Politics Thread: Silicon Valley Edition

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

There is no reason and ID should be hard to get. Especially if you have had one at one point. In fact there is no reason it should require travel farther than the nearest post office, UPS store, or even any public office or even notary. It should be no harder than putting a stamp on an envelope or signing into a web site.

But it isn't that easy and we're talking about what is. An ID requirement would be completely different if it was something that took minutes in a convienent location and was free, but when it's far away, open during hours when you or your driver will be at work, and costs maybe a week of grocieres for some people it is a different story.

[Chilloutman]

 

There is no reason and ID should be hard to get. Especially if you have had one at one point. In fact there is no reason it should require travel farther than the nearest post office, UPS store, or even any public office or even notary. It should be no harder than putting a stamp on an envelope or signing into a web site.

But it isn't that easy and we're talking about what is. An ID requirement would be completely different if it was something that took minutes in a convienent location and was free, but when it's far away, open during hours when you or your driver will be at work, and costs maybe a week of grocieres for some people it is a different story.

 

 

Yeah, I would cancel paying taxes, all that arbitrary work around it and stuff. Also working for money is hussle as well, can I just get the money?

[Gfted1]

$20 for ID, $10 if you're under 18.

 

Its cheaper than the monthly internet connection used to whine about it, and lasts 5 years. So I guess all we can complain about now is the 1000 miles these people must live from the nearest office?

[Malcador]

There is no reason and ID should be hard to get. Especially if you have had one at one point. In fact there is no reason it should require travel farther than the nearest post office, UPS store, or even any public office or even notary. It should be no harder than putting a stamp on an envelope or signing into a web site.

 

I think that is the end point to the problem at hand.  Good start would be pushing to make sure all those old documents and stuff like birth certificates that are paper only in some folder someplace are transferred to a digital format.   But that'd cost money

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

There is no reason and ID should be hard to get. Especially if you have had one at one point. In fact there is no reason it should require travel farther than the nearest post office, UPS store, or even any public office or even notary. It should be no harder than putting a stamp on an envelope or signing into a web site.

 

But it isn't that easy and we're talking about what is. An ID requirement would be completely different if it was something that took minutes in a convienent location and was free, but when it's far away, open during hours when you or your driver will be at work, and costs maybe a week of grocieres for some people it is a different story.

Yeah, I would cancel paying taxes, all that arbitrary work around it and stuff. Also working for money is hussle as well, can I just get the money?

Unfortunatly these people already work and pay taxes. Edited December 15, 2017 by KaineParker

[Ben No.3]

Talking about voting, if nationals living abroad get to vote, long term immigrants should too.

[Hurlshort]

Honestly I'd say dealing with the DMV is a much bigger issue than the actual monetary cost when it comes to ID's. I agree with GD though, on a national level the idea of voter fraud is really just a distraction. We have auditing agencies that check on this stuff. 

[Malcador]

Yeah, I would cancel paying taxes, all that arbitrary work around it and stuff. Also working for money is hussle as well, can I just get the money?

Think he's taking about unreasonable hurdles. Not quite sure it is common, but was some examples of people's birth county office having their papers needed to get their ID being far away and also having some slacker hours like 11 - 3 or something. No big deal for me, but some people lack that freedom.

 

Just boils down to making sure everyone can easily meet a requirement when you make it so.

[injurai]

Talking about voting, if nationals living abroad get to vote, long term immigrants should too.

 

Doesn't this more have to do with one's citizenry? If your an ex-pat your not getting all the benefits of your new home country, so you rely on your connections to your home country.

 

Long term immigrants should be applying for citizenship, and then you have everything squared away. We just need to better facilitate that process, but I think we still need citizenry as the baseline.

[Malcador]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUvNVR90bFM

 

Rough interview.

[Ben No.3]

 

Talking about voting, if nationals living abroad get to vote, long term immigrants should too.

Doesn't this more have to do with one's citizenry? If your an ex-pat your not getting all the benefits of your new home country, so you rely on your connections to your home country.

 

Long term immigrants should be applying for citizenship, and then you have everything squared away. We just need to better facilitate that process, but I think we still need citizenry as the baseline.

Problem with that is that getting a citizenship can be quite expensive; and even if it isn’t, future government could make it expensive, or perhaps only give it to those born in the country.

[injurai]

 

 

Talking about voting, if nationals living abroad get to vote, long term immigrants should too.

Doesn't this more have to do with one's citizenry? If your an ex-pat your not getting all the benefits of your new home country, so you rely on your connections to your home country.

 

Long term immigrants should be applying for citizenship, and then you have everything squared away. We just need to better facilitate that process, but I think we still need citizenry as the baseline.

Problem with that is that getting a citizenship can be quite expensive; and even if it isn’t, future government could make it expensive, or perhaps only give it to those born in the country.

 

 

Future governments always either giveth or taketh away, I don't think that is an argument to dispense with the pursuit of a properly laid out system.

[Ben No.3]

 

 

 

Talking about voting, if nationals living abroad get to vote, long term immigrants should too.

Doesn't this more have to do with one's citizenry? If your an ex-pat your not getting all the benefits of your new home country, so you rely on your connections to your home country.

 

Long term immigrants should be applying for citizenship, and then you have everything squared away. We just need to better facilitate that process, but I think we still need citizenry as the baseline.

Problem with that is that getting a citizenship can be quite expensive; and even if it isn’t, future government could make it expensive, or perhaps only give it to those born in the country.

Future governments always either giveth or taketh away, I don't think that is an argument to dispense with the pursuit of a properly laid out system.

a proper system is only proper if it’s difficult to break. Giving immigrants voting rights can act as a sort of safeguard Edited December 15, 2017 by Ben No.3

[Gfted1]

$20 ID cost / 5 years = $4.00 / year

$4.00 / 365 days in a year = 1.1 cent per day

Getting to the DMV = literally impossible

 

Scrap the system! "The government" is screwing those people. Anyone who wanders up can vote.

[injurai]

Might as well dispense with a lot of our systems, seeing as they are easily broken on the time scale of political office. I don't see what giving non-citizen immigrants voting rights would accomplish as a safeguard against the fundamental ebb and flow of politics. They won't offer any greater solid ground under America than what can already be given or taken out from under American citizens.

[Guard Dog]

It's ironic isn't it? The same people who think it's OK to force people to give up private property without fair compensation, buy health insurance plans they don't need or can't afford, or beg permission from the State to enjoy a Constitutionally guaranteed right, think it's too much of a burden to ask people to show an ID card to make sure the voter is who they say they are.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Guard Dog

[ShadySands]

I don't think it hits all that many people but the people that it does affect are disproportionately left leaning. I mean look at that article I posted about Texas, a concealed carry license was a valid form of ID but a student ID wasn't. I think we can guess which way those voters will likely lean.

 

Getting an ID isn't a herculean task for the vast majority of people but those that will have the most trouble from voter ID laws will tend to be from very specific demographics. 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

It's ironic isn't it? The same people who think it's OK to force people to give up private property without fair compensation, buy health insurance plans they don't need or can't afford, or beg permission from the State to enjoy a Constitutionally guaranteed right, think it's too much of a burden to ask people to show an ID card to make sure the voter is who they say they are.

It's ironic that a libertarian would think the government charging someone is a good thing, but it seems irony is common these days.

[Guard Dog]

I don't think it hits all that many people but the people that it does affect are disproportionately left leaning. I mean look at that article I posted about Texas, a concealed carry license was a valid form of ID but a student ID wasn't. I think we can guess which way those voters will likely lean.

 

Getting an ID isn't a herculean task for the vast majority of people but those that will have the most trouble from voter ID laws will tend to be from very specific demographics. 

See that makes no sense to me. There is no good reason a student ID, or even a library card would not suffice. You don't need to prove residency, You've already done that when registering to vote. The only thing they should have to prove is that the name on their ID and the name on the ballot are the same.

[Malcador]

It's ironic isn't it? The same people who think it's OK to force people to give up private property without fair compensation, buy health insurance plans they don't need or can't afford, or beg permission from the State to enjoy a Constitutionally guaranteed right, think it's too much of a burden to ask people to show an ID card to make sure the voter is who they say they are.

I always love statements like this, the grouping on one side is always so massive

Edited December 15, 2017 by Malcador

[Guard Dog]

 

It's ironic isn't it? The same people who think it's OK to force people to give up private property without fair compensation, buy health insurance plans they don't need or can't afford, or beg permission from the State to enjoy a Constitutionally guaranteed right, think it's too much of a burden to ask people to show an ID card to make sure the voter is who they say they are.

It's ironic that a libertarian would think the government charging someone is a good thing, but it seems irony is common these days.

 

I didn't say they should be charged. I just find it ironic that the left leaning folks who have no problem imposing the indignities of a heavy handed government on people waffle on this one minor thing. After all if you think the government should be our God and master in all other things why not this too?

[Amentep]

 

I don't think it hits all that many people but the people that it does affect are disproportionately left leaning. I mean look at that article I posted about Texas, a concealed carry license was a valid form of ID but a student ID wasn't. I think we can guess which way those voters will likely lean.

 

Getting an ID isn't a herculean task for the vast majority of people but those that will have the most trouble from voter ID laws will tend to be from very specific demographics. 

See that makes no sense to me. There is no good reason a student ID, or even a library card would not suffice. You don't need to prove residency, You've already done that when registering to vote. The only thing they should have to prove is that the name on their ID and the name on the ballot are the same.

 

 

If you're really going to want to check a photo ID for accuracy, you'd actually want a photo ID that also contained a signature, that you'd check and match against the signature of the voter when they sign in as well as checking for signs of tampering or just being unauthentic. 

 

Most student ID's don't seem to be that difficult to mimic if one has the right equipment.

[Guard Dog]

 

 

I don't think it hits all that many people but the people that it does affect are disproportionately left leaning. I mean look at that article I posted about Texas, a concealed carry license was a valid form of ID but a student ID wasn't. I think we can guess which way those voters will likely lean.

 

Getting an ID isn't a herculean task for the vast majority of people but those that will have the most trouble from voter ID laws will tend to be from very specific demographics. 

See that makes no sense to me. There is no good reason a student ID, or even a library card would not suffice. You don't need to prove residency, You've already done that when registering to vote. The only thing they should have to prove is that the name on their ID and the name on the ballot are the same.

 

 

If you're really going to want to check a photo ID for accuracy, you'd actually want a photo ID that also contained a signature, that you'd check and match against the signature of the voter when they sign in as well as checking for signs of tampering or just being unauthentic. 

 

Most student ID's don't seem to be that difficult to mimic if one has the right equipment.

 

The road blocks to fraudulent voting don't need to be insurmountable. Like we've already discussed it would take a hell of a lot of votes to turn even a local election. Just making it a little more difficult than just walking in and stealing a ballot should be sufficient.

[injurai]

MICROCHIP

MICROCHIP

MICROCHIP

 

BRING ON THE MARK

 

   666

666 666

[Epaminondas]

If your state can't guarantee within reasonable bounds easy access to an ID card for citizens in good standing while protecting the public trust, then you shouldn't be railing against voter ID laws. You should be railing against your state's DMV or whoever issues them.

 

There might be some people who have a more difficult time, that's true, but that difficulty shouldn't be insurmountable. The student ID is different. I can see using student IDs in specific cases, but ideally out of state students should vote absentee in their home of record. There must be people who've served in the military here and that's standard practice for them.