Political Ocean's 11

[Ben No.3]

"The only problem I see is an overreaction from the Trump administration. I wouldn’t be a fan of systematic oppression of muslims for being unamerican. "

 

An extremist muslim goes on a rampage and... you worry about other muslims being targeted by Amerikans not the fact that another extremist Muslim might follow suit...

 

I'll say what I always say. No matter the excuse, punks like this are pure trash.

I have a high degree in trust in the US state apparatus when it comes to surveillance

[injurai]

Event.

 

Speak to event.

 

Speak to those speaking to event.

 

Speak to those speaking to those speaking to event.

 

...

 

Declare you're not going to engage in what everyone else is engaging in.

 

Speak about other's declaring that they're not going to engage in what everyone else is engaging in.

 

...

 

Event.

[Guard Dog]

So the House tax plan is coming out today. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/house-tax-plan-lowers-caps-401k-cuts-state/story?id=50861872

 

They are eliminating State Income Tax deductions and capping tax free 401k contributions at $2400 annually. This is a steaming pile of oily b------t. So in exchange for a 1-3% rate decrease they are going to eliminate the deductions people count on and dis-incentivize retirement savings. In the end people in the middle brackets end up paying MORE in taxes after their tax cut. Especially folks whose states take a great big bloody bite out of whatever is left when the Federal Government is done feasting. So the Republicans passed their budget a few weeks ago with more spending than Obama and now they are giving us a tax cut that means we pay more in taxes. Someone please explain to me the difference between Democlins and Republicrats again? Taxes go up, spending goes up, and now we have combat troops in 138 of 204 sovereign states.

 

It does not HAVE to be this way you know: https://www.lp.org/

[Malcador]

That is ridiculously low. Is it currently a percentage of income?

[Guard Dog]

That is ridiculously low. Is it currently a percentage of income?

For Federal Income tax there are seven brackets that go from 10% to 40%. Your adjusted gross income (income after deductions) determines what bracket you fall in. If your adjusted gross income is under a certain number (I think it's $15k not sure) you pay nothing. The Republicans plan to lover the rates you pay for each bracket but eliminate the deductions that can put you in a lower bracket. So for example if you are in the 25% bracket and get a 2% rate cut but the deductions you lose bump you up to the 28% bracket that 2% cut has you paying 26% where you were paying 25% before. And your 401k gets capped for your trouble.

 

This is a simplified example but you get the idea.

[Malcador]

Meant for 401k contributions, sorry. Our retirement savings plan is lower of 18% income or 25k or so (ignoring room carried over).

[Pidesco]

So the House tax plan is coming out today. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/house-tax-plan-lowers-caps-401k-cuts-state/story?id=50861872

 

They are eliminating State Income Tax deductions and capping tax free 401k contributions at $2400 annually. This is a steaming pile of oily b------t. So in exchange for a 1-3% rate decrease they are going to eliminate the deductions people count on and dis-incentivize retirement savings. In the end people in the middle brackets end up paying MORE in taxes after their tax cut. Especially folks whose states take a great big bloody bite out of whatever is left when the Federal Government is done feasting. So the Republicans passed their budget a few weeks ago with more spending than Obama and now they are giving us a tax cut that means we pay more in taxes. Someone please explain to me the difference between Democlins and Republicrats again? Taxes go up, spending goes up, and now we have combat troops in 138 of 204 sovereign states.

 

It does not HAVE to be this way you know: https://www.lp.org/

 

I was under the impression that tax plan has a very low likelihood of passing the Senate.

[Guard Dog]

The Senate is working on their own plan that has alot of the same bad ideas. What I'm not hearing from either is "Maybe we're spending too much of other people's money"

 

Don't expect I will either. Not as long as we get the no-choice choice of Democrats & Republicans.

[Ben No.3]

Wait, the US top bracket is only 40%?

[Hurlshort]

Only? You are giving 40% of your salary to the government. After state taxes it could be over half your salary, depending on where you live.

[ShadySands]

Also, you have to recognize that we don't get the same benefits and services from our government

[Pidesco]

The Senate is working on their own plan that has alot of the same bad ideas. What I'm not hearing from either is "Maybe we're spending too much of other people's money"

 

Don't expect I will either. Not as long as we get the no-choice choice of Democrats & Republicans.

 

I'd argue the right thing to worry about is how the money is spent more than how much money is spent.

 

 

Only? You are giving 40% of your salary to the government. After state taxes it could be over half your salary, depending on where you live.

 

http://federal-tax-rates.insidegov.com/l/40/1955

An age of prosperity, growth and conservative dreams! Somehow I don't think it's due to the taxes American conservatives long for the 50s. It has probably more to do with certain social conditions at the time.

 

 

I think 40% is the lowest top federal tax bracket in the history of the US. Also don't confuse the top rate with the overall rate. The top bracket can be 95% and taxes can still be low.

[Guard Dog]

Yeah that's just federal income tax. After they are done with you the state gets a bite in all but 11 states. And they also tax your property, retail purchases, your cars, your pets, your businesses, and God help you if you invested any of your money and made a profit from it. Capital Gains Tax. Now there is a real f-----g. And then when you die if it's over a certain dollar value the Government swoops in and takes half. A tax payer of average means could EASILY be paying half of every dollar they earn.

 

We went to war with the most powerful nation on earth over what was really a 5% sales tax (in modern terms). What the hell happened these last 241 years???

[Guard Dog]

 

The Senate is working on their own plan that has alot of the same bad ideas. What I'm not hearing from either is "Maybe we're spending too much of other people's money"

 

Don't expect I will either. Not as long as we get the no-choice choice of Democrats & Republicans.

 

I'd argue the right thing to worry about is how the money is spent more than how much money is spent.

 

No it's both. We are paying for a whole lot of s--t that the federal government has no business doing, supporting, or being involved in.

[ShadySands]

[ShadySands]

Don't forget local income taxes on top of federal and state. That was a pleasant surprise when I lived in NYC.

Edited November 2, 2017 by ShadySands

[Gfted1]

Glad to see that you didnt die in the Denver Wal-Mart shooting, Shady.

[Ben No.3]

 

Only? You are giving 40% of your salary to the government. After state taxes it could be over half your salary, depending on where you live.

Yes, only. We are from EU, 40% is in the lower ends of our taxes.

which is entirely reasonable. In the pre Regan/Thatcher era, income taxes were usually around 60-70% in the western world, and many countries used to have things like taxes in wealth.

 

We are consumer economies, and therefore, we need a large mass of consumers capable of consuming. Yet, we allow capital to further centralise in fewer hands. Instead of taxing those hands harshly, our governments need to cut spending and take on debt, most likely Both. At the end of the day, we have a huge amount of public debt and a huge amount of idle cash in the form of private wealth; but of course, wealth is really a societal product. So higher taxes than 40% seem reasonable?

[ShadySands]

I don't know about your EU taxes, are you also subject to a marginal tax rate or do you pay 103% on the whole thing?

 

I guess it varies by country

Edited November 2, 2017 by ShadySands

[Guard Dog]

One thing I do like is the reduction on the corporate rate from 35% to 20%. I'd rather it were 0% but a big drop is a good thing.

[ShadySands]

Inside Hillary Clinton’s Secret Takeover of the DNC - When I was asked to run the Democratic Party after the Russians hacked our emails, I stumbled onto a shocking truth about the Clinton campaign.

[Volourn]

"only 40%? "

 

L0L

 

Holy hell.

 

'only'

 

 

WE HAVE A LIVE ONE HERE, FOLKS.

 

 

 

O.N.L.Y.   

[ShadySands]

According to Wikipedia (I know, I know) the top income tax rate in Germany is 45% and is a marginal tax rate

 

No income tax is charged on the basic allowance, which is €8,354 for unmarried persons and €16,708 for jointly assessed married couples. Beyond this threshold, the marginal tax rate increases linearly from 14% to 24% for a taxable income of €13,469 (€26,938 for married couples). In the subsequent interval up to a taxable income of €52,881 (€105,762 for married couples), the marginal tax rate increases linearly from 24% to 42%. The last change of rates occurs at a taxable income of €250,730 (€501,460 for married couples) when the marginal tax rate jumps from 42% to 45%. The course of the marginal tax rate and the resulting average tax rate are depicted in the graph to the right.

Edited November 2, 2017 by ShadySands

[Darkpriest]

 

I don't know about your EU taxes, are you also subject to a marginal tax rate or do you pay 103% on the whole thing?

 

I guess it varies by country

Let me summarize this way:

 

1. My company made a profit which I must pay tax.

2. I pay myself from that money and I need to pay tax + healthcare + social.

3. When I buy something from the money left I need to pay VAT (value added tax) on everything I buy.

4. Some underage schmuck who lives with his parents tells me I don't pay enough.

 

 

 

You forgot about indirect taxes such as excise in fuel, or various other charges hidden in cost price of products you buy and services you pay for.

 

Not sure how exactly this thing is calculated ("Liberty from tax day") but it shows that on average Polish citizen pays in tax charges over 50% of their total income (the day was on June 9th in 2017) in US it is something like end of April so not that bad in comparison, around 32%

 

Important note, that it shows average so middle class people (who for some reason are treated as rich bastards) get taxed at least 10% more and the middle class is still considered to earn barely above US minimum wages - like 22k USD a year.)

 

A person straight out of college can earn 38k quid a year in London and is considered as rather poor.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Darkpriest

[Guard Dog]

 

Inside Hillary Clinton’s Secret Takeover of the DNC - When I was asked to run the Democratic Party after the Russians hacked our emails, I stumbled onto a shocking truth about the Clinton campaign.

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Wow... And we wonder how the hell the country could be over $20T in debt and running a 10 year spending deficit of more than 4% of GDP. The people running it can't even balance their own party budgets.

 

This. This just sticks out to me:

 

I urged Bernie to work as hard as he could to bring his supporters into the fold with Hillary, and to campaign with all the heart and hope he could muster. He might find some of her positions too centrist, and her coziness with the financial elites distasteful, but he knew and I knew that the alternative was a person who would put the very future of the country in peril. I knew he heard me. I knew he agreed with me, but I never in my life had felt so tiny and powerless as I did making that call.

 

This is why this two party death trap we are in MUST end. We must accept and vote for an unacceptable and corrupt candidate  because the alternative is an unacceptable and corrupt candidate? When you choose the lesser evil you are still choosing evil. And the real tragedy is it does not have to be this way!

Edited November 2, 2017 by Guard Dog