Politics 2017 part V

[Gromnir]

I don't actually have a preference for a wall, I was just making a binary choice between "wall vs bottomless hole of societal problem fixing".

 

 

if is binary choice, then might need recharacterize as wall is a similar dollar sink given projected long term maintenance and patrol costs.  

 

http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/usa/

 

with mexico being one o' the two most common destinations for US goods, helping to create a strong mexican economy has obvious benefits beyond decrease in illegal immigration.  is folks who would argue investing in post war japan were a mistake, but such voices is outliers.  investment in rebuilding japan results in a modern and stable democracy in asia as well as creating a valuable trading partner.  similarly, fail to help russia rebuild after the cold war strikes us as a clear mistake even though the cost woulda' been difficult for the american public to accept.  aid mexico would have far less cost than rebuild russia or japan, but the benefits would actual be noticeable more immediate as well as providing more significant long term benefits. 

 

again, am not suggesting pursuit o' a program o' long-term and concentrated infrastructure development in mexico.  political suicide for any suggesting such a thing, particular with our domestic infrastructure needs.  even so, am recognizing how aid to mexico would not be a bottomless hole but a potential lucrative investment... more so than a wall.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Leferd]

White House: Removing Comey will help bring Russia investigation to end

 

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/11/politics/comey-fbi-investigation-russia-sarah-huckabee-sanders/

 

Well, atleast they admit it.

[Bartimaeus]

Meanwhile, acting director of FBI says that the investigation will continue...but that the White House will not not be kept in the loop.

[HoonDing]

Trump's word is law.

[Amentep]

Iyo, the lifetime costs to dealing with Mexico's "societal problems", the very same problems that Mexico itself cant fix, would be less than the one time cost of a wall?

 

To be fair though, there is no 'one time cost of a wall'. Once built, it'll have to be maintained just like any other structure or it'll fall apart eventually due to weather, seismic events, etc..

 

EDIT: took so long to respond I was beaten to it.  For shame.

[Gromnir]

gotta feel sympathy for spicer and huckabee sanders.

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/analysis-president-trump-just-decimated-the-white-house%E2%80%99s-entire-comey-narrative/ar-BBB1kge?li=AA5a8k&ocid=spartanntp

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Hurlshort]

 

You're living in a fantasy world. 

 

 

Yes, that's already been established.  Try to keep up!

[Elerond]

 

 

Id rather not squander resources treating other countries societal problems. Give a choice between that and a wall, I choose the wall. Not that that will work either without drone swarms.

so, squandering billions of dollars on an ineffectual wall is ok?  unforgiving terrain, rivers and private property make a secure border near impossible

 

China probably didn't get the memo

 

 

Great Wall of China is great example of putting lots of resources in ineffectual wall that failed to make their borders safe.

[Malcador]

 

Eventually you'll try prevention

for few seconds I was confused as I read it as perversion...

You do that, not try.

[Hurlshort]

 

 

Eventually you'll try prevention

for few seconds I was confused as I read it as perversion...

You do that, not try.

 

 

What if it was just once in college?

[Wrath of Dagon]

Great Wall of China actually worked great for a very long time. China fell through betrayal, not because the wall was breached. Much like we're daily betrayed by our own government.

 

Edit:

 

Iyo, the lifetime costs to dealing with Mexico's "societal problems", the very same problems that Mexico itself cant fix, would be less than the one time cost of a wall?

 

To be fair though, there is no 'one time cost of a wall'. Once built, it'll have to be maintained just like any other structure or it'll fall apart eventually due to weather, seismic events, etc..

 

EDIT: took so long to respond I was beaten to it.  For shame.

 

Would be dwarfed by the cost savings in manpower needed to patrol a wall instead of open space. And the cost of the wall and its maintenance are dwarfed by what illegal aliens are costing us now. Edited May 11, 2017 by Wrath of Dagon

[HoonDing]

Mongols passed the Great Wall and made China great again.

Mexicans will do the same.

[Volourn]

 wE KNOW mexicans ar egreta at making countries greta - it explains why so many of them flee Mexico. Mexicans know that Mexico sucks hence why they are desperate to become Amerikans. Amerika > Mexico. PERIOD.

[injurai]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D10mHOqSfd8

 

The music, Joe's reaction, everything.

 

What a shame.

[Elerond]

Great Wall of China actually worked great for a very long time. China fell through betrayal, not because the wall was breached. Much like we're daily betrayed by our own government.

 

 

It didn't prevent Oirats getting defending Ming army's or did it prevent Mongol raiding parties looting settlements in Ming's empire, although after defeat for Oirats Ming dynasty build more heavily fortified wall in some areas, with lots of watch towers build all over it to give warnings about approaching raiding parties as Mongols continued to raid Ming settlements. Although when Manchu invasions that began in early 1600s, it let Ming troops held invasion forces reaching Chinese heartland. But efforts to held invasion forces demanded lots of troops which left capital city Beijing weak and which gave opportunity for rebel leader Li Zicheng and his troops to take control over it. This lead Ming general Wu Sangui to ally with Manchu forces and let them through in hopes that they take Beijing back from the rebels, which they did, but they then established their own ruling dynasty Qing, which lead to Chinese expansion beyond the wall and annexation of Mongolia. And the Great Wall was discontinued, although then Qing empire build their own wall Willow Palisade, which was not meant for defense but for migration control, in sense that Qing dynasty tried to prevent Han Chinese settling in Manchu and Mongol lands and in no man lands in near Korean border. Their palisades system failed to prevent Han migration and official constantly lamented how system don't prevent illegal migrants and eventually whole palisade system become just tax collection system (people that passed through the gates had to pay taxes) which was ended in 1920.

[Gromnir]

 wE KNOW mexicans ar egreta at making countries greta - it explains why so many of them flee Mexico. Mexicans know that Mexico sucks hence why they are desperate to become Amerikans. Amerika > Mexico. PERIOD.

sadly, such simple reasoning would lead to the conclusion o' mexico>USA.

 

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016/01/05/more-mexicans-leave-the-us-than-come-across-the-border

 

obviously the issues ain't as simple as vol believes, but for many mexican immigrants to the USA, illegal or otherwise, mexico has become an increasing attractive option. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Hurlshort]

Oddly enough, I interviewed a brewer in Ensenata who grew up in San Diego and had recently moved his whole family to Mexico for the business. There are also a lot of Americans who buy land in Mexico, slowly build houses on it, and then retire there.

 

The whole us vs. them mentality people like to have with Mexico is bizarre. As Trump said, half a trillion in trade every year and 1 million people cross that border every day. 

[Volourn]

 So mexicans go back to Mexico? *shrug* Bottom line Mexicans have fled Mexico in droves. The fact some have gone back doesn't disprove the fact that many Mexcians flee Mexico because they think Mexico is a horrible country to live in. that ain't my opinion. I never lived in mexico so I don't have experience on how bad or good it is to live there. but, Mexicans fleeing Mexico, make that statement by the very fact they flee. And, risk death and posisbly prison to do so, says a lot. Don't blame me for Mexicans' making that decision.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Volourn

[Gromnir]

 So mexicans go back to Mexico? *shrug* Bottom line Mexicans have fled Mexico in droves. The fact some have gone back doesn't disprove the fact that many Mexcians flee Mexico because they think Mexico is a horrible country to live in. that ain't my opinion. I never lived in mexico so I don't have experience on how bad or good it is to live there. but, Mexicans fleeing Mexico, make that statement by the very fact they flee. And, risk death and posisbly prison to do so, says a lot. Don't blame me for Mexicans' making that decision.

...

 

more mexicans is "fleeing" the USA than is fleeing mexico. am not certain where is vol's confusion on this matter. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Hurlshort]

Don't we have a bunch of Canadiens who move to the US? I have like 8 on my hockey team.

[injurai]

Don't we have a bunch of Canadiens who move to the US? I have like 8 on my hockey team.

 

Are they from Minnesota?

[Hurlshort]

Uh, no, they are from Canada. Toronto area, for the most part.

[Malcador]

Uh, no, they are from Canada. Toronto area, for the most part.

They must be total **** then

[Valsuelm]

He'd fire all Congress if he could.

Firing is better than most of them deserve.

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

wE KNOW mexicans ar egreta at making countries greta - it explains why so many of them flee Mexico. Mexicans know that Mexico sucks hence why they are desperate to become Amerikans. Amerika > Mexico. PERIOD.

sadly, such simple reasoning would lead to the conclusion o' mexico>USA.

 

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016/01/05/more-mexicans-leave-the-us-than-come-across-the-border

 

obviously the issues ain't as simple as vol believes, but for many mexican immigrants to the USA, illegal or otherwise, mexico has become an increasing attractive option. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Fake news straw man. Trump didn't say anything about "net Mexican migration". The professor is putting words in his mouth, then claiming Trump is wrong. Plus the author is obviously an open borders advocate, and left leaning Pew studies are always suspect. It's also notable that they chose the period of the worst US economy for their study, when many people lost their jobs and had to move back to Mexico where cost of living is much less.

 

Edit: US takes 1 million permanent immigrants each year and 20% of all the world migrants, yet even people who qualify to immigrate in Mexico have to wait 20 years!

For example, married children of U.S. citizens from Mexico must wait more than 20 years for a visa to become available, and Filipino siblings of U.S. citizens currently wait about 25 years.

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/why-don’t-they-just-get-line So yeah, no one wants to come here! Edited May 12, 2017 by Wrath of Dagon