List of Subclasses as we learn about them.

[Osvir]

 

Also a fighter sub class called the devoted - dedicated to specific weapon

I wonder if that is a specific weapon class or just one weapon and ONLY that weapon, kind of like a soulbound weapon.

That sounds pretty cool actually. Maybe they could have a unique ability that can only be used once in the game.

 

"Soulbind", which makes any common weapon "Soulbound" and can level up with the Class (0 enchantments, with the exception of common "Fine" and better).

 

Reasoning? To make the Player find a weapon early and use the ability, instead of holding onto it all game and using it before the last boss.

 

But it does make me wonder, do we get to equip our character during Character Creation? Because in that case, the Devoted could get a Soulbound weapon chosen straight away.

 

Edit: Maybe have some talents that directly affects the Devoted Weapon? Like Ranger has Merciless Companion, Devoted could have Merciless Graze/Blade/Strike or similar?

Edited July 13, 2017 by Osvir

[MaxQuest]

Also a fighter sub class called the devoted - dedicated to specific weapon

That sounds great. Most of the time, builds are tinkered around specific weapon anyway. 

 

I'd like to know through, if we'll be able to choose a different weapon on respec... or the game will prevent such 'multi-devotion'.

 

---

It was also mentioned that there will be a 'shadow pillar' monk (if I heard it right, around ~35:20), who will get wounds when dealing damage (not when taking it). It has the trade-off of lower wounds-max, and lower wounds threshold.

 

Edit: it's Shattered Pillar.

Edited July 13, 2017 by MaxQuest

[Osvir]

He could also be a variant of nature godlike which is adapted to the sea. We know he's a godlike, just not what kind. Heck, his quest might involve finding out the nature of his godlike form.

Possibly Galawain Godlike. Sharks are hunters, no? In the stream I believe Dimitri and Josh* both heavily implied he would be a new Godlike (non-playable). We know that Moon Godlike is playable.

 

*41:28~42:05 (About new Godlike and Takehu)

 

Transcript:

Q: Will there be more varieties of Godlike in Deadfire? Godlike Wael, Galawain, or Ondra.

Josh: Well, there's at least one.

Dimitri: Yeah, not as playable characters.

Josh: Correct. They are not Godlike playable characters.

Dimitri: Right.

Josh: Although, all of them (he's refering to existing playable Godlikes) have been remodeled.

Dimitri: Right, so they are kinda new.

Josh: But then there's Takehu. Takehu is one of our new companion and he is a unique Godlike.

/Transcript end

 

Then there's the question of the moon shaped ring on his forehead, which is a mark of Ondra (except without the headpiece/horn thing, I speculated in the past that his Moon Godlike crown/headpiece had been cut off, as to either conceal his godlike status, or him being part of some Huana caste where they do that. It can also be white paint).

 

Makes me wonder if Takehu is a mixed child, Galawain/Ondra. If that's even possible (would be interesting, half Galawain half Ondra). He's either Druid or Chanter right? Druid could imply his Galawain roots (maybe he has a Shark Spiritshift) and Chanter more of an Ondra aspect? Maybe he is a Dual-Class from the get-go? (Josh mentioned in the stream that "some characters won't get a choice, like Maia, she's always a Ranger when you get her and she doesn't have a second choice, neither does Pallegina. Thus far it seems only Edér, Rogue or Fighter, and Serafan, Cipher or Barbarian, gets a choice).

 

Reading about Ondra and Moon Godlike on Wiki, there's a possibility that Takehu is "Water Godlike" instead of "Moon Godlike" as well.

 

http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Godlike

"While their skin tone and a large moon-like growth on their foreheads may be strange to some"

- Whilst Takehu is blue (like Moon Godlikes) he just doesn't have that "glow" about him, or that growth on the forehead. It doesn't add up.

 

"They have physical properties associating them with the moon and water, which are both aspects of Ondra."

- And if he doesn't have the physical properties of the "Moon" Godlike aspect of Ondra, then there's only "Water" left.

 

On Galawain:

http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Galawain

In his portfolio he has "Predatory Beasts" listed (Sharks are predatory)

 

EDIT: Great White Sharks are amazing hunters

https://www.sharksider.com/great-white-sharks-amazing-hunters/

 

And may I spot the final observation, look at Takehu's mouth area, then look at this Shark's mouth (well, the entire underside/stomach) area. See how the color goes in line very similarly between both of them? If you also look at Takehu's right arm (mirrored) you see his forearm (frontside of arm) being darker blue, and on his left arm (mirrored) you can see that it is paler (backside/underside of arm). He also has a darker blue on his shoulders going backwards, compared to his paler/lighter blue on his torso. Same with his hip area compared to the center stomach.

 

His blue skin could simply be explained as "Coastal Aumaua". Deceptive, because it is at first glance associated with the Moon Godlike.

 

I believe we have ourselves a Galawain Godlike.

 

Short version:

- Galawain: Shark (Hunter, Predator). His skin tone, darker and paler. If the necklace is ivory, then without a doubt Takehu is Galawain's child. Druid Class choice. (Italic in quote are notes~)

Galawain is patron of the hunt in all its forms (ALL of them), and he is honored by those whose occupations are concerned with pursuit and discovery (why does Takehu join the Watcher? Sailing the world/Deadfire, much association to historical Discovery). His faithful include frontiersmen, constables, treasure-seekers, explorers, and even scholars, many of whom wear his carved symbol – a dog's head (usually made of ivory) – around their wrist or neck (What is that neck thing Takehu wears made of?). He is also protector of wild places and untamed wilderness, where the hunt manifests in its purest form as a daily struggle for survival. (A) The ocean is an untamed wilderness, B) hunt, pure, daily struggle, survival, 'nuff said)

 

Added:

- Slight possibility that he's a Wael Godlike because of this one thing: All these questions and speculations man!!!! It's a mystery!

Edited July 13, 2017 by Osvir

[MortyTheGobbo]

 

Also a fighter sub class called the devoted - dedicated to specific weapon

That sounds great. Most of the time, builds are tinkered around specific weapon anyway.

 

This actually makes me wonder. What drawbacks will this subclass have? Not being able to use any other weapon category, or weapon period, isn't that much of a penalty, since like you said, most characters will pick something and stick with it.

[MaxQuest]

This actually makes me wonder. What drawbacks will this subclass have? Not being able to use any other weapon category, or weapon period, isn't that much of a penalty, since like you said, most characters will pick something and stick with it.

Black Jacket has the drawback of lower accuracy.

 

Devoted could have drawback of:

- losing the unique bonuses he has (until resting), once he equips any other weapon; or

- simply getting a damage penalty with other weapons; or

- inability to use/profit from specializations with other weapons and related modals

[injurai]

Yeah, I thought he was going to be a "water godlike" too. But the Galawain theory is neat too.

[smjjames]

It's certainly possible that he's a child of Galawain, yeah.

[Osvir]

Last off-topic post here for me:


Even the "Hunt a god" fits with Galawain. Makes sense to have a character born of the "Lord of the Hunt" introduced to the party composition considering the plot.

 

 

This actually makes me wonder. What drawbacks will this subclass have? Not being able to use any other weapon category, or weapon period, isn't that much of a penalty, since like you said, most characters will pick something and stick with it.

Black Jacket has the drawback of lower accuracy.

Devoted could have drawback of:
- losing the unique bonuses he has (until resting), once he equips any other weapon; or
- simply getting a damage penalty with other weapons; or
- inability to use/profit from specializations with other weapons and related modals

Forced One-Handed or Two-Handed Weapon style? (No Weapon & Shield Style available)

Maybe not being able to pick "Knockdown" or most Defensive type abilities from the Fighter pool? (Defensive Modals and such*)

I see it as, well, what's the drawbacks of having an Animal Companion? The Blade/Axe/Club or whatever the Devoted picks is the sub-class' "Companion" in the same sense. All I can think of would be strong offensive skills, whilst maybe lacking in the defensive category. Still being able to wear Full Plate of course, just not having as many options with it or not being the most optimal.

An example: I built a Dragoon Barbarian build, Pike and Full Plate Armor. Not optimal, but really really strong. Had I chosen Hide Armor, Clothing, or maybe even Unarmored completely, it'd be a devastating killing machine with high damage output and low recovery. I opted not to do it because I liked the whole concept (Never leveled up to the Dragon Leap ability though ). The point: Maybe the Devoted would be most effective in Light- to Medium Armor, being up close dealing damage, but also risking the most doing so.

That's kind of how I saw and experienced the Kensai in BGTrilogy/BGEE/BG2EE, strong damage dealing Fighter with high critical strikes, but weak defensive capabilities, and an unlucky hit in a difficult encounter could bring them down to 1%-10% HP (from 100%). But when they shone they shone, and IIRC, could take out the most difficult foes themselves in a hit or two.

A bit of a double-edged sword sometimes.

Fighter Wiki page, some abilities that could fit in an offensive concept:
- Disciplined Barrage
- Confident Aim
- Fearless
- Unbending
- Clear Out
- Sundering Blow (Is it a Barbarian ability now though?)
- Charge

Not including Weapon Specialization because as I understand it it'll function differently in Deadfire.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Osvir

[MortyTheGobbo]

 

This actually makes me wonder. What drawbacks will this subclass have? Not being able to use any other weapon category, or weapon period, isn't that much of a penalty, since like you said, most characters will pick something and stick with it.

Black Jacket has the drawback of lower accuracy.

 

Devoted could have drawback of:

- losing the unique bonuses he has (until resting), once he equips any other weapon; or

- simply getting a damage penalty with other weapons; or

- inability to use/profit from specializations with other weapons and related modals

 

 

Those make sense, but my point is that they're too easily mitigated by just... never switching your weapon. Which is inconvenient if you want to open a combat with an arbalest/arquebus shot, or run into enemies who resist your damage type, but not overly so. Of course, Deadfire might put more emphasis on using a variety of weapons.

[MaxQuest]

Those make sense, but my point is that they're too easily mitigated by just... never switching your weapon. Which is inconvenient if you want to open a combat with an arbalest/arquebus shot, or run into enemies who resist your damage type, but not overly so. Of course, Deadfire might put more emphasis on using a variety of weapons.

Understood. Iirc it was told that a plyer can choose not to pick a subclass if he wants to?

If yes, then indeed a generic fighter should be somewhat competitive with the devoted.

 

Josh told that this subclass was partially inspired by the Kensai kit. I guess Devoted could share some of it's downsides, like:

- inability to wear heavy armors, or

- just a plain malus to DR; or

- inability to wear armor at all, but get some scaling DR or deflection + reflex bonus to compensate, or

- lower hp per level

- or like Osvir mentioned: restricted from using/taking some of fighters defensive modals or abilities; or

- they can't benefit from Constant Recovery

something like that

Edited July 13, 2017 by MaxQuest

[Osvir]

- they can't benefit from Constant Recovery

 

That's a good one to be honest, pretty huge drawback even. I'm guessing the Devoted is only for melee weapons? Or could ranged weapons be included as well? "I am devoted to this crossbow!". I mean, that'd be interesting in a way (Varric and Bianca from Dragon Age is good fun), but it is a Fighter sub-class after all.

 

Then again, I've always wanted a more of a typical non-animal-companion Archer type Militarized Crossbowman/Longbowman. Though, I think that falls into the Ranger category (Maybe there's going to be a non-Animal Companion Ranger Sub-Class).

Edited July 13, 2017 by Osvir

[injurai]

Ranger sans companion?

 

I guess if literally ever animal-centric ability get's replaced with something. Otherwise making a ranged fighter seems more like the sensible way to pull that off.

[smjjames]

I guess the closest to a non-animal companion is the Ghost Heart subclass. Since the animal companion requires summoning for that subclass, you can just choose not to summon it. I suppose that subclass was in mind for those who wanted to have the animal companion only be around when needed, and it could work for those who don't want to have one. It does seem a little gamey, but it would work to the same purpose as a non-animal companion ranger.

 

Though as injurai said, a lot of the rangers abilities are companion centric.

[MortyTheGobbo]

 

Those make sense, but my point is that they're too easily mitigated by just... never switching your weapon. Which is inconvenient if you want to open a combat with an arbalest/arquebus shot, or run into enemies who resist your damage type, but not overly so. Of course, Deadfire might put more emphasis on using a variety of weapons.

Understood. Iirc it was told that a plyer can choose not to pick a subclass if he wants to?

If yes, then indeed a generic fighter should be somewhat competitive with the devoted.

 

Josh told that this subclass was partially inspired by the Kensai kit. I guess Devoted could share some of it's downsides, like:

- inability to wear heavy armors, or

- just a plain malus to DR; or

- inability to wear armor at all, but get some scaling DR or deflection + reflex bonus to compensate, or

- lower hp per level

- or like Osvir mentioned: restricted from using/taking some of fighters defensive modals or abilities; or

- they can't benefit from Constant Recovery

something like that

 

 

Those would all make sense, yes. I didn't know the class was inspired by Kensai, but I'm not surprised. I plan to run a fighter/rogue with a greatsword in Deadfire. Guess the fighter half might well be Devoted. And I'm fairly sure subclasses are optional. That's why they're all supposed to be trade-offs.

 

The closest we'll likely get to petless ranger is the Ghost Heart, yes. If you want to play an archer without an animal companion, a rogue is your best bet in PoE1, assuming you don't want magic. A ranged fighter subclass could be interesting...

[Piero]

I doubt there will be restrictions in the devoted´s weapon, hope we can choose unarmed Devoted.

For the non-animal-companion i can think of a ranger that has not only his soul bounded but merged or something like that.

[Doppelschwert]

The question about the monk/kensai came from me, and it was all about being good at being unarmored, which Josh clearly denied - I don't think the kensai has any armor limits.

The kensai got turned into the Weapon Master prestige class in DnD 3.X, which doesn't care about which armor you wear either, and just gives you massive boni while using a specific type of weapon. I'm sure that this is the only aspect he meant, being particularly good at using a single weapon.

 

I think the downside will be at least about sucking at other weapons and/or getting fewer proficiencies, which, as MaxQuest already mentioned, is neglectible if you play your cards right. This is also true for the weaponmaster in DnD 3.X, as you can just carry around specifically forged versions of your weapon of choice for every situation.

 

I do hope unarmed will be available for the devoted, but I could imagine that it is not as well. I'm thinking about combining the shattered pillar and the devoted now.

[smjjames]

Well, Ranger has several non-companion based abilities that focus on ranged weapons, so, a non-companion ranger would work well as Ghost Heart and multiclassed as something else, or something else+Ghost Heart, depending on the order you want to do it.

[blotter]

I do hope unarmed will be available for the devoted, but I could imagine that it is not as well. I'm thinking about combining the shattered pillar and the devoted now.

 

I asked about unarmed proficiency a few Q&As back and Sawyer stated that it won't exist. As long as the plan for unarmed is to have specialization in it be monk-exclusive, I wouldn't expect the Devoted subclass to be able to tie their benefits to it.

 

As for the Devoted's drawbacks, it might involve limited proficiency resource progression after level one and/or raising proficiency levels at increased cost (if there's more than one level). This comes back to the issue of sidestepping the drawback by sticking with your chosen weapon, but there are several things in Deadfire that may make switching weapons very tempting at times: 1) the quality enchantment ceiling, 2) the fact that other forms of enchantment are limited to progressions along preestablished lines for the weapons you find/buy, 3) enemy damage resistances/immunities, 4) the types of weapons that are made available to us via loot or merchant stocks throughout the game, and 5) the emphasis on making such weapons more unique/distinct from each other. These can easily interact in ways that would make clinging to your one chosen weapon type situationally subpar at the very least and perhaps even generally subpar for significant stretches of the game if the particular weapon type you're devoted to doesn't turn up with enchantments that favor other aspects of your build.

 

With all that in mind, I doubt that they'll really need to implement more drawbacks on top of that; if anything, it seems like a fair bit of planning/metagaming may be required for this subclass to not run afoul of the new design philosophy for weapons/enchantments too often. If they did need to add something else, though, increasing their recovery time on attacks while wielding other weapons seems like it'd be a simple and effective, as well as a thematically appropriate way to represent awkwardness while using other weapon types.

 

I also think it's extremely unlikely that Sawyer meant that the subclass would devote itself to a single weapon as opposed to a single weapon type since a) it runs directly counter to the basic purpose behind their rehauling of the enchantment system to begin with, and b) assuming the wouldn't impose some generic soulbound progression on whatever weapon you start with, it would make the subclass even more radically dependent on knowing what you'll gain access to throughout the game, when you gain access to it, and planning your weapon devotion choice based on that, which would make it rather problematic for people who want to choose this subclass for their Watcher on their first playthrough.

Edited July 13, 2017 by blotter

[smjjames]

I also think it's extremely unlikely that Sawyer meant that the subclass would devote itself to a single weapon as opposed to a single weapon type since a) it runs directly counter to the basic purpose behind their rehauling of the enchantment system to begin with, and b) assuming the wouldn't impose some generic soulbound progression on whatever weapon you start with, it would make the subclass even more radically dependent on knowing what you'll gain access to throughout the game, when you gain access to it, and planning your weapon devotion choice based on that, which would make it rather problematic for people who want to choose this subclass for their Watcher on their first playthrough.

 

That's a really good point actually.

[draego]

https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/162955086071/hey-josh-with-the-devoted-reveal-im-wondering-if

 

Still not sure what the benefit for choosing weapon is. It seems to be implied better accuracy at least but they are not restricting other weapons just giving penalties and not allowing specializations

[smjjames]

https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/162955086071/hey-josh-with-the-devoted-reveal-im-wondering-if

 

Still not sure what the benefit for choosing weapon is. It seems to be implied better accuracy at least but they are not restricting other weapons just giving penalties and not allowing specializations

 

 

Well, the devotion IS the specialization. The idea behind it is supposed to be like 'be one with your weapon', kind of martial artist almost. Maybe it'll be enhanced weapon abilities or something, they haven't revealed the benefits yet.

[Osvir]

When I say Ranger w/o animal companion I mean the classic one for BG. Or just a stereotypical and cliche master marksman, the Elven Archer.

 

A bit dark, but Rangers resource pool is "Bonds" right? (Rethorical) What about a Ranger that uses a heartstring from a past animal companion for a bowstring? Might fit Ghost Heart better though.

 

What about a melee Ranger sub? BG had "Stalker".

[MortyTheGobbo]

The vanilla Ranger from BG wasn't any better at archery than any other warrior class. Really, they were just Figthers with a different XP progression, giving up weapon specialization for some tricks and spells. In BG2, they also got dual-wielding, for... some reason.

 

The problem with petless rangers is that once you take away the pet, what makes a ranger different than a fighter or rogue who likes to hang out in the wilds? They need something to set them apart, and in Pillars, it's the animal companion. We could wish they had another gimmick, but it's too late for that.

 

I could see a melee ranger subclass. It's already possible to play a ranger as melee, just a bit counter-intuitive. The game plays up their ranged capabilities, but you can pick those abilities that work with melee weapons. A dedicated subclass could work with that.

Edited July 14, 2017 by MortyTheGobbo

[anameforobsidian]

The vanilla Ranger from BG wasn't any better at archery than any other warrior class. Really, they were just Figthers with a different XP progression, giving up weapon specialization for some tricks and spells. In BG2, they also got dual-wielding, for... some reason.

 

The problem with petless rangers is that once you take away the pet, what makes a ranger different than a fighter or rogue who likes to hang out in the wilds? They need something to set them apart, and in Pillars, it's the animal companion. We could wish they had another gimmick, but it's too late for that.

 

I could see a melee ranger subclass. It's already possible to play a ranger as melee, just a bit counter-intuitive. The game plays up their ranged capabilities, but you can pick those abilities that work with melee weapons. A dedicated subclass could work with that.

 

A ranger with no pet and twinned arrows still plays pretty differently than other classes.  They could probably do with some entangle spells, and maybe some traps, but you are going to pick the ranger for ranged weapons over any other class except rogue.  Oh, and the dual-wielding was because of Drizzt.

[injurai]

What about an animal companion with no ranger?