Politics 2017 part II

Meshugger · January 30, 2017

Interesting how the NGOs, the think tanks and the media are up in arms over Trump banning entry for people coming from countries that Obama bombed. Perhaps he should go back to to sending drones to yemeni weddings, at least then will the blood lust of these agitators satisfied.

Add Afghanistan, Pakistan and Saudi to the list though. Countries whose cultural exports consists of 9/11, Bacha Bazi and the Rotherham child prostution scandal should be banned from entering any other civilization, not just western.

Hiro Protagonist · January 30, 2017

Good to see Trump take in Refugees from Nauru and Manus Island. :thumbsup:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/jan/29/donald-trump-malcolm-turnbull-phone-call-immigration-ban-muslim

BruceVC · January 30, 2017

How does Islam progress compared to a country ? Interesting rant for sure, but not sure how that comparison works.

Malc I am unclear on what you mean?

Zoraptor · January 30, 2017

Islam has been out for just as long as Christianity and have they progressed anywhere near what we have in America? Why is a such a nation that was founded on Christianity progress so much farther and isn't in the dark ages still? Because we had the knowledge to keep religion away from government. That doesn't mean that there haven't been any christians in our govt to influence our laws and practices, it means that you don't HAVE to be Christian to influence our laws and practices. We swallow things that goes against the faith.

This is a ridiculous apples to oranges argument but ok, let's deal with it. In terms of science and technology Islam has contributed FAR more than you could possibly imagine. Algebra is Arabic in origin, YOU COUNT IN ARABIC NUMERALS! While Europe (and thus christianity) was going through a regressive dark ages, the Islamic states were flourishing beacons of culture and innovation. Byzantium became the Islamic Ottoman Empire which has been credited as one of the outstanding actors in politics of it's era. The only reason that Europe had a resurgence was because a whole bunch of people died, meaning that serfdom (which was reinforced by the church as the "Divine Right of Kings") was no longer a viable system of government. Even then the only reason they really got far ahead was because the European governments were funding (via governments) expeditions to the new world and to the Far East. If China had decided to keep it's naval program going, we'd all be following Confucian values rather than Abrahamic ones.

They aren't even particularly comparable in age either. At the equivalent time point in Christianity's evolution we weren't even finished finding imaginative ways to kill Hussites, Lollards or Cathars, still thought the pope was literally god's voice on earth (well, if you knew what was good for you, see said Hussites, Lollards or Cathars) and were still nearly 3 centuries from 'eppo si muove' or the Peace of Westphalia. And 4 centuries off the formation of the US. 14th century Europe had practically no significant new inventions of any sort, just entertaining guff like trebuchets.

Malcador · January 30, 2017

How does Islam progress compared to a country ? Interesting rant for sure, but not sure how that comparison works.
Malc I am unclear on what you mean?

Well he is carrying on about how Islam is not as advanced as the US. If the US is where it is due to Christianity (dubious...) ok, but how is a religion judged along those lines?

Guard Dog · January 30, 2017

So, on Real Clear Politics and Red Alert Politics I counted 11 news articles today that compare Trump to Hitler and the Nazis. You know the problem with the "Everyone I don't like is Hitler" thing? It makes people forget just what Hitler actually was. On the evil scale Trump isn't even on the same meter as Hitler. A four month ban on travel from just seven countries is it? There are 38 "Islamic Republics" on the earth and over 80 where Islam is the dominant religion. But this four month ban is being portrayed as a total ban on ALL Muslims EJ Dionne from the Washington Post even speculates if internment camps will follow. Small wonder the news media is held in such small regard in the US today. Barack Obama banned travel from several Muslim countries in 2009 and 2011 and not a word was said... by anyone.

Trump is not nationalizing private property. Hitler did that. Trump is not shipping people to death camps. Hitler did that. He didn't have the police agencies murder his own supporters. Hitler did that. Get the idea?

The truth is the media made Trump through a combination of condescension to his supporters, obvious collusion to help the Democrats, and sensationalistic and outright yellow journalism in how they report on him. The media has so defined itself has the enemy of the "average American" that they are practically guaranteeing Trump a second term. We need the media to be critical of him. They utterly failed to do that with Obama but they figure he was on "their team". But for God's sake they need to cut the hyperventilating. It's not helping.

Volourn · January 30, 2017

". Like if the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saint's fundamentalist arm got all Militant and decided to start fighting a war with the USA"

But, they don't.

Blarghagh · January 30, 2017

Trump is not nationalizing private property yet. Hitler did that. Trump is not shipping people to death camps yet. Hitler did that. He didn't have the police agencies murder his own supporters yet. Hitler did that. Get the idea?

Fixed that for you. :lol:

I kid, I kid.

Malcador · January 30, 2017

Is funny watching reaction to the Quebec shooting, such anticipation to find out the shooters' identities, heh.

Timely of them to do that, though.

Blarghagh · January 30, 2017

Sigh. My local news network conveniently forgot to mention that the Quebec attack even happened, I had to google it when you just mentioned it, and when not too long ago they covered Charlie Hebdo almost 24/7... Time to find a new way to watch the news I guess.

Chilloutman · January 30, 2017

Sigh. My local news network conveniently forgot to mention that the Quebec attack even happened, I had to google it when you just mentioned it, and when not too long ago they covered Charlie Hebdo almost 24/7... Time to find a new way to watch the news I guess.

yeah, I now only count as reliable source Obs forums

Malcador · January 30, 2017

Sigh. My local news network conveniently forgot to mention that the Quebec attack even happened, I had to google it when you just mentioned it, and when not too long ago they covered Charlie Hebdo almost 24/7... Time to find a new way to watch the news I guess.

CBC was 10 minutes behind the BBC and Guardian, I found that funny.

PK htiw klaw eriF · January 30, 2017

Trump is not nationalizing private property yet. Hitler did that. Trump is not shipping people to death camps yet. Hitler did that. He didn't have the police agencies murder his own supporters yet. Hitler did that. Get the idea?

Fixed that for you.

I kid, I kid.

Hitler actually privatized a lot of stuff. I'll look for the articles when I have time.

Volourn · January 30, 2017

Obsidian and Codex are the bestest sources (not counting Bruce lol).

Obsidian is left leaning but open to spam form the other side.

Codex is larping extreme right wing but allow all to spam.

As for the Quebec thing. Not gonna comment too much about who or what the exact shooters are until it is confirmed for sure. Too much fake news going on there. It is sad, hwoever, that people feel the need to hope for the shooter to be a certain colour or religion so their prejudices can be confirmed. Those whoa re anti white who it is some whit eboy extremist and thos ewho are anti Muslim hope it is anti Muslim. I say no matter who did the shooting, they are pieces of crap. I'll say that before the shooters are confirmed and after.

Though, I'd say our PM should not be talking smack until the facts are known. He might very well be embarrassed like Obama has been in the past but sicne the press likes them his embarrassment might very well be covered up like Obama's spam was if the shooter turns out not the way he wants.

Chilloutman · January 30, 2017

I actually am very surprised that there were not much terror attacks by whites on Muslims in west world (excluding Breivik) I would expect by now some nutjobs to capitalise on current climate in west societies

redneckdevil · January 30, 2017

Islam has been out for just as long as Christianity and have they progressed anywhere near what we have in America? Why is a such a nation that was founded on Christianity progress so much farther and isn't in the dark ages still? Because we had the knowledge to keep religion away from government. That doesn't mean that there haven't been any christians in our govt to influence our laws and practices, it means that you don't HAVE to be Christian to influence our laws and practices. We swallow things that goes against the faith.
This is a ridiculous apples to oranges argument but ok, let's deal with it. In terms of science and technology Islam has contributed FAR more than you could possibly imagine. Algebra is Arabic in origin, YOU COUNT IN ARABIC NUMERALS! While Europe (and thus christianity) was going through a regressive dark ages, the Islamic states were flourishing beacons of culture and innovation. Byzantium became the Islamic Ottoman Empire which has been credited as one of the outstanding actors in politics of it's era. The only reason that Europe had a resurgence was because a whole bunch of people died, meaning that serfdom (which was reinforced by the church as the "Divine Right of Kings") was no longer a viable system of government. Even then the only reason they really got far ahead was because the European governments were funding (via governments) expeditions to the new world and to the Far East. If China had decided to keep it's naval program going, we'd all be following Confucian values rather than Abrahamic ones.
If what's going on in the Middle East is due to Islam practices, then dammit it's the problem. The ME is trying to practice a theocracy and rejects going against Islam thru violence and hate. It's a problem because they WONT separate the religion from government and laws. **** sake, sharia law you allow is doing exactly that, keeping religion and government together. So please tell how that is not a problem. Islam by itself is not a problem, it's the separation of govt and religion that is and you in favor of sharia law is continuing the damn problem. Of course u can explain why keeping religion and government together is such a great idea and not a problem.
"What's going on in the Middle East" isn't strictly due to Islam or any particular faith. It's a quagmire of faith and history that consumes everyone within it because there are at least four different faiths and ethnic groups that claim the same plot of land as "theirs" leading to conflict. Even if you decided to point specifically at Islam, the elements we hear about are simply the loudest and most extreme forms of it. Like if the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saint's fundamentalist arm got all Militant and decided to start fighting a war with the USA and managed to take most of the western interior. I don't think you'd appreciate being lumped in with those polygamous jerks or being subjected to heavy levels of scrutiny and suspicion just because you happened to exist within 1000 miles of the primary point of conflict.

And if you're saying that somehow the American Governmental Apparatus is not constantly being pushed to specifics from Christian Laws, consider how many times our political leaders have attempted to declare that God will save our soldiers, or that we need to have the Ten Commandments (something specific to Christianity and Judaism) on our offices of government. That we just had an entire legal fight between the right wing of the population and the government because a doink in Kentucky refused to issue marriage certificates due to her religious beliefs. You're not "Swallowing it" if every time somebody merges the two you fight tooth and nail to prevent the separation.

The issue right now with the ban is that it's lumping everyone from those states in with Bad Actors with no real purpose. Of that list how many are actually involved in an open Conflict? Iraq and Syria? Maybe Lybia? (I need to brush up on my mid east) but I know Iran isn't currently involved in an open conflict within it's own borders, nor is Pakistan.

Right now much of Trump's policy decisions are being made as if he were a new CEO rather than a President. Get rid of all the old guys and bring in your own people, make a few drastic changes to prove "I'm in Charge!" and reorg the upper echelon to suit what you believe to be the most efficient organizational structure. Thing is Trump is a ****ty business man and it was proven previously when he had several failed businesses fall out from under him and had declared bankruptcy several times. But his ego and him speaking so loud lends credence the "Big Lie" idea (paraphrasing Mien Kamph Vol I Ch. X) "If you make a big simple lie, and keep saying it, people will believe it" because everyone now assumes that he'll make the Economy work for them again just because he's been "Successful in business".

I'ma gonna stop because I need to sleep for tomorrow and I'm rambling.

Thumbs up, thank you for that (no sarcasm)

Two things then (this is a rant)

1. Looking at our political climate, it looks like soon that America will be seeing our dark ages soon seeing how the 2 biggest political parties are screening it up for everyone with philosophy's.

2. I even stated that christians are influencing the laws, BUT would u agree that u DONT have to be a Christian to make laws and influence how this country is going? Also would u agree that the ME is having a huge problem because they cannot do the same?

Barothmuk · January 30, 2017

As an Irish man who family came to America as slaves, slaves doesn't hold a "omg ur evil!" feel to me, you know why? I want you to name me just 1 empire that didn't have slaves.

lol, what the actual ****.

Trump is not nationalizing private property yet. Hitler did that. Trump is not shipping people to death camps yet. Hitler did that. He didn't have the police agencies murder his own supporters yet. Hitler did that. Get the idea?

Fixed that for you.

I kid, I kid.

Hitler actually privatized a lot of stuff. I'll look for the articles when I have time.

Churchill had more stuff nationalized iirc. Edited January 30, 2017 by Barothmuk

BruceVC · January 30, 2017

I actually am very surprised that there were not much terror attacks by whites on Muslims in west world (excluding Breivik) I would expect by now some nutjobs to capitalise on current climate in west societies

Most white people have evolved in a societal way, attacking and killing Muslims because some extremist killed other people would normally be seen as counterintuitive

We simply bide our time and pass laws later to legally discriminate against the entire Muslim community so they hopefully leave and return home

Volourn · January 30, 2017

Why would they go back?

FACT: You are less likely to be murdered in the West for being a Muslim than to be murdered in the ME for being the 'wrong kind' of Muslim. That is, in spite of the disgusting attack last night.

Chilloutman · January 30, 2017

I actually am very surprised that there were not much terror attacks by whites on Muslims in west world (excluding Breivik) I would expect by now some nutjobs to capitalise on current climate in west societies
Most white people have evolved in a societal way, attacking and killing Muslims because some extremist killed other people would normally be seen as counterintuitive

We simply bide our time and pass laws later to legally discriminate against the entire Muslim community so they hopefully leave and return home

Well I know where you are heading but still, there is a lot 'white trash' that I would already expect to do some stupid ****

BruceVC · January 30, 2017

I have been watching all this outrage and horror around how the Muslims in these 7 countries have " been treated " by the USA on various news channels both local and international

The various comments generally highlight for me the inconsistencies and unintentional hypocrisy. I can guarantee you 90% of the total people commenting have no idea about the reality or social conditions in countries like Yemen, Sudan or Somalia. They are not aware of daily atrocities or hardships many local Muslims suffer under.....and in most cases its Muslims making other Muslims suffer

So despite the fact people could comment and express horror at the reality of the 25 year failed state of Somalia its much more socially acceptable to comment how terrible the US is for making Somalis wait at USA airports.

You see this is about the human psyche, we feel better about the reality of Somali refugees if we can focus on blaming the USA and not having to address the core problem which exists in the actual country of Somalia :biggrin:

Volourn · January 30, 2017

Also... the people whining about this ban didn't complain so loudly when Obama wa sbombing the **** out of some these coutnries. They didn't complain when Obama put them on the 'danger list'. They didn't complain when Obama banned refugees from Syrira for months at a time.

It also should be noted that Trump didn't choose these countries. Obama did. the only country named in Trump's executive order was Syria by name. The rest came from Obama. I, at first, believe the fake news that Trump chose these countries and not others because of his businesses but in reality it was because he was following Obama's lead.

Hmmm...

Gfted1 · January 30, 2017

Also... the people whining about this ban didn't complain so loudly when Obama wa sbombing the **** out of some these coutnries. They didn't complain when Obama put them on the 'danger list'. They didn't complain when Obama banned refugees from Syrira for months at a time.

It also should be noted that Trump didn't choose these countries. Obama did. the only country named in Trump's executive order was Syria by name. The rest came from Obama. I, at first, believe the fake news that Trump chose these countries and not others because of his businesses but in reality it was because he was following Obama's lead.

Hmmm...

The raging butthurt is what drives these media and celebrity actions. Trump could literally transmute lead into gold and the Coalition for the Respect of Lead would file an injunction. :lol:

BruceVC · January 30, 2017

Also... the people whining about this ban didn't complain so loudly when Obama wa sbombing the **** out of some these coutnries. They didn't complain when Obama put them on the 'danger list'. They didn't complain when Obama banned refugees from Syrira for months at a time.

It also should be noted that Trump didn't choose these countries. Obama did. the only country named in Trump's executive order was Syria by name. The rest came from Obama. I, at first, believe the fake news that Trump chose these countries and not others because of his businesses but in reality it was because he was following Obama's lead.

Hmmm...

For me I have always been fine with the list of countries, Iran is the only inconsistency on some levels

The 7 countries have valid reasons for being scrutinized so its not relevant IMO if Trump or Obama created the list I would be supportive

Guard Dog · January 30, 2017

Well, where he lost me was stopping legal residents of the US from returning. And I believe that has already been walked back. But this is a lot less of a big deal than is being made of it. I can't wait to hear the SCOTUS pick tomorrow. The Democrats and the Media (the same thing I know) are going to go batsht crazy. It will be entertaining at least.

Mr. Trump? Three words for you sir. Janice Rogers Brown. Make it happen. That will throw a match in the hay barn for real.

Politics 2017 part II

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