What can OE learn from Tyranny to better PoE 2

[Sedrefilos]

 

 

 

Tyranny by contrast felt like it started rather poorly. You didn't get a chance to have a proper conversation, or learn anything about the universe, before the Oathbreaker Runners showed up. It all felt very shoehorned, and too fast paced.

 

Hit the Conquest button after making a character and you get the introduction to the universe.

 

Nah you don't. You get a series of choices to make in a conquest campaign of a place you know nothing of at the moment. And you care not for the moment.

Couldn't disagree more

 

I thought it was a great intro to the game world

 

It's a good intro to the game. Not so much of a good intro the game world. The intro video is a better intro to the world imo

It is also a good intro to your 2nd playthrough, since you're more familiar with factions etc at that point. For first time... I just tried to pick what was the least horrible option 'cause I don't play evil characters and I really didn't like that much, at the end (thought it was a cool idea at the start), that you're starting off as an evil lackey of His Evilness.

[Sannom]

​- Not 100% sure about this one yet, but I haven't seen any long-term health or spell resources.  It seems like you totally regen after each fight?  If so, again it's too "action RPG" style: there'd be no need to manage health and abilities over a unit any larger than a single fight.  POE isn't perfect here, but it does try.

 

​

Tyranny has its Wounds system, which is basically the Health/Endurance system of PoE. It works rather well in my opinion, even if I would prefer to have that, plus the Wounds system of Pillars. Also, the UI isn't as intuitive.

 

 

 

-Watching 20+ cooldowns spread over 4 characters and then using then using each and every one when they refresh feels like a chore, as does pre-buffing. I don't think they're going to switch PoE 2 over to a cooldown system but I really dont want pre-buffing introduced into PoE 2.

I have been successfully brain-washed by Pillars of Eternity, I always forget to pre-buff! Although there is also the fact that I don't have a lot of buff spells yet.

 

Most people in this thread are going to discuss combat minutiae, progression and writing, which is understandable, but I just wanted to point out that the implementation of traps in Tyranny feels a lot better than PoE's and is a further step in the right direction when compared to the IE trap mechanics, which never felt like they captured the joys of dungeon crawling and added a lot of busywork that matched the source material mechanically but not in spirit.

Really? How so? I haven't seen a lot of them yet, but what I've seen didn't feel particularly interesting.

 

Okay, now about two things that I'm interested in based on my time spent on Tyranny :

 

- design a better enemy AI for handling my support casters! Seriously, down to Barik and Lantry against three enemies, I won the fight because those idiots kept attacking Barik, with his heavy armor and high defenses, and totally ignored Lantry, who kept Barik alive through a rotation of Healing Wisp and Erase the Record!

 

- no status effects on Graze. OK, this one I think we should discuss. Yay or nay? On the one hand, it really makes you feel the Graze, but on the other hand, I sometimes miss PoE's gentler approach.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Sannom

[Arddv]

My take on Tyranny.

 

+ World and character presentation is definetely better. I don't know if it has something to do with more vibrant and bright colours, or cell-shaded character models, but the game feels more alive despite obviously laking any depths beyond first glance. PoE looked more ...bland.

 

- Extreme railroadedness. Without much spoilers I can only tell that there is only ONE meanigfull choice in this game and it happens in act I. To add insult to injury, there is zero exploration. You go to some place only when plotline tells you to go there, you kill everyone, and never come back. Never.

 

- Hybrid of classless skill-based system with unique companions that are their own classes is a nice experiment, but has no place in PoE2. In short, there are three classes: Two-hander DPS machine, 150+ Lore blastermage and Sirin. Everything else is for flavor only.

 

+ Spellcrafting. I definetely do not want it to replace vancian system, but there can be a class that utilises it. There's a lot to do for this system, like making every combination less genric, but overall it is a good direction.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Most people in this thread are going to discuss combat minutiae, progression and writing, which is understandable, but I just wanted to point out that the implementation of traps in Tyranny feels a lot better than PoE's and is a further step in the right direction when compared to the IE trap mechanics, which never felt like they captured the joys of dungeon crawling and added a lot of busywork that matched the source material mechanically but not in spirit.

Really? How so? I haven't seen a lot of them yet, but what I've seen didn't feel particularly interesting.

 

Traps are: 1) always visible in the environment, even though some of them aren't immediately conspicuous, which means that players are rewarded for being observant and switching to stealth mode at the right moment, rather than for playing in stealth mode all the time; 2) they seem to have done some fiddling with the math and balance to make sure that stealth is only required for characters with low subterfuge, so my party found most of them while walking at normal speed, which greatly improved the pacing of exploration; 3) traps work on enemies and allies alike, and I seem to remember (but I might be wrong, I haven't tested it) that some can be triggered multiple times; 4) there are also trap-like environmental hazards that don't necessarily fit the IE mold of traps, like the Banetraps in the Oldwalls.

 

There's other stuff that I think Tyranny simply did better than PoE rather than differently*, but it's stuff that I assume will be carried over to PoE2 (spell effects being less likely to blow up and make everything look like a nuclear explosion just happened, full health bars only showing up when you hover your mouse over an enemy, status effects all getting their own animations and effects, etc.)

 

* It goes without saying that PoE2 won't use a skill-based system and learn-by-doing mechanics, or that a 4-man party isn't indicated for an IE throwback, or that cooldowns for abilities would greatly reduce the differences between classes, for example.

[Sedrefilos]

There's one more thing I forgot to mention that Pillars can take from Tyranny. Or, actually, from almost every other game there is: minimap.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Sedrefilos

[ManifestedISO]

I pooh-poohed the mini-map prior to playing, saying it seemed sorta cheaty, but now it's indispensable. Really helps with OCD treasure collection.

[Fenixp]

I just want the minimap to be optional, at least by allowing me to set combat log as primary display. And give me back full-screen maps.

[SkySlam]

There's one more thing I forgot to mention that Pillars can take from Tyranny. Or, actually, from almost every other game there is: minimap.

 

I disagree: I find minimaps to be good only in action-rpgs (Diablo style) or real-time strategy (Warcraft, Starcraft etc.).

Here with Pillars, I find that consulting the full-screen map of an area is much more fascinating and evocative.

 

Having a minimap is probably more practical, but does everything have to be efficient even in a fantasy RPG?

After all, this is a single player game and we are going to take our time with exploration; it's not like we are going to rush through locations or challenge someone else in a PvP battle. Loot and VIP indicators feel especially game-y in my opinion.

 

Minimaps in general seem "cheap" to me, and immersion-breaking, so to say. Also, they clutter the UI, but as long as there is an option to hide them, I'm not complaining.

Edited November 17, 2016 by SkySlam

[floredon]

I like the way factions are implemented in Tyranny, although I feel they could be improved. I would like to see something deeper like how factions worked in FONV. One of Pillars weaknesses was that factions didn't seem to matter in the end. 

[Sedrefilos]

The minimap is the minimized area map. Why is it so immersion breaking? You do open the area map frequently no? Why not just have it in a smaller version always nearby. Tyranny also has this "smart" minimap that auto-switches to combat log once the battle begins. Neat.

[SkySlam]

The problem is: in Tyranny that ugly minimap replaced the full-screen maps, that I find much more evocative. I wouldn't like this change at all for PoE2.

If they want to add a minimap, fine by me (as long as I can hide it), but by no means remove the full sized map of a location!

 

I think that full-screen maps have always worked very nicely in EE games, so I don't see a real reason to replace them. This is a typical case of "if it ain't broke don't fix it" in my eyes.

[Karkarov]

The problem is: in Tyranny that ugly minimap replaced the full-screen maps, that I find much more evocative. I wouldn't like this change at all for PoE2.

If they want to add a minimap, fine by me (as long as I can hide it), but by no means remove the full sized map of a location!

 

I think that full-screen maps have always worked very nicely in EE games, so I don't see a real reason to replace them. This is a typical case of "if it ain't broke don't fix it" in my eyes.

Well you can hide the minimap, and you can get a full screen map just by pressing the M button and holding it down.  I thought it was weird too, but once you get used to it the system works okay.

Edited November 18, 2016 by Karkarov

[TheisEjsing]

 

The problem is: in Tyranny that ugly minimap replaced the full-screen maps, that I find much more evocative. I wouldn't like this change at all for PoE2.

If they want to add a minimap, fine by me (as long as I can hide it), but by no means remove the full sized map of a location!

 

I think that full-screen maps have always worked very nicely in EE games, so I don't see a real reason to replace them. This is a typical case of "if it ain't broke don't fix it" in my eyes.

Well you can hide the minimap, and you can get a full screen map just by pressing the M button and holding it down.  I thought it was weird too, but once you get used to it the system works okay.

 

The holding M down thingie is not a keeper thou. 

[ManifestedISO]

I played PoE for almost 300 hours and right now I have no idea what the mini-map looked like, because the one in Tyranny is so intuitive my brain is telling me all mini-maps have always looked like this.

[Quillon]

I played PoE for almost 300 hours and right now I have no idea what the mini-map looked like.

 

Nobody knows.

[theBalthazar]

I have finished Tyranny.

 

I start to thinking with optimization and re-do the game.

 

And I have a big problem with Skills trainers : (The 5 points per level)

 

If Sirin, Kill in shadows and Eb come later... They can't obtain the same number of training point by level. And its ridiculous : my verse has 89 in bow. Lantry has 92 in lore.

 

 

When Sirin come (SAME level, I specify), ...50 in lore. There is a BIG problem with this system. Its not ten points less, but 40 !...

 

I think the five training points should be accumulate freely.

 

Level 2 ?

 

5x2=10 skills points in charge.

 

Level 10 ?

 

5 x 10 = 50 (Memorized and usable at anytime. This solution fix all the problems)

 

etc.

 

Its also a problem when you unintentionnally pick a level BEFORE talk to a skills trainers. You miss sometimes your points for the precedent level.

 

I hope a patch for fix this.

 

Why to abandon barik, Lantry and verse with full charge of point ? Its problematic. Sirin, Eb and Kill in shadows do not serve anymore.

Edited November 18, 2016 by theBalthazar

[Kriber22]

The magic system. PoE2 needs to have this magic system. In fact, all games should have this magic system.

[theBalthazar]

Personnaly, I prefer the spells of PoE. There are more inspired and varied.

 

The best for me Would be to propose some mods (accents ? : ) ) to PoE's spells. While maintaining this diversity.

 

The problem with tyranny 

Many powers resemble each other or just do damage. In cone, in line. It's industrial. It's less inspired. Despite the excellent side of customization.

Edited November 18, 2016 by theBalthazar

[transfett]

That thing with "Craft your own stuff! Have full control over everything" is a newcomb's paradox: The more omnipotence a system claims to offer, the more predictable choices are implemented. Alternatively you can make a game that does not care about balance and wants you to find the most abstruse ways to slay opponents. That's basically magicka.

 

You think you want to modify your spells but in the end, it is just concentrated genericism.

I think everything exciting about spellcrafting is to find something handcrafted in there and exactly not its modularity.

[evilcat]

The traineer skill points are ok system, as fancy way to "5 skill points per level" + some cash sink. However they should be accumulated over levels, maybe traineers should have special icon on map (mmo style but whatever). One thing are companions, but even player may miss a traineer early on, or just get 2 levels in one dungeon (may happen). 

 

Spells discovery is ok, but accents are even better part of it. Call it accents or metamagic. In the end i dont need as many spells total. And it makes easier to remember to play if i take low level spell  and just amplify it to late game (damage, range, tohit, area, duration, secondary effects...)

 

I recently played game Path of Exile, it also has interesting mechanic of single skill gems which we can improve adding range, speed, duration, curses, other damage type. In result it is more fun and interactive than: lv1 Lightbolt lv 9 Greater Lightstorm

[ShadySands]

I'd like to see the spell accents return in some form even if it's very limited

[Bill Gates' Son]

The magic system. PoE2 needs to have this magic system. In fact, all games should have this magic system.

 

I rather they don't change the whole magic system.  However, I would love for a new class to have Tyranny's magic system.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Bill Gates' Son

[evilcat]

 

The magic system. PoE2 needs to have this magic system. In fact, all games should have this magic system.

 

I rather they don't change the whole magic system.  However, I would love for a new class to have Tyranny's magic system.

 

I had somewhere idea of Runemaster, as caster who use runes to combine them for greater effect.

PoE is already soul-punk, so they may be already a mage who use engwithian symbols to trick the world... may be ok enought.

So yes, there could be class in poe2 with tyranny magic system.

But accents fit to all.

Edited November 20, 2016 by evilcat

[theBalthazar]

I also hope a true end.

 

Tyranny ****ed up his own ending. It's not epic and suggests DLC. I'm not agree with that.

 

The story is globally better than Pillars, but the end is simply bad. Lack of time ? The act three is laughable.

Edited November 20, 2016 by theBalthazar

[evilcat]

About Act 3, in poe there was a feedback, that act 3 was a little too long, and in many ways similar to act 2 with another hub and random quests. When players after act 2 may felt on the hunt.

In Tyranny act 3 may be 3 boss fights which is not bad.

 

There could be a problem with Tyranny in general that we are cut from some areas depending on the choices, there could a trick that in act 3 we got whole map unlocked, since the rules gloves are off and we can go whenever we want (claim all the towers, finish investigation).

Or the rules that we can discover some areas by traveling from borderline of nearby area (like in poe).

Edited November 20, 2016 by evilcat