HBO Game of Thrones Season 6!

[Ganrich]

 

 

hah - Ho dør.. That's means (depending on pronounciation) 'prostitute door' or "prostitute dies"...

Hodor was a prostitute. #confirmed

Bran took advantage of that fact.

[Chilloutman]

I hope I will see my favorite character this season, but so far no mentioning about him

[Ganrich]

I hope I will see my favorite character this season, but so far no mentioning about him

Who is that, if you don't mind me asking?

[Guard Dog]

Interesting perspective: http://www.vox.com/2016/5/27/11787534/game-of-thrones-show-better-than-books-spoilers?yptr=yahoo&ref=yfp

[Ganrich]

Interesting perspective: http://www.vox.com/2016/5/27/11787534/game-of-thrones-show-better-than-books-spoilers?yptr=yahoo&ref=yfp

Hardholme happens in the books. Jon (or any other pov character for that matter) just isn't there. I don't know how the person who wrote this article can say the show made it up whole sale. The books still have a lot of characters alive that aren't around in the show, but the plot it still moving in similar directions. I don't want to get into all the changes, and what I think is going to happen because it is a giant can of worms and people who haven't read the books have some surprises in store if the show gets them to read them. In short, I don't agree with this article with the exception that I agree Martin is a slow writer.

[Guard Dog]

 

Interesting perspective: http://www.vox.com/2016/5/27/11787534/game-of-thrones-show-better-than-books-spoilers?yptr=yahoo&ref=yfp

Hardholme happens in the books. Jon (or any other pov character for that matter) just isn't there. I don't know how the person who wrote this article can say the show made it up whole sale. The books still have a lot of characters alive that aren't around in the show, but the plot it still moving in similar directions. I don't want to get into all the changes, and what I think is going to happen because it is a giant can of worms and people who haven't read the books have some surprises in store if the show gets them to read them. In short, I don't agree with this article with the exception that I agree Martin is a slow writer.

 

Hardhome in the books had few details and it was strongly hinted no one survived. So that it happened is not new. That Jon was there and killed a WW was made up and worked really well for a TV show. Martin has used the WW sparingly as a literary tactic to build up dread. That works better on page than on screen I think. A difference of presentation. 

 

The point the article made that I found interesting is "Has the plot gotten away from Martin". He is planning on two more books. Can he wrap up the story he's created in that time? I remember a while back, after ASoS came out he said he envisioned this story as a two act play with five years separating the two. The first three books were the first act. And they certainly did feel that way. The middle book was supposed to be the intermission that covered a longer period of time and moved the pieces around. The final two were the second act. But the middle book got too large, was split in two and now the original plan seems to have been changed. Now moving into what should be the road to the conclusion and the story is getting bigger. New characters, new plot lines, more details to be fleshed out before they can be wrapped up. The show is moving into an "end game" and the books don't seem to be.

[Ganrich]

 

 

Interesting perspective: http://www.vox.com/2016/5/27/11787534/game-of-thrones-show-better-than-books-spoilers?yptr=yahoo&ref=yfp

 

Hardholme happens in the books. Jon (or any other pov character for that matter) just isn't there. I don't know how the person who wrote this article can say the show made it up whole sale. The books still have a lot of characters alive that aren't around in the show, but the plot it still moving in similar directions. I don't want to get into all the changes, and what I think is going to happen because it is a giant can of worms and people who haven't read the books have some surprises in store if the show gets them to read them. In short, I don't agree with this article with the exception that I agree Martin is a slow writer.

Hardhome in the books had few details and it was strongly hinted no one survived. So that it happened is not new. That Jon was there and killed a WW was made up and worked really well for a TV show. Martin has used the WW sparingly as a literary tactic to build up dread. That works better on page than on screen I think. A difference of presentation. 

 

The point the article made that I found interesting is "Has the plot gotten away from Martin". He is planning on two more books. Can he wrap up the story he's created in that time? I remember a while back, after ASoS came out he said he envisioned this story as a two act play with five years separating the two. The first three books were the first act. And they certainly did feel that way. The middle book was supposed to be the intermission that covered a longer period of time and moved the pieces around. The final two were the second act. But the middle book got too large, was split in two and now the original plan seems to have been changed. Now moving into what should be the road to the conclusion and the story is getting bigger. New characters, new plot lines, more details to be fleshed out before they can be wrapped up. The show is moving into an "end game" and the books don't seem to be.

The books may have gotten away from Martin. I believe tWoW will be a lot of moving characters together again. I think Danny will set sail for Westeros, Dorne and Aegon will join forces, the north situation(s) will resolve, I think Littlefinger will be outplayed by Sansa in the Eyrie, and all the other odds and ends will play out by the end of the book. Such as Bran, Lady Stoneheart/Jaime/Brienne, Tyrion, Arya, etc. Getting everyone settled in Westeros (or at least in route to Westeros) for the finale is half the battle, and we have seen movements in this regard with Aegon and Dorne, Danny heading back through her history, Kings Landing vs the Church is coming to a head, the deals with Stannis and the Night's Watch and the Iron Bank, and so on.

 

I never understood the 5 year lapse Martin was going for personally. It seemed unnecessary. Obviously those plans aren't on the table anymore, and haven't been in a while. He seems to have cleared his other writing projects from the board finally, and he has cut back his public appearances as well. That gives me hope that tWoW is going to release within a year, but I am wise enough to not get my hopes too high with Martin meeting that deadline.

[Chilloutman]

 

I hope I will see my favorite character this season, but so far no mentioning about him

Who is that, if you don't mind me asking?

 

 

Bronn

[Oner]

Great episode. Apparently D&D got Hodor's story from GRRM all the way back in the beginning. So that is one thing from the books that was spoiled by the show for sure. It hit me like a gut punch. The one recurring theme of the story is how the characters are undone by their flaws. But in this case Bran's flaws were suffered by others. It will be interesting to see what effect that has on his development.

Considering he failed to learn anything from getting crippled and got a bunch of people killed for not listening to Three-eyes's warnings... probably nothing.

 

I'm not really surprised by the Children of the Forest being responsible for the Others seeing how ADWD dropped a few vague hints in that direction already. Enough to give rise to theories that they're still working with them (I guess the episode jossed that idea though).

I don't remember anything like this in the books, and upon double checking, neither does the wiki.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Children_of_the_forest#History

The Children and the First Men were at war for 2000 years before they made peace. Then 4000 years later the Others showed up.

 

Interesting perspective: http://www.vox.com/2016/5/27/11787534/game-of-thrones-show-better-than-books-spoilers?yptr=yahoo&ref=yfp

Fixed Martin's mistakes, except where they didn't and then added their own. Yay?

[majestic]

I don't remember anything like this in the books, and upon double checking, neither does the wiki.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Children_of_the_forest#History

The Children and the First Men were at war for 2000 years before they made peace. Then 4000 years later the Others showed up.

 

They're vague hints. Actually, more a combination of a vision of Melisandre and what Bloodraven says to Bran.

 

Besides, the timeline has been stated to be inaccurate so often we can pretty much assume it is out of whack. I don't think that D&D made the origins of the Others up (they are, after all, vulnerable to the one substance the Children made their weapons from).

Edited May 28, 2016 by majestic

[Volourn]

With time travel involved of coruse the timeline is out of whack.

[majestic]

With time travel involved of coruse the timeline is out of whack.

 

Except I meant what the measters consider the official history of Westeros where the wall was supposedly built 8000 years or so ago, not the timeline as a sci-fi/fantasy concept. But yeah, Hodor becoming Hodor because Bran manipulated him from the future  is not a concept that I liked.

 

So why not stop the Children from creating the Others in the first place? Novels solved. Bleh.

[Oner]

 

I don't remember anything like this in the books, and upon double checking, neither does the wiki.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Children_of_the_forest#History

The Children and the First Men were at war for 2000 years before they made peace. Then 4000 years later the Others showed up.

 

They're vague hints. Actually, more a combination of a vision of Melisandre and what Bloodraven says to Bran.

 

Besides, the timeline has been stated to be inaccurate so often we can pretty much assume it is out of whack. I don't think that D&D made the origins of the Others up (they are, after all, vulnerable to the one substance the Children made their weapons from).

 

That feels like a stretch to me, but fair enough.

[Volourn]

"So why not stop the Children from creating the Others in the first place? Novels solved. Bleh."

 

That could be what he does. Last episode will be the Others winning to start and then Bran just going in the past to stop their creation only to come back to future  that is even worse which  is what GOT does.

[Guard Dog]

My favorite line you didn't see in "Return of the King". After the eagles pick Sam & Frodo up at the mountain , Frodo turns to Gandlaf and says "Why didn't you tell me you had these things last year?"

[Ganrich]

My favorite line you didn't see in "Return of the King". After the eagles pick Sam & Frodo up at the mountain , Frodo turns to Gandlaf and says "Why didn't you tell me you had these things last year?"

There is a theory that Gandalf was headed to the eagles when they got stopped by Sauron and forced to pass through Moria. Gandalf died, and no one else said "Hey!! Let's go to the eagles!" Because they were being persued by Orcs, and the Elves were closer. The eagles' home is located on the other side of the mountains. Still the Elves should've sent them to the eagles. Anyway...

 

History is indeed faulty in Westerosi records. Sam discovers this, and tries to tell Jon, but Jon tells him to shut up when Sam was going to drop interesting information on the topic.

 

The TV show's creation of the White Walkers is something I'm not too fond of.

I always assumed the displacement of the Children was a culprit, but them creating the Walkers is too easy. I was hoping more of the act of displacing the Children screwed the climate up as a byproduct. The Children then assisted the Northerners at creating the wall and taught them the Walkers' weakness to Obsidian and possibly Dragon fire and Alchemist fire. However, there is no truly good or truly evil entities in the world, and I guess that's a way to show the evil ways of the Children. I just assumed sacrifices to the Weirwood trees would be enough. Eh, whatever.

 

Hodor - I want to read the details in the novel before I poo poo it too much. I can only assume Bran's link locked young Hodor's mind into the state of old Hodor. However, there could be more.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Ganrich

[majestic]

Well, barring the creation of the Heart of Winter as seen on the show there are only a handful of known events in the history of Martin's world that could - in theory - lead to that sort of climate change: The Hammer of the Water employed by the Children to smash the land bridge between Westeros and Essos, its second use in the attempt to sever the north of Westeros from the south (creating Moat Cailin) and the Doom of Valyria.

 

The Doom was too recent to be a likely culprit and creating floods and breaking islands is like to have an effect on the local climate but not on that scale. Somehow I doubt we'll get an answer either way.

[Ganrich]

Well, barring the creation of the Heart of Winter as seen on the show there are only a handful of known events in the history of Martin's world that could - in theory - lead to that sort of climate change: The Hammer of the Water employed by the Children to smash the land bridge between Westeros and Essos, its second use in the attempt to sever the north of Westeros from the south (creating Moat Cailin) and the Doom of Valyria.

 

The Doom was too recent to be a likely culprit and creating floods and breaking islands is like to have an effect on the local climate but not on that scale. Somehow I doubt we'll get an answer either way.

I agree, but I was saying that the Children themselves maintained the balance between fire and ice. We have 3 magic related beings in the world: White Walkers, Dragons, and the Children. I was saying that perhaps the Children we're what kept the other 2 in check. Magically speaking, and as they diminished that the war between fire and ice became inevitable. I dunno. It's crackpot with zero evidence. Just what I've thought about a time or two when thinking on it, or discussing it.

[Nonek]

 

My favorite line you didn't see in "Return of the King". After the eagles pick Sam & Frodo up at the mountain , Frodo turns to Gandlaf and says "Why didn't you tell me you had these things last year?"

 

There is a theory that Gandalf was headed to the eagles when they got stopped by Sauron and forced to pass through Moria. Gandalf died, and no one else said "Hey!! Let's go to the eagles!" Because they were being persued by Orcs, and the Elves were closer. The eagles' home is located on the other side of the mountains. Still the Elves should've sent them to the eagles. Anyway...

 

 

Would Gandalf, even as the white, be able to "command" the Eagles to do anything? As I remember from the Silmarillion the creatures were the favoured creations and servants of one of the high Valar, and acted according to his and maybe Illuvatar's commands, not those of a Maiar, even one serving his masters agendas. I may be misremembering however, it's been a while.

[Rosbjerg]

^ no you're right, they were also immensly proud. Basically Gwaihir owed Gandalf a favor, that he could only really call in on for taxi services it seems

[Ganrich]

I don't think he would try to command the Eagles so much as ask a favor. Gandalf was looked on fondly by most of Middle-Earth. I think the only people that spoke ill of him, or were irritated by him, were the human rulers (one was under a spell, and the other just a Steward). The Eagles would likely see the benefits to transporting the ring post haste, and they are a part of the world just like every other race. The Elves respected him greatly, and I would assume the Eagles as well.

[Nonek]

I agree that they would willingly do (and did) a favour for Gandalf, however would they do something that their master (Manwe was it?) wanted the free folk to accomplish on their own? I very much got the feeling that the destruction of the Ring was a task that the Valar wanted the people to accomplish independently, perhaps as a reckoning for the pride of Numenor and Saurons turning of that people, redemption? Though with a little help from the five Wizards of course.

 

I always wondered whether Tolkien had a seperate line for the five Wizards in his Ring poem originally: Five Wizards to wander the wilds of Middle Earth or somesuch.

[Blarghagh]

I like how your explanation leaves out the actual reason but still makes sense. Kudos.

 

The Eagles are servants of Manwe who has forbidden them to interfere with mortal business and only occassionally do favors for Gandalf, who is a Maiar and not mortal.

 

EDIT: I see Nonek said this already, I accidentally read over his post.

Edited May 29, 2016 by TrueNeutral

[Maedhros]

In addition, it would be incredibly risky to let the eagles carry Frodo. I doubt they are immune to the temptation of the ring.

[Blarghagh]

Yes, and I gave you kudos for that? Methinks you might be a little too easy to search out arguments there.