Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

Its part of a general trend of having young actors replace everyone unless absolutely necessary. How often do you now a see a full cast of grown men in a film? Like in the Indiana Jones movies? If you're over forty, or you look it - you're not going to get a part most of the time.  

 

Society wide obsession with youth, flawless good looks, abs on men, perfectly thin women etc..

 

If you don't believe me, check out how older women now dress. Exactly the same as the 20 year old girls for the most part. 

 

 

Naturally, having baby faced young men playing galactic leaders and villains is going to be laughable. Its like the superhero nonsense - a power trip for teenagers, getting to be something for nothing, skilled, powerful, experienced - but without all the work that goes into actually becoming it. Wrecking skyscrapers, beating up whole gangs and monsters without messing up your hair, clothes and good looks in the process.

While I feel like you're ridiculously overstating this and obviously bringing your own baggage of inferiority, I did watch Ghostbusters recently and realized there will never again be a movie cast quite like that.

 

The point is he doesn't look or act the role of a military leader.

Yes, but my point was exactly that? He's Hitler Jugend. He's a fresh faced true believer for Snoke to use as he will, and he brought his own contigent of resoc'd space marines with him. He's not there to be a leader - he considers his troops to be self-sufficient which comes back to bite him in the butt when Finn betrays him. I've got no issues with either Hux or Kylo Ren's age, my issue with the villains is that Snoke didn't feel threatening. If Snoke felt threatening, they would have. Instead, Snoke is 100% reactionary and not a plot driving force in this movie.

 

 

Bringing my own baggage of inferiority?

 

Your point makes no sense. Hitler Jugend made sense when there's Hitler and the rest of the men in the nazi party. Grown men fight and die for the remnants of the empire, following a man that no man could ever follow, that looks and acts like a child and can't deliver a speech to save his life. Same goes for Ren. If they're not following them, who are they following then? Snoke? There has to be a face of authority for the whole thing to be credible.

 

I don't usually like to delve deep into trivial things like this, the point that everyone was trying to make (apart from you and Rostere) is that the cast of villains are not convincing for a multitude of reasons and that while you might find that okay from your point of view that justifies their ineptitude, to the rest of us its just damn silly.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Drowsy Emperor

[Blarghagh]

I didn't mean that to be an insult. Just... you're obviously old.

 

As for men following, the movie points out that the First Order has some clone armies and this specific one was brainwashed. Finn took off his helmet without orders and that was enough for him to be sent to "resocialisation". Who's following by choice? He doesn't need to inspire jack ****. It's more logical than Vader, who has been in office killing his underlings so long that he should have none left. We're talking about the army mechanics of Star Wars here.

[Meshugger]

Was there any explanation on why the First Order is trying to out-Nazi the Empire? 

[Blarghagh]

I have no idea why the First Order did anything.

[Meshugger]

Oh well

[Hurlshort]

I've always seen Drowsy as the drunk Uncle of the forums.  That is meant as the highest compliment.

 

https://youtu.be/qHphZpCUHko?list=PLvJQozye4lE8LhvqvEvNhhuVsZQXOPwzk

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHphZpCUHko&index=4&list=PLvJQozye4lE8LhvqvEvNhhuVsZQXOPwzk

 

bleh, no idea what is happening with my attempt to link.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Hurlshot

[ShadySands]

Finally caught this last night

 

 

 

I'm actually hoping Finn turns out to also be force sensitive

 

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Finally caught this last night

 

 

 

I'm actually hoping Finn turns out to also be force sensitive

 

 

 

Finn is Lando and Leia's kid, furthering the trend of incest kissing

 

[HoonDing]

lol I'm going to watch it again in the weekend.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Was there any explanation on why the First Order is trying to out-Nazi the Empire?

 

They're edgy teenagers who are trying to beat their parents at Empiring.

[Drowsy Emperor]

I didn't mean that to be an insult. Just... you're obviously old.

 

As for men following, the movie points out that the First Order has some clone armies and this specific one was brainwashed. Finn took off his helmet without orders and that was enough for him to be sent to "resocialisation". Who's following by choice? He doesn't need to inspire jack ****. It's more logical than Vader, who has been in office killing his underlings so long that he should have none left. We're talking about the army mechanics of Star Wars here.

 

I'm 28

Edited December 21, 2015 by Drowsy Emperor

[Drowsy Emperor]

I've always seen Drowsy as the drunk Uncle of the forums.  That is meant as the highest compliment.

 

https://youtu.be/qHphZpCUHko?list=PLvJQozye4lE8LhvqvEvNhhuVsZQXOPwzk

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHphZpCUHko&index=4&list=PLvJQozye4lE8LhvqvEvNhhuVsZQXOPwzk

 

bleh, no idea what is happening with my attempt to link.

 

Its a thankless job but someone has to do it. Sober!

[Raithe]

Abrams said in a recent interview that one of the things he most wanted about Kylo Ren was for him not to be a fully formed, complete Villain. But much more of a work in progress, someone who is still kind of using the training wheels and on the path to becoming a complete villain. So that there would be the potential of the new trilogy showing that growth as much as you see the heroic characters evolve.

 

I guess in many ways it'll be hard to judge until you have all three to watch together, whether the complete trilogy will satisfy the potential flaws if this had just been a solo film meant to stand on its own merits rather than as just the first third of a story.

[HoonDing]

theres still time to kill Calo off screen and include a Twi'lek Sith babe next movie

[Sarex]

 

I'm 28

 

 

Wow, how many kids do you have?

[Bartimaeus]

I'm 28

We'll all miss you dearly when you go.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Bartimaeus

[Malcador]

Sober!

Yeah right, a sober Serb.

[Elerond]

After couple days of pondering 

 

 

 

Characters

Rey: Character setup is similar to Luke from Episode IV. As first we learn that she gets her income by scavenging pieces from old starships and fixing them which is quite similar to Luke that bought broken/abandoned/etc. droids and fixed them. She is also lured to adventure by droid looking its way to resistance. When she meets Finn we learn that she has grown up with stories about jedi, especially Luke Skywalker and those stories seem to have captured her imagination, which is quite similar to stories that Luke had heard about fighter pilots which had captured Lukes imagination. Both seem to be eager to help those in need, as Luke was quite eager to go rescue the Princess (as she new Leia at that moment of time) and Rey was quite ready to risk her life to help Finn (which she thought to be member of Resistance). We also learn that Rey was abandoned/hid by somebody in that desert plant just like Luke was. Also we learn during curse of the movie that she is strong in force, even though that revelation take longer than what it took for Luke. 

 

There also some difference to Luke that are notable and may become important things during trilogy. She seem to miss those who abandoned her, where Luke didn't have any recollections of his parents, and didn't seem to have quite little distress when he learnt that his father was killed by Darth Vader, it seem to be much more difficult thing to accept that Vader was his father.  But back to Rey, she seem to have emotional longing towards who ever left her behind to that desert planet. She also show early on the movie that she was already capable fighter who knows how to take care herself in fight. Where Luke seem to be bit lost even with Obi-Wan guiding him. But her reaction towards lightsaber was fear and even disgust, where Luke was eager to learn how to be space knight. But with force she is just opposite of Luke who had lots of disbelief towards it, Rey was eager to believe and embrace it even though she didn't even have anybody to show that force exist not mention to say she has it, so she seem to be much more in consular path where Luke was on knight path. 

 

Overall she was character that work fine in the movie, even though her biggest conflict (her feeling of abandonment and compensating that with belief that who abandoned her will some day come back for her) was swiped to side by Maz, but maybe that will be just temporal and they bring conflict back in future movies.

 

Finn: His setup as deserted soldier of dark side is something this movie brings as new to the canonical Star Wars universe. At beginning he is quite eager to leave it all behind him and that eagerness comes back every time he feels that he has been tied by coincidences are safe. In that he is quite similar to Solo's character from Episode IV. And at end he is motivated by his new friend being in danger to join the Resistances fight against First Order. Although Finn is mostly mess through the movie not really knowing what his place is. Overall he seem to be there just to motivate Rey. 

 

Poe seem to play dashing roguish pilot part that Han Solo played in Episode IV. Although he is not actually roguish, but he is excellent pilot. He has idiotic said to be death then with ludicrously vague explanation he comes back to save the day and then he gets role to destroy Starkiller base. So he was made as plot device character that lets plot move on, and they didn't even care enough him to give him decent back story in the movie. 

 

Maz she is super old wise bit eccentric alien that councils our heroes. She seem to play role of both Obi-Wan and Yoda from original trilogy. But her characterization is much thinner and she also is reduced to plot forwarder role by somehow getting Anakin's and Luke's old blue lightsaber in her hands, which awakens force in Rey. 

 

Han Solo and Chewbacca are there as dashing rogue duo that do their own thing and same time helps to forward plot of our new heroes. Their character would also be thin as paper if they didn't had massive back story from original trilogy which gives them much more life and feeling than previously mentioned character have and make it feel that they have right to be there where other characters need to justify their existence. They were able to steal spotlight from those characters that actually were there to play role of protagonists, which shows quite well how powerful characters backstories are.

 

Princess/General Leia has minimal screen time and still she feels better characterized than most of the new characters. She is there only to play nostalgia card and give explanation for Han's actions in end of the movie. Only strange scene with Leia was hug scene in end of movie with Rey, as before that moment those two character didn't know each other and their connection with each other were through other characters that weren't there to even to introduce them to each other. But maybe it was that they both have force and they felt each other and each sorrow at that moment, hard to say but movie fails to portray that if it was the case.

 

Kylo Ren is at first show in menacing way but that menace has it tone bit off and that tone become more and more off during the course of the movie, which makes me believe that it was done purposefully, as his character's dissonance grows slowly and purposefully. He has most character development of all the characters during the movie, which gives bit odd feeling as it makes him feel more protagonist than antagonist and that feeling is not necessary help by scenes that picture his inner conflict. He also gets more back ground story than any other character in the movie (even characters from original trilogy feel more fleshed out because they have three movies and countless other things that tell their stories). He seem to be strong in force, but not that well schooled in its use, which isn't that surprising as he isn't even 30 years old in the movie. He also is shown to have lots of anger issues and not to know how to deal with his emotions. If we compare him to Darth Vader from original trilogy he is just child and more like Luke than Vader but on dark side. His motivations are bit obscure in the movie, but it seems that he feels that he has connection with Vader and he also seems to believe that Vader has talk to him in the past. He is very erratic character don't carry similar menace as Darth Vader and his character build up makes viewers to question his motives. Overall him comes through as weakling that wants to be menacing sith lord, but he don't really have any clue how to do that and that he is fully in Snoke's control. It is also quite interesting how he with all the back story and character building feel most unfitting in Star Wars film of the all the characters in the movie. But with his build up it is quite clear that his importance for story will not lower in next film/s.

 

Snoke is the shadowy background villain that Emperor was in the original trilogy. His gets some build up in the movie, but that seems to be mostly aimed to build his role in future movies even though he also works as device to explain some actions by other villains  My guess is that he is actually Jar Jar Binks, just because Abrams liked evil mastermind Binks theory.

 

Captain Phasma is side note in this movie, but her scenes build up possibility that she will lay bigger role in next movies. My theory is that she will actually save Solo, because she put in garbage compactor or something like that and we know from original trilogy that dark side likes to build access to those in their deep holes of nothingness, so Han will drop on her and they use garbage ship or something like that to escape the destruction of the Starkiller base. 

 

General Hux is just menace building character that don't get any real characterization except jealousy towards Kylo. His appearance and feeling that he gives for audience aren't actually that menacing but they feel more as attention and approval seeking. I didn't feel that he is character that would be high ranking officer in any army that has choices, but maybe that is what his character tries to portray, meaning that First Order isn't in very good condition with most of their troopers being brainwashed and poorly educated.

 

C-3PO is there just be annoying commentator of things like he has always been.

 

R2-D2 is there just to be final plot device

 

BB-8 get good introduction but is then mostly forgotten and then seems to have ultimate knowledge of things about Luke. Mostly it plays part of R2-D2 from original movie, but is less sympathetic at the end and Abrams don't seem to give droids as much screen and story time as Lucas. So main role of BB-8 is reduced to give explanation how First Order is able to track our heroes. 

 

 

 

[Oerwinde]

I loved bb-8, like R2 but with less confidence. Him and Chopper from Star Wars Rebels are amazingly the characters with most personality in each of their series

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

Sober!

Yeah right, a sober Serb.

 

 

A travesty I know.

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

 

I'm 28

 

 

Wow, how many kids do you have?

 

 

Only Kylo Ren and I'm disappoint with that boy

[Blarghagh]

I'm 28

But... your example of not casting people who look too young was Indiana Jones, starring Harrison Ford, the man who looks so much younger than his age that they cast a man only ten years his senior to play his elderly, stuffy father and nobody even noticed. That's the kind of mistake that can only come from someone so ancient and stuffy they can't remember what young people even look like... Not someone my age. In short - for my own faith in humankind, I've decided to not even believe you.

Edited December 21, 2015 by TrueNeutral

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

I'm 28

But... your example of not casting people who look too young was Indiana Jones, starring Harrison Ford, the man who looks so much younger than his age that they cast a man only ten years his senior to play his elderly, stuffy father and nobody even noticed. That's the kind of mistake that can only come from someone so ancient and stuffy they can't remember what young people even look like... Not someone my age. In short - for my own faith in humankind, I've decided to not even believe you.

 

 

Its not that Harrison Ford looked younger (he was 36 or so at the time and that seemed about right), its Sean Connery that entered a well preserved state that lasted for the next thirty years. Anyway, they both looked manly... but in Indy 4 we we treated to this:

 

 

Why is that face in front of the camera? WHYYYY

Edited December 21, 2015 by Drowsy Emperor

[Blarghagh]

*shudders* Get it away, I'm getting post-traumatic flashbacks to the scene where he swings from vines with a bunch of monkeys!

 

EDIT: Seriously though, when Last Crusade came out Ford was 50 and Connery was 60 (give or take a month or two). Ford looks significantly younger than his age.

Edited December 21, 2015 by TrueNeutral

[Meshugger]

Bah, why have manly middle aged men when you can have sensitive, troubled, edgy teenagers in their early thirties instead? 

 

 

I mean, just look at the guy. So passé, no real gentleman of this day would care about someone looking like that, and certainly the women would find him absolutely revolting. Yuck, yuck, yuck.