The current refugee wave in Europe

[Barothmuk]

facebook

Ew.

[ktchong]

The refugees are the consequence of EU and NATO's unsavory interference to oust Assad and destabilize Syria.  We all know why the US and EU want to get rid of Assad: so that the US and EU can replace Assad with another tyrant who will work for the Western interests and take orders from the West (especially the US).  That's what it's been all about.

 

The West has been making concerted efforts to destabilize and create chaos in the Middle East, causing mass deaths and destruction via its direct and proxy campaigns.  The Western-backed wars and chaos have created the refugees who are now flooding into and overwhelming EU.  Now the karma bitch strikes back: those refugees will likely be the end of the Western civilization from within in the long run. There is a sweet, ironic ring of karma to it. It's almost like the universe is restoring the balance by punishing the real perpetrators.

 

So don't you white people cry and whine about refugees and immigrants destroying your countries and nations: you sowed the seeds, and now you are reaping the fruits. It is your own doing. You guys very much deserve it.  The only pity is the the US - a main perpetrator of wars, chaos, deaths and suffering in the region - are not being flooded by refugees from Syria, Iraq and Libya.

 

Edited September 8, 2015 by ktchong

[Barothmuk]

So don't you white people cry and whine about refugees and immigrants destroying your countries and nations: you sowed the seeds, and now you are reaping the fruits. It is your own doing. You guys very much deserve it.

The logical conclusion of liberal identity politics.

[ktchong]

 

So don't you white people cry and whine about refugees and immigrants destroying your countries and nations: you sowed the seeds, and now you are reaping the fruits. It is your own doing. You guys very much deserve it.

The logical conclusion of liberal identity politics.

 

 

Except I'm Asian.  The whole conservative vs liberal ("white guilt") thing is mostly a white people's thing.  I'm just an observer. 

 

You keep crying and whining about the refugees flooding into Europe.  But ask yourselves: who and what created the refugee crisis in the first place?    You know as well as I do the refugees are an outcome of the Syrian civil war, which is backed by the West.  It is not a secret.  You created the mess, so now you suffer the consequences (in the form of the refugees.)

 

You did not see the karma coming when you decide to screw over Syria, Libya, Iraq and rest of the Middle East, did you?

Edited September 8, 2015 by ktchong

[Barothmuk]

Except I'm Asian.

Not really relevant to my point. Liberal idpol can only clumsily lash out at some symptoms rather then directing their ire towards the actual root cause. It's because of this they'll come to erroneous conclusions like the average Joe Blow down the street being the cause of the refugee crisis as opposed to, well, the people who have directly orchestrated and profiteered from the events that brought it about.

[ktchong]

 

Except I'm Asian.

Not really relevant to my point. Liberal idpol can only clumsily lash out at some symptoms rather then directing their ire towards the actual root cause. It's because of this they'll come to erroneous conclusions like the average Joe Blow down the street being the cause of the refugee crisis as opposed to, well, the people who have directly orchestrated and profiteered from the events that brought it about.

 

 

Americans and Europeans love to use the excuse, "it's our government; it has nothing to do with us."  That excuse is so sickening.    You are a democracy.  In a democracy, the people are as responsible as the government for the crimes of your government - because you have to power to elect and replace your government.  If your government continues to commit atrocities overseas for years and years, decades and decades, and your government persists, then you are equally responsible for your government's crimes.

 

The whole "I'm not responsible for my government's crimes" excuse can be used by someone who lives under a totalitarian or dictatorial state, but not by someone who lives in the US, EU or a democracy.  It's a lame excuse.

Edited September 8, 2015 by ktchong

[Barothmuk]

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.

[Meshugger]

 

facebook

Ew.

 

 

Almost all social interaction is conducted nowadays via social media. It's almost impossible to avoid it.

 

 

The refugees are the consequence of EU and NATO's unsavory interference to oust Assad and destabilize Syria.  We all know why the US and EU want to get rid of Assad: so that the US and EU can replace Assad with another tyrant who will work for the Western interests and take orders from the West (especially the US).  That's what it's been all about.

 

The West has been making concerted efforts to destabilize and create chaos in the Middle East, causing mass deaths and destruction via its direct and proxy campaigns.  The Western-backed wars and chaos have created the refugees who are now flooding into and overwhelming EU.  Now the karma bitch strikes back: those refugees will likely be the end of the Western civilization from within in the long run. There is a sweet, ironic ring of karma to it. It's almost like the universe is restoring the balance by punishing the real perpetrators.

 

So don't you white people cry and whine about refugees and immigrants destroying your countries and nations: you sowed the seeds, and now you are reaping the fruits. It is your own doing. You guys very much deserve it.  The only pity is the the US - a main perpetrator of wars, chaos, deaths and suffering in the region - are not being flooded by refugees from Syria, Iraq and Libya.

 

 

 

Well, if the only options are either accepting a neverending horde of invading settlers or to fight back, it's not that difficult to guess what will happen. All those welcoming parties are in for a rude awakening, which I doubt that will not end at the Bosphorus.

 

The ideal of pacifism has given us 70 years of peace and prosperity, but sadly we have to lift the veil and accept the facts as they are: War.

[HoonDing]

Yurop needs rebuild Iron Curtain with 38° parallel armaments.

 

[Darkpriest]

To be honest, this will end up badly... well it was nice while it lasted these few hundred years, but it seems that the European culture will fall same as after few hundred of years Rome fell to migrating nations. History likes to run circles so it seems...

 

If it was up to me, I would send them to education camps:

 

1) learn language

2) find work

 

be employed consecutively for the next 3 years while also attending history and language classes. If not, pack that person and the whole family back to Syria...

 

BTW. I am less annoyed by the migration situation and more pissed off by the stupid US politics in the last 20 years in the Middle East and North Africa that led to this whole crisis...

Idiots were so ignorant and so full of the "bright" idea of forcing democracy on the culture that hates is, that now we have all this chaos...

 

Imagine if ME and NA was left alone and we would still have dictatorships over there... No problems in Iraq, Libia, Syria, etc... But the Israeli lobby was strong in US in the last 60 years and now we have this MiddleEast crisis... and it will only get worse since more and more radicals are waking up in countries like Jordan and Saudi Arabia...

 

As stupid as it sounds right now, but ISIS might achieve some of its goals and create new body... Just because it's ugly it does not mean it won;t succeed... All revolutions were bloody and ugly...

 

French revolution, Bolshevik revolution, Chinese revolution etc.

 

Again, the best thing would be, not to let those people in, get them settle stuff in the ME between themselves and close off borders for the next 100-200 years, and for what that is sane and logic... stop destabilizing the region by your odd ideas of democracy... those people do not want that, they want strong monarchy or dictatorship. That is all they know for the last at least 4000 years... stop messing with that!!! they need to evolve themselves to the point of appreciating features of democracy, tolreance, etc as nations.

[Blarghagh]

 

 

Except I'm Asian.

Not really relevant to my point. Liberal idpol can only clumsily lash out at some symptoms rather then directing their ire towards the actual root cause. It's because of this they'll come to erroneous conclusions like the average Joe Blow down the street being the cause of the refugee crisis as opposed to, well, the people who have directly orchestrated and profiteered from the events that brought it about.

 

 

Americans and Europeans love to use the excuse, "it's our government; it has nothing to do with us."  That excuse is so sickening.    You are a democracy.  In a democracy, the people are as responsible as the government for the crimes of your government - because you have to power to elect and replace your government.  If your government continues to commit atrocities overseas for years and years, decades and decades, and your government persists, then you are equally responsible for your government's crimes.

 

The whole "I'm not responsible for my government's crimes" excuse can be used by someone who lives under a totalitarian or dictatorial state, but not by someone who lives in the US, EU or a democracy.  It's a lame excuse.

 

 

Yes, I live in a democracy and therefore have supreme executive power and am therefore personally responsible for everything done by the people I didn't vote for.

[HoonDing]

just updating ISIS instagram

 

 

welcome to Yurop

[Meshugger]

^Funny how it is considered treason on most countries and cultures on what they are doing, as in able men in their 20's and 30's fleeing a war in their country.

 

Perhaps they are just homosexuals seeking protection though.

[BruceVC]

 

The refugees are the consequence of EU and NATO's unsavory interference to oust Assad and destabilize Syria.  We all know why the US and EU want to get rid of Assad: so that the US and EU can replace Assad with another tyrant who will work for the Western interests and take orders from the West (especially the US).  That's what it's been all about.

 

The West has been making concerted efforts to destabilize and create chaos in the Middle East, causing mass deaths and destruction via its direct and proxy campaigns.  The Western-backed wars and chaos have created the refugees who are now flooding into and overwhelming EU.  Now the karma bitch strikes back: those refugees will likely be the end of the Western civilization from within in the long run. There is a sweet, ironic ring of karma to it. It's almost like the universe is restoring the balance by punishing the real perpetrators.

 

So don't you white people cry and whine about refugees and immigrants destroying your countries and nations: you sowed the seeds, and now you are reaping the fruits. It is your own doing. You guys very much deserve it.  The only pity is the the US - a main perpetrator of wars, chaos, deaths and suffering in the region - are not being flooded by refugees from Syria, Iraq and Libya.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So don't you white people cry and whine about refugees and immigrants destroying your countries and nations: you sowed the seeds, and now you are reaping the fruits. It is your own doing. You guys very much deserve it.

The logical conclusion of liberal identity politics.

 

 

Except I'm Asian.  The whole conservative vs liberal ("white guilt") thing is mostly a white people's thing.  I'm just an observer. 

 

You keep crying and whining about the refugees flooding into Europe.  But ask yourselves: who and what created the refugee crisis in the first place?    You know as well as I do the refugees are an outcome of the Syrian civil war, which is backed by the West.  It is not a secret.  You created the mess, so now you suffer the consequences (in the form of the refugees.)

 

You did not see the karma coming when you decide to screw over Syria, Libya, Iraq and rest of the Middle East, did you?

 

This is the biggest bunch of anti-Western BS I have heard on these forums in ages

 

I disagree with so much of what you saying but lets start with the basics of your spurious diatribe

 

Do you not accept that the Arab Spring was real and started in 2010? This  movement and consciousness spread through most Arab countries in the ME and North Africa. The objectives of the Arab Spring varied from country to country and had different success criteria

 

The civil war in Syria was started as a result of the Arab Spring and greater rights and political representation that large numbers of Syrians understandably aspired to

 

The Arab Spring was NOT initiated or created or funded by the West, it was an inevitable movement that would been swept through the ME eventually. People do naturally want greater rights and economic opportunities...they don't need the West to tell them   " you should want more political rights and better work prospects " 

 

So please lets leave the anti-Western conspiracy theories at home  

[BruceVC]

 

The refugees are the consequence of EU and NATO's unsavory interference to oust Assad and destabilize Syria.  We all know why the US and EU want to get rid of Assad: so that the US and EU can replace Assad with another tyrant who will work for the Western interests and take orders from the West (especially the US).  That's what it's been all about.

 

The West has been making concerted efforts to destabilize and create chaos in the Middle East, causing mass deaths and destruction via its direct and proxy campaigns.  The Western-backed wars and chaos have created the refugees who are now flooding into and overwhelming EU.  Now the karma bitch strikes back: those refugees will likely be the end of the Western civilization from within in the long run. There is a sweet, ironic ring of karma to it. It's almost like the universe is restoring the balance by punishing the real perpetrators.

 

So don't you white people cry and whine about refugees and immigrants destroying your countries and nations: you sowed the seeds, and now you are reaping the fruits. It is your own doing. You guys very much deserve it.  The only pity is the the US - a main perpetrator of wars, chaos, deaths and suffering in the region - are not being flooded by refugees from Syria, Iraq and Libya.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So don't you white people cry and whine about refugees and immigrants destroying your countries and nations: you sowed the seeds, and now you are reaping the fruits. It is your own doing. You guys very much deserve it.

The logical conclusion of liberal identity politics.

 

 

Except I%2

[Darkpriest]

@Bruce

 

The problem is not the so called "Arab spring", the problem is, involvment in thos events from outside...

 

THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE IT ON THEIR OWN!!!!!!!!!

 

No need for airstrikes, logistic support, military advisors, up to a real troops support...

 

Perhaps they would succeed, perhaps they would fail, but whatever would happen would be reflection of real internal support and power.

 

There is a reason why the only types of countries which are stable, are the ones with represive monarchy (Saudis, etc), dictatorships (Iran), or very strong military lobby (Turkey, Egypt)...

 

If we would not get involved into ME at all, it would be best for all... let them fight their own fights on their own... You can voice support for such ideas, but for whatever you values sake, DO NOT GET INVOLVED...

 

Your lack of local perspective and knowledge, plus simple ignorance for over 4000 years culture, will only make things worse...

Edited September 8, 2015 by Darkpriest

[Woldan]

But they have teh oilz! And that needs to be controlled.

[Elerond]

^Funny how it is considered treason on most countries and cultures on what they are doing, as in able men in their 20's and 30's fleeing a war in their country.

 

Perhaps they are just homosexuals seeking protection though.

 

In Syria's case it is difficult thing to decide which side one should fight if they want to protect their country, as country is currently ruled by Bashar al-Assad, who is considered by western nations to be dictator who is willing to use chemical weapons against civilian population. Other options are several militant opposition groups that are mostly considered being terrorist by western countries and who aren't offering anything bettern than al-Assad's regime. And then there is ISIL that is considered to be new Nazis by western countries and one of the worst terrorist organizations that world has seen, that preaches extremely radical Islam and is willing to do very horrendous things to those that opposite them and even those that support them in some cases if they break their extremists rules.

 

In case of Iraq things are bit muddier, although Iraq has currently government made of shia muslims, who don't seem to have ability to control their country and who look dis-favorably Iraq's sunni muslim minority (that was in power during Saddam Hussein's era), which has created inner conflict that is helped ISIL take control over large parts of Iraq.

 

Kurdi populations are oppressed in nearly every country they live in, although they seem to be people that are most willing to fight, probably because they see this crisis as opportunity to create new country for Kurdis.

 

Libya is currently absolute mess where nobody really has control over the country which has created in many place very lawless environment and power vacuum where one has hard time to determine who they should support to power.

 

Somalia has been in bad shape for long time now and current crisis in Middle East and north Africa has only made things worse. Although from western stand point there is government that has western support, but there are parts in Somalia where that government don't have any control over things, as they are controlled by extremists islamic groups.

 

Meaning that it can be difficult to choose side in war where every side fights against your interests and world views.

[Malcador]

 

 

EU should stop them at the perimeter (as a group, so the rich boys pay up) and then maybe try to allocate them in a reasonable way with screening. Maybe. But best way of doing this is to not focus on the human side too much, good intentions and all that

Hungary has basically fortified its border with Serbia, to no avail. There's just too many of them coming. A lot of them come in really crappy boats too, and the navies and coast patrols are over capacity just rescuing people from wreckages. And even then a lot of them just drown.

 

It really is a ****ed up situation.

Well meant all member states sending people. But no EU military, so whoops

[Meshugger]

 

^Funny how it is considered treason on most countries and cultures on what they are doing, as in able men in their 20's and 30's fleeing a war in their country.

 

Perhaps they are just homosexuals seeking protection though.

 

In Syria's case it is difficult thing to decide which side one should fight if they want to protect their country, as country is currently ruled by Bashar al-Assad, who is considered by western nations to be dictator who is willing to use chemical weapons against civilian population. Other options are several militant opposition groups that are mostly considered being terrorist by western countries and who aren't offering anything bettern than al-Assad's regime. And then there is ISIL that is considered to be new Nazis by western countries and one of the worst terrorist organizations that world has seen, that preaches extremely radical Islam and is willing to do very horrendous things to those that opposite them and even those that support them in some cases if they break their extremists rules.

 

In case of Iraq things are bit muddier, although Iraq has currently government made of shia muslims, who don't seem to have ability to control their country and who look dis-favorably Iraq's sunni muslim minority (that was in power during Saddam Hussein's era), which has created inner conflict that is helped ISIL take control over large parts of Iraq.

 

Kurdi populations are oppressed in nearly every country they live in, although they seem to be people that are most willing to fight, probably because they see this crisis as opportunity to create new country for Kurdis.

 

Libya is currently absolute mess where nobody really has control over the country which has created in many place very lawless environment and power vacuum where one has hard time to determine who they should support to power.

 

Somalia has been in bad shape for long time now and current crisis in Middle East and north Africa has only made things worse. Although from western stand point there is government that has western support, but there are parts in Somalia where that government don't have any control over things, as they are controlled by extremists islamic groups.

 

Meaning that it can be difficult to choose side in war where every side fights against your interests and world views.

 

 

No history is written by cowards.

[Raithe]

Well, frankly the whole thing is set up by several variant cultures from quite different backgrounds that have a few hundred years of history driving the various elements.  Okay, to be fair, it's more like a millennia and some loose change of history driving it all.

 

Sure, the last 20 years of global politics are much more distinct in shaping it, but a lot of the slow, grinding, driving forces have been laid down for a whole heap of time.

[213374U]

No history is written by cowards.

 

"Cowards" get to see history for themselves, though. Usually from a safe distance.

 

As for subsidiary responsibility of the average citizen for the actions of their governments in Western democracies, it's a fascinating theory. Doesn't work so well in practice, though. (cf. Alexis Tsipras)

Edited September 8, 2015 by 213374U

[Drowsy Emperor]

I don't even need to say anything on this topic as everyone is well aware of my stance on Islamic immigration to Europe. That was my stance before this happened, now I've no words left for the suicidal, self loathing lunacy of European elites. Generations of men died in droves, fighting endless wars and battles, to keep Europe safe from Islam, including the Balkan states (of which Hungary seems to be the only one with any sense).

 

Now, it seems, Europe doesn't have enough cultural identity left to recognize the old adage that history repeats itself first as a tragedy and then as farce. What's happening now is definitely farcical. Thus, Europe probably deserves no better than what's coming to it in a few generations when the newcomers multiply tenfold, filled with malice and hatred toward everything European.

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

EU should stop them at the perimeter (as a group, so the rich boys pay up) and then maybe try to allocate them in a reasonable way with screening. Maybe. But best way of doing this is to not focus on the human side too much, good intentions and all that

 

Hungary has basically fortified its border with Serbia, to no avail. There's just too many of them coming. A lot of them come in really crappy boats too, and the navies and coast patrols are over capacity just rescuing people from wreckages. And even then a lot of them just drown.

 

It really is a ****ed up situation.

 

 

Come on man, surely you realize they're being let in from the top. If a bunch of them were shot the way they would be on the borders of Saudi Arabia - they'd never even attempt to get in (why aren't they going there at all, hmm).  They know they'll get in so they push until it happens. Numbers are completely irrelevant here, the lack of consequences is.

 

Have you seen the immigrant rioting in Budapest and Greece? Do you think that sort of thing would fly in Europe of just a few decades ago? 

Edited September 8, 2015 by Drowsy Emperor

[Drowsy Emperor]

Ok guys, what's going on here in this thread? This is the anti-version of my facebook feed, and most importantly, the anti-version of what the media is broadcasting. People giving up their homes for refugee housing, young women welcoming them with cheers and banderollas, spontaenous food & clothing donations and so on and so on.

 

It's like that the media outcry is manufactured or something.

 

The citizenry of the european countries is livid over this, but you'll never see that on TV. It is as I said on the other thread, its like the USSR pre-collapse: the official ideology is at utter odds with the opinion of the majority.