White Privilege ?

[Gfted1]

 

What color was Jesus? Its only been 2015 years since his death, why don't we have factual records?

Gfted1 I imagine you are wracked with "white privilege guilt " ? 

 

 

It must be hard carrying around that messiah complex.

 

But no, I bear no guilt of my forefathers.

[Volourn]

L0L Bruce got SJW'ed.

[BruceVC]

 

 

What color was Jesus? Its only been 2015 years since his death, why don't we have factual records?

Gfted1 I imagine you are wracked with "white privilege guilt " ? 

 

 

It must be hard carrying around that messiah complex.

 

But no, I bear no guilt of my forefathers.

 

 

You sure, no judgement here ? 

 

 

 

But just to be clear, I feel absolutely no guilt because I had nothing to do with Apartheid. I was too young. I feel terrible for the dehumanizing impact Apartheid had on people and I believe it was an abhorrent system. But thats not the same as guilt 

 

My commitment to the future of a prosperous multiracial South Africa is more about the fact it can work if we all contribute and understand our level of responsibility as white people  

[BruceVC]

L0L Bruce got SJW'ed.

 

 

Yeah it was a shock.....I was really surprised because it was the last thing I expected....but its fine. I have learnt how to avoid it next time

[Malcador]

What color was Jesus? Its only been 2015 years since his death, why don't we have factual records?

1982, or so, no ?

[BruceVC]

Okay so I clarified my point and I settled any misunderstandings. But I also have accepted that white South Africans do have white privilege after listening to the  talk show host  explain a few things about  how black South Africans were effected from Apartheid 

 

What I overlooked is even if Apartheid didn't give all white people an economic advantage we have family structures that go back generations ...and  the reality is Apartheid really devastated the black family structure. So just from that perspective I have to recognize white privilege  from a South African perspective ...of course this doesn't change the issues we face now but we need to admit it 

[GhoulishVisage]

Regardless of the status of your privilege due to your skin-color, your race is not something that should be used to dismiss your criticisms of the government.

[teknoman2]

 

wouldn't God almost necessarily be black?  God makes man in his image, and first man is from Africa, so...

 

plus, with john huston being dead, who other than morgan freeman could play the role o' God?  am thinking God would have prescience to consider casting choices.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

People have just understood bible's message wrong and god actually looks like sahelanthropus tchadensis, not homo sapiens  

 

there is no god... only the force

seriously now, the whole "white privilege" thing reminds me of a joke.

a man was praying to god

"please god help me, my neighbour has a donkey and i dont"

god responds to him and says

"then i sall give you a donkey too"

and the man says

"no, i want you to kill the neighbour's donkey"

 

all small minded people (who usually call themselves open minded) think that the solution is not to give everyone a chance to go up the stairs, but to block the stairs so nobody can go up because some are unable or unwilling to put in the effort needed to climb.

[Gorth]

 

Your White Privilege will mean nothing in front of God.

 

Except God is white too.

 

 

I guess all those little Chuck Norris effigies I planned to sell are worthless then

 

I've spent most of my life shamelessly abusing my "white mans privileges", coming from a functional family, having an education, a passport that opens most borders and then went ahead and used it to live a life with only the problems I create for myself. Not so much a "racist" as a cultural imperialist, believeing in self determination, self reliance and generally not being a jerk (and looking down on various "-isms").

 

If somebody presented me with allegations of being "privileged", my response would pretty much be, just like you, I was born the way I am and I try to make the best of it.

[Barothmuk]

The problem with arguments relating to white privilege is that no one has actually read anything on it and just base their arguments on 10th-hand accounts of it they've skimmed on the internet.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Barothmuk

[teknoman2]

The problem with arguments relating to white privilege is that no one has actually read anything on it and just base their arguments on 10th-hand accounts of it they've skimmed on the internet.

White privilege is simply the politically correct term for "racism vs white people"

Its an excuse used by the lazy and incompetent to justify their shortcomings by dumping the blame on those who try to be more successful.

 

To use an example that my mother encountered. There was a imigrant girl in the school she works as a teacher. In her old school she was treated with contempt and was bullied just because she was a foreigner. When she came in my mother's school, she met a friendlier enviroment, the rest of the kids played with her, nobody bullied her, she made friends and could finally focus on her studies again. She happens to be very smart so she was getting top grades and that, unfortunatelly, made her arrogant. She started seeing herself as the queen of the class, scorned others for having lower grades, acted all high and mighty etc. That thing made the other kids dislike her and slowly she lost all her friends and was left all alone. However she did not realise it was this sort of behaviour that was the problem, even when she was warned about it by my mother, and still keeps it up, thinking that the other kids became racist overnight and blaming them for everything. She may not be lazy or incompetent, but she used racism as a scrapegoat to justify her lack of manners and the result of it

 

Also to use a USA example, the "gangsta culture" has been associated with black people because the vast majority of it's promoters are black singers. That fact  makes it both appealing to the young blacks and a reason for everyone else to see any black person (especially the young) as a potential gang member out for blood. They cause the problem themselves but they call others racists to dump away responsibility for the monster they made. I'm not saying racism does not exist but not everything happens because of it... if you are looking for trouble and you find it, it's not the trouble's fault whatever form it may have.

Edited July 23, 2015 by teknoman2

[BruceVC]

Regardless of the status of your privilege due to your skin-color, your race is not something that should be used to dismiss your criticisms of the government.

Yes you are correct, the talk show hosts absolutely dismissed how I was treated when I explained how I was treated. It honestly didn't bother me but for them its the principle 

 

The problem with arguments relating to white privilege is that no one has actually read anything on it and just base their arguments on 10th-hand accounts of it they've skimmed on the internet.

 Says the guy living in the first world country, you may know the theory but I live the practical   . Also I would think black South Africans would  understand it?

 

But I assume you aren't talking to me, I know you have some good opinions on this. Can you share them as I am interested. Also since it is now relevant since you raised it but what is your connection to these types of SJ issues? Are you a minority?

 

I don't mean to pry but I have been very honest about my connection so it would be great if other people also involved could share there connection 

[Zoraptor]

'X' Privilege is a classic leftist debating tactic. It's very clever - you win the meta-debate by defining the intellectual battle-space.

 

It's a classic left/ right agnostic debating tactic. Privilege arguments suggest you should be embarrassed by accidents of birth, the rightest equivalent is to suggest that any poor person is such because they just don't try and just don't work hard enough- or there's the classic Randian 'parasite' label if you prefer. Same rhetorical coin, different face.

 

 

The problem with arguments relating to white privilege is that no one has actually read anything on it and just base their arguments on 10th-hand accounts of it they've skimmed on the internet.

White privilege is simply the politically correct term for "racism vs white people"

 

 

Nah, it is at least in part real and not just racism vs white people. That there are certain inherent biases in society is obvious, in the end that is all that privilege theory itself is about, and so far as that goes it's valid to examine. The zealots tend to take things to extremes and make the word a caricature and apologists tend to use it to make excuses, but they do that for all sorts of things not just white/ male/ whatever privilege labels.

 

Really though, Ineth was right posts back in that money is the biggest 'privilege' there is and trumps anything else.

[Gfted1]

You sure, no judgement here ?

Yep, Im sure. Slept like a baby last night.

[BruceVC]

 

The problem with arguments relating to white privilege is that no one has actually read anything on it and just base their arguments on 10th-hand accounts of it they've skimmed on the internet.

White privilege is simply the politically correct term for "racism vs white people"

Its an excuse used by the lazy and incompetent to justify their shortcomings by dumping the blame on those who try to be more successful.

 

To use an example that my mother encountered. There was a imigrant girl in the school she works as a teacher. In her old school she was treated with contempt and was bullied just because she was a foreigner. When she came in my mother's school, she met a friendlier enviroment, the rest of the kids played with her, nobody bullied her, she made friends and could finally focus on her studies again. She happens to be very smart so she was getting top grades and that, unfortunatelly, made her arrogant. She started seeing herself as the queen of the class, scorned others for having lower grades, acted all high and mighty etc. That thing made the other kids dislike her and slowly she lost all her friends and was left all alone. However she did not realise it was this sort of behaviour that was the problem, even when she was warned about it by my mother, and still keeps it up, thinking that the other kids became racist overnight and blaming them for everything. She may not be lazy or incompetent, but she used racism as a scrapegoat to justify her lack of manners and the result of it

 

Also to use a USA example, the "gangsta culture" has been associated with black people because the vast majority of it's promoters are black singers. That fact  makes it both appealing to the young blacks and a reason for everyone else to see any black person (especially the young) as a potential gang member out for blood. They cause the problem themselves but they call others racists to dump away responsibility for the monster they made. I'm not saying racism does not exist but not everything happens because of it... if you are looking for trouble and you find it, it's not the trouble's fault whatever form it may have.

 

I know many people may see it like this but it is more complicated than this especially when you consider a country like South Africa 

 

Yes I am exposed to " racism " from some black South Africans but its not meaningful and is more a sign of frustration

 

Its hard to explain but I'll try. Last night when I phoned in to that first radio station I was absolutely confidant that I didn't need to accept white privilege because I really believe in the multiracial transformation of the country and I felt that guilt was pointless considering all the effort I put  to ensure racial harmony

 

Anyway I asked the black talk show host " what is white privilege and what am I suppose to do about it " ...he honestly didn't know and said he felt it was just black people being racist themselves because obviously they know me and not all black people believe it 

 

Then a few other people phone in, I was expecting the usual semi-aggressive black people trying to use strange logic to justify this concept of " white privilege " which obviously wasn't real 

 

Then an older black guy, he sounded in his 50's,  phoned in and in broken English he started trying to make a point. He was actually very emotional ...he was in tears and he basically kept saying " why can't white people accept white privilege ...thats all we want  them to say....why can't they accept it " but obviously he didn't say it as obviously. The talk show host who is a very bright guy didn't understand him and kept asking him to repeat himself and he kept trying to make his point until finally he made it and I suddenly understood

 

This older black guy is  sadly a causality  of Apartheid, he will never get a job as he was never properly educated under Apartheid and in the new South Africa he is also not  really marketable due to his age and lack of experience . He understands that he is now free but what is freedom without a semblance of economic freedom yet despite the fact he is  basically a shadow in this new South Africa he still listens to a radio talk show where people discuss new opportunities and how to improve the country.

 

He didn't ask for anything....he didn't want  to verbally insult me ( which never bothers me )...he just wanted me to accept white privilege because for him this was all that mattered. He didnt have anything yet that obviously was like some kind of important justification for all his suffering. It hit me emotionally really hard when I thought how good my life is yet I also realized " look what we  (I  dont mean me I mean white South Africans who supported Apartheid  ) did ...look what Apartheid has done. It has truly destroyed the consciousness and identity of people "....most white people are actually fine in the new South Africa yet we forget there is whole generation of " lost" black people like him

 

So how could I not accept my role in  white privilege...thats all he was asking for and it was valid and true when you are confronted by it.  I am probably not explaining it properly but it was very emotional moment for me. All these years and all these insults and people trying to force me to admit something I always dismissed ..and just like that I could see it 

 

And the next talk show host made a similar point. 

[Blarghagh]

So you accepted it because someone went "muh feelz".

[Ineth]

The problem with arguments relating to white privilege is that no one has actually read anything on it and just base their arguments on 10th-hand accounts of it they've skimmed on the internet.

 

Yeah, how dare those plebs use their own reasoning and moral intuition to discuss things, and assume that the burden is on the accuser to bring across the meaning of his/her accusation.

 

Don't they know that when accused with a fancy made-up word, they're supposed to duck and nod and go quietly read the Marxist sociologist elite's treatises on the topic and Listen And Believe™...

 

[teknoman2]

 

'X' Privilege is a classic leftist debating tactic. It's very clever - you win the meta-debate by defining the intellectual battle-space.

 

It's a classic left/ right agnostic debating tactic. Privilege arguments suggest you should be embarrassed by accidents of birth, the rightest equivalent is to suggest that any poor person is such because they just don't try and just don't work hard enough- or there's the classic Randian 'parasite' label if you prefer. Same rhetorical coin, different face.

 

 

The problem with arguments relating to white privilege is that no one has actually read anything on it and just base their arguments on 10th-hand accounts of it they've skimmed on the internet.

White privilege is simply the politically correct term for "racism vs white people"

 

 

Nah, it is at least in part real and not just racism vs white people. That there are certain inherent biases in society is obvious, in the end that is all that privilege theory itself is about, and so far as that goes it's valid to examine. The zealots tend to take things to extremes and make the word a caricature and apologists tend to use it to make excuses, but they do that for all sorts of things not just white/ male/ whatever privilege labels.

 

Really though, Ineth was right posts back in that money is the biggest 'privilege' there is and trumps anything else.

 

The thing is though, that most people do not look for the causes of these biases. to have a privilege it takes constant work to maintain prominent the reasons why you have it. Had those who do not have the privilege followed your example they could get it as well, but they choose to blame you for having it instead of working to obtain it

It's like working at a company. I go on time, do my job properly, have a good relationship with my coworkers and my superiors, have the respect of those who work under me and i get some benefits from it, like more chances at a raise/promotion, less chance to be fired in case of cuts, the odd bonus and so on. 

Now someone who is lazy, uncooperative and unproductive, he would get none of the benefits i get and would be fired as soon as a replacement was available. 

I did not get where i am because i have a privilege... i have the privilege because i worked to get to where i am. I worked to get that privilege and had he worked as i did he would have it as well but he chose not to. Blaming me for having it does not automatically make him eligible for it

 

Bruce, i see what your point is and i know that in SA things went really wrong with the Apartheid... i can also understand the reason for the frustration of that man. still, besides the problems a certain generation faced because of a situation, the page has turned and the new generation has the possibility for something better. The "white privilege" was an actual thing durring the Apartheid and for some time after it, since there was a kind of master-slave relationship between whites and blacks. The problem of the term "white privilege" now, is when this new generation tries to lazily capitalize on the problems of their fathers/grandfathers, in order to obtain an unfair advantage through "feelz" manipulation... "woe is me, my black dad never got an education so now that im in school i must get top grades without studying and get free access to any university because white privilege" 

Edited July 23, 2015 by teknoman2

[BruceVC]

 

The problem with arguments relating to white privilege is that no one has actually read anything on it and just base their arguments on 10th-hand accounts of it they've skimmed on the internet.

 

Yeah, how dare those plebs use their own reasoning and moral intuition to discuss things, and assume that the burden is on the accuser to bring across the meaning of his/her accusation.

 

Don't they know that when accused with a fancy made-up word, they're supposed to duck and nod and go quietly read the Marxist sociologist elite's treatises on the topic and Listen And Believe™...

 

 

  

 

You funny Ineth but I  am hoping Baro does respond with RL information and personal experiences. I believe he has something to add....well he always alludes to it 

 

So you accepted it because someone went "muh feelz".

I have to be honest I would have thought you would be one of the people who understood my post and reasoning?

[Orogun01]

The thing is that some of us don't subscribe to the school of cultural relativism and know that there are views that are inherently superior to others. People wallowing in contempt while doing nothing to improve their condition is very unproductive.  

[Lexx]

Everyone is talking about white privilege, but I am sitting here wondering... How do I not offend anyone with my white privilege? That's a honest question, because I have no idea.

[BruceVC]

The thing is that some of us don't subscribe to the school of cultural relativism and know that there are views that are inherently superior to others. People wallowing in contempt while doing nothing to improve their condition is very unproductive.  

 

Sure, but lets be fair here. You are a far more intelligent and confident person than most of the black people who suffered under Apartheid ....despite the fact you have also had tough experiences you came out stronger in many ways and that worked for you. So I get your personal view of not having much sympathy because if you can do it you believe others can...and in most cases that would be true but not in this case ....you need to accept you are Cuban....Cubans are not Africans

[BruceVC]

Everyone is talking about white privilege, but I am sitting here wondering... How do I not offend anyone with my white privilege? That's a honest question, because I have no idea.

Well the good news is because you are German you get a pass...and I'm not being facetious. Its valid

 

The Germans did commit some atrocities  in Namibia ( German SW Africa )  but that pales in comparison to what you did in WW1 and WW2.  Yet despite your entire country being utterly defeated and carved up  and your entire nation vilified you have rebuilt yourselves to an economic powerhouse ....its very impressive and is really testimony to the caliber and strength of German culture

 

People don't seem to want to recognize this but I will. That is why I got so annoyed when the Greeks and others were blaming the Germans for expecting Greece to pay back its loans

 

Your country had to do so much more and succeeded. I would be very proud to be German 

[Orogun01]

 

The thing is that some of us don't subscribe to the school of cultural relativism and know that there are views that are inherently superior to others. People wallowing in contempt while doing nothing to improve their condition is very unproductive.  

 

Sure, but lets be fair here. You are a far more intelligent and confident person than most of the black people who suffered under Apartheid ....despite the fact you have also had tough experiences you came out stronger in many ways and that worked for you. So I get your personal view of not having much sympathy because if you can do it you believe others can...and in most cases that would be true but not in this case ....you need to accept you are Cuban....Cubans are not Africans

 

What matters is ideology not just conditions, there have been some studies pointing out that middle class values lead inner city kids to success whilst the ones who embrace ghetto culture grow up into a life of crime. Generally speaking, smart  people are rare and not really a measure of the general population but First world general populations have more information available to them than Third World. But that has no bearing on the subject of will and morals, you can work towards making your life better while being a decent person without being a Rhodes scholar. It is what a lot of people do and who are unfairly paired with the worst examples of their ethnicity because some people have the misguided notion that other people's choices is somehow their fault and responsibility.

 

They are not children and they know right from wrong and there is a difference between a thief who draws the line at a moral relative and the ones who have no limits. Those things have nothing to do with culture.

[Blarghagh]

So you accepted it because someone went "muh feelz".

I have to be honest I would have thought you would be one of the people who understood my post and reasoning?

 

I do understand it. I just think it's bull. I know white privilege is a thing. I just don't care because acknowledging it, or not acknowledging it, makes absolutely no difference. The questions you originally posed still weren't answered - what does it mean for him that you acknowledged it? He feels a little better because someone who was dealt a good hand in life acknowledged him while he was dealt a **** hand. He was already dealt that **** hand, however, so acknowledging doesn't change that. Playing your cards in a way to help people with **** hands dealt to them or to give new hands being dealt a better chance of being good, that's meaningful. The fact that the hand you were dealt was good due to no control of your own is pointless to dwell upon. You claim you're already doing a lot to try to make it a better place for less fortunate people, to educate people about racism, etc. so what does this change for you, going forward? Are you going to help more than you already did? What does this change for the man who got you to acknowedge it, going forward? Are you going to help him, specifically? Why and how does it matter? Why is your white advantage constantly under scrutiny while it's their black disadvantage we need to be taking a closer look at?

 

The world would be a much better place if people pointing fingers and going "this person has an advantage I don't have, let's attack them" and started pointing fingers and going "this person has a disadvantage I don't have, let's help them" - more people would be helped, and less people would be polarized against those trying to help. Have you never stopped to wonder why so many people are now against those who talk about "social justice"? It's because they constantly focus on and attack people for **** that doesn't matter. So you've accepted your white privilege - so what?

 

Here's a way to look at it - I've lived with mental disorders for my entire life. Products of my formative environment, who I was born to, how my bodychemistry works. People who don't have to deal with depression, chemical imbalance, social anxiety etc. have a massive advantage over me. I could spend my time bitching at people to acknowledge they have it better than me and their problems don't matter as much as mine, but how does that help anyone? Instead, I try to talk to people who deal with the same thing and help them and raise awareness by pointing out my disadvantage instead of their advantage. Because the fact that someone I talk to is healthy doesn't change anything.