Journalism and bias in the gaming industry

[Malcador]

Selling well is hardly merit.

No ? For a game designer I'd think that would be one, you design games that sell well (or work on games that do) and that works in your favour when trying to get ahead in the industry. Was like that, somewhat, at Sierra, recall Jensen mentioning that Williams would give designers one chance and if it sold, then you'd move up and get another.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Malcador

[GhoulishVisage]

Being a fan of Troika I am well aware that brilliant games can sell poorly.
While the market can be effective at sorting the wheat from the chaff, success there does not always mean that it is a game that is either worthy of the praise it is given or the number of units it sells.

Very often gems slip through the cracks and mediocrity is held up as the gold standard.
Indeed, these days it seems that more often than not it is a game's marketing that determines whether something is a success or not.

Niche games tend to have more luck at becoming successful via word-of-mouth than games that try to aim for broad appeal.

[Malcador]

Hm ok, was looking at it in terms of a developer or designer succeeding in the industry via award or promotion and pay for their work.

[Malcador]

Double post

Edited June 22, 2015 by Malcador

[Blarghagh]

 

Selling well is hardly merit.

No ? For a game designer I'd think that would be one, you design games that sell well (or work on games that do) and that works in your favour when trying to get ahead in the industry. Was like that, somewhat, at Sierra, recall Jensen mentioning that Williams would give designers one chance and if it sold, then you'd move up and get another.

 

 

It doesn't have to mean you worked hard or put in a lot of effort. A lot of selling well is based on marketing or pure, dumb luck.

[GhoulishVisage]

[Hurlshort]

If selling well is not your priority as a game developer, you might as well consider it a hobby.  

[Malcador]

 

 

 

Selling well is hardly merit.

No ? For a game designer I'd think that would be one, you design games that sell well (or work on games that do) and that works in your favour when trying to get ahead in the industry. Was like that, somewhat, at Sierra, recall Jensen mentioning that Williams would give designers one chance and if it sold, then you'd move up and get another.

It doesn't have to mean you worked hard or put in a lot of effort. A lot of selling well is based on marketing or pure, dumb luck.

True, but you still move ahead based on that. You did right by the people cutting your paychecks, after all.

[Nonek]

I would have thought that with the shared iterative nature of game development an unfit for purpose team member is quickly flagged and dealt with, obviously this is before sales and possible success. After all what advice do experienced developers give to aspiring ones: Usually to prove themselves in practise with a mod, a small Flash game or something similar that proves their ability. This is appointment based on merit, and one would assume advancement based upon the same.

 

Look at Mr Sawyer, I believe he began at Interplay on the old boards and through success, his intelligence and let's face it the grit shown in making good games while a studio crumbled around him, he advanced. Now I know that it's unfashionable to praise Mr Sawyer as there is a little hate train aimed at the gentleman, but to my mind we need more developers like him, who study the medium, have clear ideas, hold interesting views and seek to really immerse themselves in the internal consistency of their world, and the minutiae.

[Hurlshort]

I am also pretty sure that even the most unoriginal and boring AAA title is still made by people working their tails off on art and programming.  The people phoning it in are most likely in management.  

[Nonek]

Usually those unoriginal and boring, even uninspired and broken games may have flashes of genius and genuine innovation as well, this is a creative medium staffed by people whom want to create and are passionate, they're not terrible, degenerate people as the media is stating.

[cirdanx]

Usually those unoriginal and boring, even uninspired and broken games may have flashes of genius and genuine innovation as well, this is a creative medium staffed by people whom want to create and are passionate, they're not terrible, degenerate people as the media is stating.

Sometimes they are, we have seen such devs in the past. Thats natural, they come up. In most cases i would say you are right, it is a creative industry. Sadly run by publishers and their respective shareholders. So we will still see more COD shooters being financed (which is fine, the sell well) rather than cRPG´s. Which is a niche, and is also fine. The real sad thing here is that publishers like EA or Activison think that this genres are exclusive. While, and i must say respect, Ubisoft went, "wait a moment..lets fund some small games and see what happens" and suddenly they had 2 of the most successfully games that year. This war of mine, child of light, were big success compared to cost and brought in money.

 

That won´t  change the current market, but it´s a good example on how the industry works. Blind would be the nicest thing i could say, especially if you factor in things like kickstarter, patreon etc. who found mostly games that would otherwise be dead because Publishers, not devs, Publishers decided it wouldn´t make enough money. Well, their loss really.

Edited June 23, 2015 by cirdanx

[Calax]

 

Usually those unoriginal and boring, even uninspired and broken games may have flashes of genius and genuine innovation as well, this is a creative medium staffed by people whom want to create and are passionate, they're not terrible, degenerate people as the media is stating.

Sometimes they are, we have seen such devs in the past. Thats natural, they come up. In most cases i would say you are right, it is a creative industry. Sadly run by publishers and their respective shareholders. So we will still see more COD shooters being financed (which is fine, the sell well) rather than cRPG´s. Which is a niche, and is also fine. The real sad thing here is that publishers like EA or Activison think that this genres are exclusive. While, and i must say respect, Ubisoft went, "wait a moment..lets fund some small games and see what happens" and suddenly they had 2 of the most successfully games that year. This war of mine, child of light, were big success compared to cost and brought in money.

 

That won´t  change the current market, but it´s a good example on how the industry works. Blind would be the nicest thing i could say, especially if you factor in things like kickstarter, patreon etc. who found mostly games that would otherwise be dead because Publishers, not devs, Publishers decided it wouldn´t make enough money. Well, their loss really.

 

Honestly we're seeing far more innovation on the side of the AA/budget titles than AAA. Call of Juarez was funner to me than any of the CoD's of recent years (ok Advanced Warfare was awesome), and it was a fairly low budget game that did some really interesting stuff with the narrative and design. But most people haven't even heard of it because A) the critical and fan backlash to the Cartels racist/mysoginist style and B) it had NO PR behind it.

[Volourn]

"Selling well is hardly merit."

 

Yes, it is. If youa re selling a product or service and nobody buys it  than  its not merited - no matter hwo specific individuals think of it.

 

I perosnally loathe the ES series. But, obviously, it has sold a lot so it is merited.

 

I liked Troika's games for the most part - but not enough did - so it did not merit success.

 

PERIOD.

[Namutree]

Just played Stormfront or SJW for the first time. 11/12 right for me. Guess I'm just good at telling the difference (and I got a little lucky).

[Oerwinde]

Just played Stormfront or SJW for the first time. 11/12 right for me. Guess I'm just good at telling the difference (and I got a little lucky).

Some of them are really obvious. I got like 5 in a row that were really tough, then everything after were obvious.

[Meshugger]

Isn't the point of the test that you're either full Sensitive Joss Whedon or Stormfronter if you score full?

[Meshugger]

Oh,

 

https://archive.is/uwgPG

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X546RqY1OBw

 

It seems like Leigh Alexander's PR company didn't bring the expected sales.

 

//edit: MOAR http://blogjob.com/oneangrygamer/2015/06/sunset-devs-shutting-down-states-advertising-on-sjw-sites-didnt-help/

Edited June 23, 2015 by Meshugger

[GhoulishVisage]

Adrian Chmielars, the man behind games like Painkiller, Bulletstorm and The Vanishing of Ethan Carter has a good write-up on the closure of Tale of Tales:

http://www.theastronauts.com/2015/06/what-really-happened-to-tale-of-tales-sunset/

 

 

While I don't like to see anybody go out of business, my disposition to them gets somewhat soured when they go and say things like this:

[Bartimaeus]

Capitalism sucks when your ventures don't go anywhere (which, let's face it, seems like it can be a lot of the time, particularly if you're not an experienced and/or celebrated veteran)...capitalism sure does seem to rock when they do work out, though.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Bartimaeus

[Meshugger]

Capitalism for some, walking simulators for others

[Blarghagh]

If selling well is not your priority as a game developer, you might as well consider it a hobby.  

 

How much do you think the technical rigging artist affects how well a game sells?

[Ineth]

Adrian Chmielars, the man behind games like Painkiller, Bulletstorm and The Vanishing of Ethan Carter has a good write-up on the closure of Tale of Tales:

 

http://www.theastronauts.com/2015/06/what-really-happened-to-tale-of-tales-sunset/

 

 

While I don't like to see anybody go out of business, my disposition to them gets somewhat soured when they go and say things like this:

 

Wow, that moon-sized entitlement mixed with willful economic illiteracy.

 

Those kinds of SJW indie devs seem to honestly believe that the world at large owes them money because they choose to spend their time delivering a 1st year sociology essay in multimedia form and call it a "game", and that big bad capitalism is preventing them from getting what they're owed.

 

[Malcador]

Maybe this is the immediate anger of experiencing failure. I hope anyway, else I'll almost get a sense of glee of them shutting down.

[Nonek]

 

Adrian Chmielars, the man behind games like Painkiller, Bulletstorm and The Vanishing of Ethan Carter has a good write-up on the closure of Tale of Tales:

 

http://www.theastronauts.com/2015/06/what-really-happened-to-tale-of-tales-sunset/

 

 

While I don't like to see anybody go out of business, my disposition to them gets somewhat soured when they go and say things like this:

 

Wow, that moon-sized entitlement mixed with willful economic illiteracy.

 

Those kinds of SJW indie devs seem to honestly believe that the world at large owes them money because they choose to spend their time delivering a 1st year sociology essay in multimedia form and call it a "game", and that big bad capitalism is preventing them from getting what they're owed.

 

 

 

In fairness they were schooled to think like that by being funded by the evil capitalists tax money for many years (never objecting about that supposed evil,) now when they release a poor game that has to stand on its own merits, and the market shrugs, well their reaction is obvious: It's not our fault, it's the buyers.

 

It's the usual victim mentality and easy demonisation of gamers, we've seen it from the beginning and it's par for the course. "To be united by hatred is a...fragile alliance at best."

Edited June 23, 2015 by Nonek