An old but endless discussion...the Backer Achievement

[Karkarov]

No one with any sense gives a rats ass about achievements.  Everyone I know who has huge achievement scores are some of the most pedantic, dumb, gamers I know.  They will do crap like buy a game on a steam sale just because they hear it is easy to beat and can score X number of achievements with 1 clear.  Then they download a guide, beat it once for their easy points, then delete it.

 

Getting all achievements =/= doing 100% a game has to offer.  In fact it is normally quite the opposite.

[quechn1tlan]

Achievements are a plight that came from the need to pad the console games that otherwise lacked in meaningful content. Off with them altogether, I say.

[BruceVC]

No one with any sense gives a rats ass about achievements.  Everyone I know who has huge achievement scores are some of the most pedantic, dumb, gamers I know.  They will do crap like buy a game on a steam sale just because they hear it is easy to beat and can score X number of achievements with 1 clear.  Then they download a guide, beat it once for their easy points, then delete it.

 

Getting all achievements =/= doing 100% a game has to offer.  In fact it is normally quite the opposite.

No come on, you can't be serious....are there really people you know who are that painfully pedantic?

[majestic]

Achievements are a plight that came from the need to pad the console games that otherwise lacked in meaningful content. Off with them altogether, I say.

 

Well, no... achievements are a somewhat logical evolution of high score tables and can be a fun way to add replayability and bragging rights for those who earned them. Can they be used to pad games lacking in "meaningful" content? Sure. Much like pretty graphics can, just look at all those Michael Bay Shooters these days, or every year's new iterations of sports games where the only extra content is often reduced to updated graphics and name changes due to some license.

 

If there is one thing that bothers me with PoE's achievements is that they're not available on all sales platforms. I got mine from GOG and therefor have no achievements to complete, same as with Wasteland 2, and before someone mentions it, let me save you the time: Yes, I would like them for bragging rights. If I'm better than the majority and there is a way to I OF COURSE want to show off. The Steam DRM tradeoff isn't worth it for me tough. Yet. *sigh*

Edited May 3, 2015 by majestic

[Wintersong]

Not trying to start a flame war here, so please everyone be constructive be it backers or not.

 

What do you guys think of this: http://steamcommunity.com/app/291650/discussions/0/618459405713237908/#p2

People should be more concerned about achieving real stuff and not so much about videogame achievements. 

[scrotiemcb]

Backer achievement is paid-to-win.

[Cybersquirt]

I am a backer and didn't get that one either.. ask me if I really care..

[Katarack21]

In-game backer and preorder exclusives suck. Period. Even cosmetic stuff.

 

And an exclusive backer achievement that prevents later buyers from getting 100%? That's f***ed up.

 

I say that as a backer and someone who doesn't bother with achievements in most games.

Pre-order exclusives and built-in-but-need-to-unlock-DLC suck. Backer exclusives are a different thing.

 

The Backer achievement was available to *everybody* at the same time. If somebody didn't get it, sorry--they had the same opportunity at the same time as anybody else. It's a reward for the people who spent the time and money to support the game so it could be made at all. This is literally just people bitching and whining because people get pissy whenever somebody else has something they don't--regardless of whether that's an earned reward or just bull**** given away (this is the first).

[Elerond]

When Obsidian launched their Kickstarter for PoE quite lot of first day backers spoke against backer only achievement, pet and item, but in that point there wasn't anymore anything that Obsidian could do as Kickstarter don't allow removing promised rewards on levels that have backers and when they promise something as reward they are actually legally binded to deliver it. Although if they decided to breach the contract that they made with backers by changing those rewards so that everybody that has bought the game can have them, then I would be quite surprised if somebody would sue them for breach of contract, but it would make at least some people think twice before they trust anything that Obsidian promises in future and  such thing isn't usually good for business.

 

But anyway and on the actual point of this message, if somebody really wants that KS achievement and don't want use hacks to get it, then you are on luck as I have couple keys for the KS edition of the game and I am willing to sell them with quite reasonable price. If you are interested sent me private message.     

[Miraklum]

When Obsidian launched their Kickstarter for PoE quite lot of first day backers spoke against backer only achievement, pet and item, but in that point there wasn't anymore anything that Obsidian could do as Kickstarter don't allow removing promised rewards on levels that have backers and when they promise something as reward they are actually legally binded to deliver it. Although if they decided to breach the contract that they made with backers by changing those rewards so that everybody that has bought the game can have them, then I would be quite surprised if somebody would sue them for breach of contract, but it would make at least some people think twice before they trust anything that Obsidian promises in future and  such thing isn't usually good for business.

 

But anyway and on the actual point of this message, if somebody really wants that KS achievement and don't want use hacks to get it, then you are on luck as I have couple keys for the KS edition of the game and I am willing to sell them with quite reasonable price. If you are interested sent me private message.     

 

Not interested not a backer

 

Be careful not to post that on steam because they will eat you alive :biggrin:

[InsaneCommander]

I'd rather play a game several times doing what I think is fun than check the achievements and play in a way to get them.

[SeekDWay]

What gives?

 

Just another thread with an overly exaggerated title about a topic that most people don't give a **** about.

Edited May 4, 2015 by SeekDWay

[Katarack21]

I'd rather play a game several times doing what I think is fun than check the achievements and play in a way to get them.

[ddillon]

Pre-order exclusives and built-in-but-need-to-unlock-DLC suck. Backer exclusives are a different thing.

The Backer achievement was available to *everybody* at the same time. If somebody didn't get it, sorry--they had the same opportunity at the same time as anybody else. It's a reward for the people who spent the time and money to support the game so it could be made at all. This is literally just people bitching and whining because people get pissy whenever somebody else has something they don't--regardless of whether that's an earned reward or just bull**** given away (this is the first).

 

What about people who didn't know about the game until after pledging closed? And those who find the game six months from now? Those playing it five years from now? Screw them all cuz we got ours and don't give a s***?

 

Many preorder exclusives are "available to everybody". There is no significant difference between backer and preorder exclusives: You buy at a certain place at a certain time and you are rewarded for your support with a certain bonus. Both suck when that bonus is any kind of in-game content (even cosmetic items).

 

Here's another way to think about it: You are arguing to hurt some players by taking away something they want for the sake of players that don't even want that thing (see nearly every reply to this thread so far).

Edited May 4, 2015 by ddillon

[Karkarov]

No come on, you can't be serious....are there really people you know who are that painfully pedantic?

Yes.  They even brag about their xbox gamerscore where they rent games, play them for the easy achievements, then return them.  It is sort of sad.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

What about people who didn't know about the game until after pledging closed? And those who find the game six months from now? Those playing it five years from now? Screw them all cuz we got ours and don't give a s***?

 

Many preorder exclusives are "available to everybody". There is no significant difference between backer and preorder exclusives: You buy at a certain place at a certain time and you are rewarded for your support with a certain bonus. Both suck when that bonus is any kind of in-game content (even cosmetic items).

 

Here's another way to think about it: You are arguing to hurt some players by taking away something they want for the sake of players that don't even want that thing (see nearly every reply to this thread so far).

 

 

What about people who didn't know about the game from 35 years ago and missed out on getting all their achievements? 

[Bryy]

 

 

And an exclusive backer achievement that prevents later buyers from getting 100%?

Um, what?

 

As far as I know, achievements don't stop you from doing a competionist run.

 

I've never understood completionists, nor Achievement Completionists.

 

Don't be dense. 100% achievement completion. Not possible if not a backer.

 

Doesn't matter that it's not important to you or me. Some value it, and there's no good reason to deny it to them.

 

Oh please.

 

I'm all for making content for as many people to experience as possible, but:

1) Achievements are not content. Not unless they actually unlock something in the game itself.

2) The Backer Acheev was an incentive for people to donate more money. If some people are pissed off that they don't have a reward that is exclusively for people that paid actual money towards the creation of the game... I don't know what to say to that. We're not talking a pre-order acheev here. We're talking an acheev that was specifically made for a specific group of people to show appreciation for helping. To just hand it out because some other people that were not involved at all want to feel special for doing jack squat is not only counter-productive, but really rather offensive. They did nothing to earn that credit.

3) Why are you defending this behavior? This isn't a censorship issue, it's not about player rights, it's not even a DLC issue. Seriously, what do you think you are going to accomplish by defending others rights to complain?

 

Backer achievement is paid-to-win.

Best reply yet.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Bryy

[Katarack21]

 

There is no significant difference between backer and preorder exclusives

Yes, there is: One is a reward to loyal fans for having helped the game get made, the other is a cheap way to make extra money off people.

[Nakia]

If OE having made this a stretch goal is now legally obligated to provide it I do not know what the solution is.  The achievement does not interest me and I would happily do without it if it would make people stop complaining.

 

Is it fair to those who want to get all achievements so that they can make a game badge?  I do not think it is fair.

[ddillon]

I'm all for making content for as many people to experience as possible, but:

1) Achievements are not content. Not unless they actually unlock something in the game itself.

2) The Backer Acheev was an incentive for people to donate more money. If some people are pissed off that they don't have a reward that is exclusively for people that paid actual money towards the creation of the game... I don't know what to say to that. We're not talking a pre-order acheev here. We're talking an acheev that was specifically made for a specific group of people to show appreciation for helping. To just hand it out because some other people that were not involved at all want to feel special for doing jack squat is not only counter-productive, but really rather offensive. They did nothing to earn that credit.

3) Why are you defending this behavior? This isn't a censorship issue, it's not about player rights, it's not even a DLC issue. Seriously, what do you think you are going to accomplish by defending others rights to complain?

 

1) Some players do enjoy the challenge of getting all achievements and value the 100% badge. For them, achievements are a part of the game experience.

 

2) Achievements are supposed to be awarded for in-game accomplishments. These players are arguing against something that should never have been an achievement in the first place, not whining to get something they "did nothing to earn". In addition to being wholly inappropriate in that regard, the backer achievemet also prevents non-backers from getting 100% achievement completion and thus damages their experience. It's not difficult to understand why they complain about it.

 

3) I'm a gamer, and I don't want to see this s*** become common in an industry that I care about. Also: Empathy for fellow gamers. I might not enjoy achievements like they do, but I don't see any good reason to screw up part of their experience. There are better ways to reward backers or make them feel special.

Edited May 4, 2015 by ddillon

[Rosveen]

I'd like to point out that the backer achievement prevents even me, a backer, from getting 100% completion if I ever buy the game on Steam. I redeemed my backer key on GOG, so I can get only a regular copy on Steam.

 

I know there are cheats to enable achievements manually, but I believe they shouldn't be taken into account in this discussion.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Rosveen

[Gorbag]

So basically all they need to do is not count the backer achievement towards 100%? Seems simple enough.

[Elerond]

 

I'm all for making content for as many people to experience as possible, but:

1) Achievements are not content. Not unless they actually unlock something in the game itself.

2) The Backer Acheev was an incentive for people to donate more money. If some people are pissed off that they don't have a reward that is exclusively for people that paid actual money towards the creation of the game... I don't know what to say to that. We're not talking a pre-order acheev here. We're talking an acheev that was specifically made for a specific group of people to show appreciation for helping. To just hand it out because some other people that were not involved at all want to feel special for doing jack squat is not only counter-productive, but really rather offensive. They did nothing to earn that credit.

3) Why are you defending this behavior? This isn't a censorship issue, it's not about player rights, it's not even a DLC issue. Seriously, what do you think you are going to accomplish by defending others rights to complain?

1) Some players do enjoy the challenge of getting all achievements and value the 100% badge. For them, achievements are a part of the game experience.

 

2) Achievements are supposed to be awarded for in-game accomplishments. These players are arguing against something that should never have been an achievement in the first place, not whining to get something they "did nothing to earn". In addition to being wholly inappropriate in that regard, the backer achievemet also prevents non-backers from getting 100% achievement completion and thus damages their experience. It's not difficult to understand why they complain about it.

 

3) I'm a gamer, and I don't want to see this s*** become common in an industry that I care about. Also: Empathy for fellow gamers. I might not enjoy achievements like they do, but I don't see any good reason to screw up part of their experience. There are better ways to reward backers or make them feel special.

 

 

1. It is not challenge achievement, it is mark that person has kickstarted the game. It really don't block people getting all the achievements it only cause that number representing all the achievements collected is not 100%. If your game enjoyment is tied to fact that you can get it say 100% there is several ways to do it, and it should not matter as it isn't gameplay achievement. (People for example can get it by using steam achievement hacking program or by buying kickstarter copy of the game from me [limited supply]  ). 

 

2. Achievements are arbitrary things that developers have decided that they could be fun to mark that player has done them, things that developers want to see how many players have done them (like for example finished the game), sometimes they even are mark that player has done something in the game that developers feel to be worth to mention. But they really aren't any kind of awards, because developers rarely use them as such, at least when we speak all achievements that game offers. 

 

3. I am gamer and I feel that if this is **** that cause people problems it is better to remove achievement system as whole, because it really only works to distract people from games they play. For example developers have for years already added new achievements in the their games that can be only achieved by buying their newest DLC and such achievement add-ons destroy players 100% marking, even if they don't buy the new DLC. Meaning that if it really matter that one has 100% achievements they are forced to buy DLCs so that they can keep that number up. So I say that it is just better for gaming at general that people start to learn that getting 100% of achievements is meaningless especially when it is used to force people buy bad DLCs just to keep up that record.

 

But anyway this is thing that people already complained during KS, addition with backer only ingame things. And I am quite sure that Obsidian probably will not offer those things in any of their future KSs if they decide to do more of them. 

[Althernai]

There is no significant difference between backer and preorder exclusives: You buy at a certain place at a certain time and you are rewarded for your support with a certain bonus.

This is a dangerous misconception. The people who pre-order are making a legal purchase: if for some reason the game never comes out (which is very unlikely since games don't become available for pre-order until they are nearly finished), they are entitled to get their money back. The backers are taking all of the risks of an investor without the possibility of larger rewards that investors get when a venture does better than expected. If the developer spends all of the money and realizes that the product still cannot be finished, the backers have no recourse. In cases like PoE, where the project is successfully delivered (albeit later than initially advertised), Kickstarter backing is indeed equivalent to a very long term pre-order, but you cannot know this when you back a project and in fact Kickstarter goes to considerable lengths to inform would-be backers that it is not a store and that projects can and do fail.

[Miquel93]

Wait, there's people butthurt about what is basically a badge that identifies you as a backer among steam users? I mean, you get the achievment just by starting a new game, you don't have to do anything. Obsidian haven't blocked anything, even something as supperfluos and useless as an achievment, as it works -as I said- like an "honor" badge.

 

Also, and here I might be wrong, but to get access to the achievment don't you have to download it as a DLC, with the backer in game rewards? If this is the case, it shouldn't even be necessary to get the 100%

 

I'm sorry to say it, but people complaining about it are complete and absolute morons, there's no other way to look at this.