2 Major Cities? Obsidian.... I think you know you stretched the 'truth'

[AncientToaster]

Even if they promised "two major cities" I still don't find it that upsetting.

 

Defiance Bay is big enough and has some interesting quests, it reminds me of Baldur's Gate.

 

Actually this whole game really reminds me of Baldurs Gate 1 with the country side areas and the big main city.

 

Defiance Bay isn't nearly as large as Baldurs Gate or Amn but it's still good enough. Those two cities had way too much going on sometimes for me to keep track of. 

[AncientToaster]

I think the level cap is too low for the amount of content in the game. 15 would have been a better place to cap IMO.

 

And Twin Elms seemed smaller than I expected. Guess Eora just isn't very populated.

 

You do realize that we're only in the Dyrwood, which is essentially a country of a Eora?

[Bryy]

they know in their hearts they didn't make good on their promise. 

I love hyperbolic, subjective posts like these.

 

Better to demonize the developer rather than own your personal opinion.

[Atheosis]

People will complain about anything...

[Luckmann]

 

 

Baldur's Gate and Athkatla are big cities. Spanning multiple large maps with a ton of interiors, characters and quests, big cities are a lot of fun. Like strongholds, they also take a lot of work to do well. We're going to have one big city in Project Eternity. Would you like two? If you take us on an exciting adventure to $3.5 Million, we will take you on an exciting adventure to another big city

They name dropped Baldur's Gate and Athkatla. If you're going to use those cities as the benchmark as big cities then I expect something similar in size.

 

Indeed. But despite this, I'm still going to be lenient in my criticism of that particular aspect of the game. Mainly because despite how small and un-city-like Defiance Bay and Twin Elms feel, I would have to say that they're the two parts of the game that I actually enjoyed the most.

 

I rank them higher than the mega dungeon experience, higher than the wilderness exploration, and about a bajillion times higher than the stronghold.

 

 

If we want to discuss underwhelming experiences based on expectations, the Stronghold is probably the biggest let-down in the game. The game has bigger issues, I think, but purely from expectations vs. reality, Stronghold was just.. such a disappointment.

 

If there are other parts of the game that are good and just doesn't fit together, the Stronghold feels like something really good that wasn't assembled at all.

[Awathorn]

When talking 'bout cities, I have one small suggestion. 

 

Instead of making standard issue lets-divide-our-city-in-4/5-districts, how about doing few squares, crossroads and streets?

 

Like important hubs, with inns, temples, markets etc. while leaving the rest of the city to players imagination.

 

For examle:

- City gate with guardhouse, tavern, stables, refugees, people selling stuff.

- XY street with taverns, whorehouses, thief guild or whatever, shady small alleys, beggars.

- XY street with wealthy people houses and better merchants

-  XY square with public bath, temples, town crier,  HQ of some organizations and guilds, 

- market, with some temples, inns, merchants both outside and inside buildings

- docks 

- obligatory zombie infested cemetery

- castle 

 

Also, cities need more life and less space. It is too empty, dead and silent. Feels like traveling through perfectly built empty squares all the time. And inns/taverns should have more stuff happening. Why bother making inn with 10 people you can't talk with and  only one small quest?   

[Szegedin]

the only problem with Twin Elms i had was from RP perspective. I know where the big bad has gone, and whats he trying to do, i know how to get to him and stop him, but instead i go around solving (rp wise) minor quests (and i even went and did endless paths at that point)

 

In character, as soon as you ar able to get to the twin elms , you should rush after the bad guy ignoring the rest

 

Can't be as bad as BG2 where you start with an urgent quest to save Imoen, and have the means to do so after 2 or 3 quests, then after saving her there's an even MORE urgent situation whose resolution leads directly to the finale....this in a game with dozens upon dozens of quests...

 

I think I'm totally immune to RP urgency after the amount of 'senseless' lollygagging one must do to see all the quests in that game...

[Ink Blot]

When talking 'bout cities, I have one small suggestion. 

 

Instead of making standard issue lets-divide-our-city-in-4/5-districts, how about doing few squares, crossroads and streets?

 

Like important hubs, with inns, temples, markets etc. while leaving the rest of the city to players imagination.

 

For examle:

- City gate with guardhouse, tavern, stables, refugees, people selling stuff.

- XY street with taverns, whorehouses, thief guild or whatever, shady small alleys, beggars.

- XY street with wealthy people houses and better merchants

-  XY square with public bath, temples, town crier,  HQ of some organizations and guilds, 

- market, with some temples, inns, merchants both outside and inside buildings

- docks 

- obligatory zombie infested cemetery

- castle 

You mean like... Athkatla?

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Indeed. But despite this, I'm still going to be lenient in my criticism of that particular aspect of the game. Mainly because despite how small and un-city-like Defiance Bay and Twin Elms feel, I would have to say that they're the two parts of the game that I actually enjoyed the most.

 

I rank them higher than the mega dungeon experience, higher than the wilderness exploration, and about a bajillion times higher than the stronghold.

 

I definitely enjoy Defiance Bay more than other aspects of the game. The stronghold is just abysmal. What I found puzzling is there are workers in the Lighthouse fixing it up and I thought wow, why didn't they use the same animations to work on your stronghold with the upgrades? As it stands, you have to pay people to walk around your stronghold otherwise it's a ghost town outside. There are training grounds but no one is using them. They could have used the same animations from The Dozens and the Knights with their guys training. There's an outside forum but no one in sight. There's a garden but no one attending to it. And all the shop keepers seem to turn up from nowhere, no kids outside playing, no real backstory to the shop keepers at all (do they have families?), no animals (eg. small pets) running around. Little things like that would've been a nice touch and it's stuff we saw in the IE games, even IWD1.

 

While I don't mind Defiance Bay, I haven't arrived at Twin Elms yet to comment. I haven't really criticised Obsidian with the big cities, but I do hold Obsidian to a high standard especially when they name drop the IE games and aspects of those games with PoE. There are just so many things that the IE games do better. So much so that even the mages in the IE games chant their spells according to their school. eg. Invokers will chant the same chant but a Necromancer will have a different chant. And you can hear Irenicus chanting according to his school.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Hiro Protagonist II

[mrmonocle]

TWIN ELMS MUST BURN!!!!!!!

[Tuckey]

I'm hopeful that with patches and a move to unity 5 more npcs and bustle will be added to the 'cities'. Maybe even minor tasks from npc's.

 

Standout shortcomings for me

- lack of people wandering around

- lack of animations for these people, i.e no one sitting at the inn, no bards playing music

- where were the refugees? They should be sleeping on the streets, sheltering in the catacombs, wherever they could be.

- old style cities were very organic (twisting and turning layout) and not laid out in a grid like modern cities.

[Luckmann]

TWIN ELMS MUST BURN!!!!!!!

...

 

I never liked Orlans and Elves anyway. And the filthy barbarian humans might as well die along with them.

 

Now the question is what we do to turn the Aumauan islands into Godhammer Testing Grounds.

[Sedrefilos]

Defiance Bay was a big let down to me

I believe it needed at least +50% more content. It looks emprty. You're supposed to see the capital full of people and refugees crowding its streets etc. Also you don't get to get involved into the major factions enough. Just one quest and you're ok. Same with the animancers and the detective house. Also, one district is only 3 buildings, one which is the Vailian embassy with almost nothing to do there. Another district (Heritage hill) is just an open dungeon. You go there once, you finish it and that's it.

 

I loved Twin elms on the other hand. It is much more densely populated. People everywere, with their beasts, talking, training each other, walking. The factions are more worked and the quests are more interesting. It's smaller (is it?) but more focused. Yes it's a madhouse, but a well worked one

Edited April 14, 2015 by Sedrefilos

[Hassat Hunter]

I think the level cap is too low for the amount of content in the game. 15 would have been a better place to cap IMO.

 

And Twin Elms seemed smaller than I expected. Guess Eora just isn't very populated.

 

Why 15? Modern games have 100 or 150... so a large RPG should have... 300!

And we can add NG+ where you PC can comment everything is familiar like you've done it before in certain convo's.

Then we got NG++ which turns Xaurip's into Adra Dragons and ofcourse NG+++ where the game just plays itself. You know, for those people who don't really want to experience the gameplay of the game but just the plot. Since we're thoughful that way...

...

I really liked Defiance Bay, and it's definitely the area I spend most time in gaming, I've been in that city for what feels like ages. My major problem with Twin Elms was me going to finish of the bounties (which are extremely utterly boring), and some time spend trying to find NPC's which were spoken they were somewhere but not actually spawned till another event. It really wasn't lacking in itself, but as mentioned only having 3 exterior maps at that point of the game was just too little.

[Matt516]

I dislike major cities in these games, personally... so I'm not bothered. I always quit BG when I actually got to BG.

 

But I may be in the minority...

Edited April 14, 2015 by Matt516

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

I think the level cap is too low for the amount of content in the game. 15 would have been a better place to cap IMO.

And Twin Elms seemed smaller than I expected. Guess Eora just isn't very populated.

 

 

Why 15?

Because the current level cap can be reached too easily.

 

 

Modern games have 100 or 150... so a large RPG should have... 300!

And we can add NG+ where you PC can comment everything is familiar like you've done it before in certain convo's.

Then we got NG++ which turns Xaurip's into Adra Dragons and ofcourse NG+++ where the game just plays itself. You know, for those people who don't really want to experience the gameplay of the game but just the plot. Since we're thoughful that way...

That's a bit over the top.

[Srex]

I thought both the big cities were pretty well designed, and nicely distinct from each other in feel/culture/appearance.  They weren't perfect, but my preference for more content would be to add more village hubs (Dyrford, Friendly Arms Inn, Beregost), smallish areas with their own plotlines (Gilded Vale, Umar Hills, Windspear HIlls, Trademeet), or expanded faction and/or stronghold quests.

[anameforobsidian]

I personally thought all the zones in Defiance Bay needed more content except Ondra's Gift.  Twin Elms was smaller, but it was significantly content denser, and I generally thought it was the better city (beside's Ondra's gift).  I would like to see more small towns and outlying areas in the game.  BG1 had Beregost, Friendly Arm, Nashkel, Gullykin, Baldur's Gate, and Candlekeep (Ulgoth's Beard in TotSC).  PE had Gilded Vale, Defiance Bay, Dyrford, and Twin Elms.  Many of those cities had significantly more minor quests and weird encounters in them than PE did.

 

But I think a game is usually in a good place when my main complaint is that I want twice as much of it.

[zombo]

Sigh.....the things people complain about.

[yaggaz]

 

Selective quoting there. The entire quote is:

 

 

 

Baldur's Gate and Athkatla are big cities. Spanning multiple large maps with a ton of interiors, characters and quests, big cities are a lot of fun. Like strongholds, they also take a lot of work to do well. We're going to have one big city in Project Eternity. Would you like two? If you take us on an exciting adventure to $3.5 Million, we will take you on an exciting adventure to another big city

They name dropped Baldur's Gate and Athkatla. If you're going to use those cities as the benchmark as big cities then I expect something similar in size.

 

 

This post wins the thread!

[yaggaz]

Sigh.....the things people complain about.

 

Yeah complaining about a stretch goal that encouraged us all to PAY EXTRA MONEY FOR, that was half bake delivered is sooo shallow a thing to complain about... ~sarcasm~

Edited April 14, 2015 by yaggaz

[STiAT]

DA: O had more than two major cities. Still worked. And it worked great. It's about diversity. Because they did Twin Elms too short does not mean it's a bad idea.

[AncientToaster]

 

Sigh.....the things people complain about.

 

Yeah complaining about a stretch goal that encouraged us all to PAY EXTRA MONEY FOR, that was half bake delivered is sooo shallow a thing to complain about... ~sarcasm~

 

 

You got two major cities. Stretch goal achieved.

[Tuckey]

@AncientToaster

 

People are offering positive suggestions for improvement going forward. Some expectations were not met but thats okay because there is always tomorrow in terms of patches and content.

 

If you mention Athkatla then you expect something similar no?

[Arsene Lupin]

I dunno... Defiance Bay felt pretty empty and lifeless to me. Hardly any background "city" noises like Amn, and very, very, very few NPCs littered about (most of whom weren't actual NPCs)... and I don't think any of them would move around at all. I wonder if it's due to limitations of unity? Being unable to display more than X number of characters at a time?