Keep needs a serious overhaul

[Katarack21]

You can raise taxes?! What?

How?!

[rf5111918]

 

Semi on-topic: I've just recently starting upgrading the keep, and all my hirelings have notes saying they are "currently unpaid"

 

What does this mean? Do I have to pay them out of taxes rather than my normal money? And what happens if I never get enough taxes to pay them, will they get pissed and leave?

 

A bug from what I can tell. They are getting paid, but the UI isn't being updated to show that. 

 

Aye, so far the stronghold hasn't impressed me. As examples: I haven't had any interesting visitors as of yet and the dungeon seems rather pointless, mainly because of the former and their ability to escape. 

 

 

And you can't really prevent them from escaping either and you don't really know when they are going to jailbreak. That's also a problem. 

[rf5111918]

I was over all fairly pleased with the keep - it's not like money *really* matters - unless you're going for the ultra-passive achievement.   The only thing that bothers me at all is I'd like to be able to transfer stuff out of my stash and into containers in the keep, because I dream of loading my keep up with crap I'll probably forget about - like I used to do with the dresser drawers in an inn in Beregost . 

 

Once you really start hammering out side quests the keep becomes a lot more profitable because you'll be swimming in adventures of various sorts.  It's just that when you first get it, if you play the "intended" route, you don't have a great lot of side-quests left to do for a little bit.  I actually got some fairly decent items out of it too lol. 

 

But it's not just about the revenue generation. It's about whether or not the keep is fun to play.

And right now, it's not really fun to play. It feels more like a chore, like Farmville or something, where you have to pay off bad visitors and fend off armies. 

It's micromanagement, but it's not necessarily fun micromanagement.

[RedSocialKnight]

Yeah, that guy is a net zero prestige/defence and costs more money than the hirelings who are a net positive. Unless you're desperate for defense for some reason (I haven't yet encountered persistent damaging bandit attacks, so I don't know if this'll ever come up) I can't see why anyone would use him.

[Atheosis]

The rest bonuses being only +1 and not stacking is the only thing that really bugs me about the stronghold (staying at inns should not give better bonuses than a maxed out stronghold).  Otherwise, while it could be done better, I find it to be okay as it is mostly.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Atheosis

[RedSocialKnight]

Yeah, I was totally expecting to get the bonuses from all my buildings at Brighthollow rather than having to pick one.

[Pighardia]

The keep featured some of my favourite quests in the game...Who could forget the epiceness that is 'minor adventure'(seriously, couldn't we have just a tiny bit of text to tell us something about it?!).

[takamorisan]

My thoughts regarding the keep is:

 

-Could really use more invasions

-Seriously more invasions, I just got attacked 3 times in my entire playthrough

-Could be more populated, traveling commoners walking around,  using tavern services, buying in your shops...

-More interactive events where I actually need to go back to the keep to solve it besides invasions

[sparklecat]

Yeah, I was totally expecting to get the bonuses from all my buildings at Brighthollow rather than having to pick one.

...what?

 

 

Well, that was a lot of utterly pointless upgrading I just did.

[Isi1dur]

I agree 100%.

 

Stronghold is a feature with immense potential IMO, and said potential is nowhere near achieved just yet, it needs to be worked on and expanded upon since it would be a real sjame to leave it as is.

 

NWN2 stronghold was really cool for example and it came from the same developers so it would be nice if we had a patch somewhere down the line which focuses solely on improving this.

[theforcewithin]

My thoughts regarding the keep is:

 

-Could really use more invasions

-Seriously more invasions, I just got attacked 3 times in my entire playthrough

-Could be more populated, traveling commoners walking around,  using tavern services, buying in your shops...

-More interactive events where I actually need to go back to the keep to solve it besides invasions

 

Yeah my problem is that if feels very lifeless and detached from the overall game story itself. If it had implications to the story based on how its being run it would be more dynamic and exciting and less like a spreadsheet ticking certain boxes.

[archangel979]

I hope they overhaul the Keep in the expansion and make it awesome. Currently the Keep is not at the level of fun or polish the rest of the game is. 

[Mungri]

The keep would have been better left out of the initial game and added as an expansion with a lot more stuff than it currently has.

[PsychoBlonde]

The bandits don't actually steal MORE money than you collect in taxes.  The amount the bandits take + the second amount is your total taxes collected.  If your defense is low, the proportion the bandits steal is usually higher than the leftover that you get, yes, but they don't magically dip into your treasury.

 

Are you looting everything and using the stash?  Because I bought EVERYTHING and rested constantly in expensive rooms and I still had something like 100k copper left over at the end of the game.  I didn't find the keep upgrades expensive, I found them TRIVIAL.

 

I wasn't really expecting the "stronghold building" to be anything much.  Probably the most interesting bit is getting bounties.

[Mungri]

The most annoying thing about the stronghold to me is having to build everything one thing at a time. Its slow and cumbersome.

[Sabin Stargem]

I hope that a keep-centric expansion is released.  Anyhow, here are some changes that I would like:

 

1)  Allow stables to be built.  They cut down travel time in the game world by half.  Also, add a Survival check to each area that the player travels through:  Passing it halves the time again, since they know good shortcuts and knowledge for making their way.  This is for those quests that are time-based.

 

2)  Instead of keep events being triggered by quest completion, they should be time based.

 

3)  Have each upgrade for the keep to have a quest associated with it.  Completing the quest upgrades the keep in some way, such as extra hireling slots, shop discounts, or "tithes" from a corrupt priest.

 

4)  Add a teleport gem, which moves you to the keep and back - but you have to be at certain spots in the world for it to work.  This is so that the stronghold can be accessed in distant lands, where it would be unrealistic to return by normal means.  Of course, these spots can be blocked or disabled by certain events, so that Obsidian can create dramatic tension.

[eRe4s3r]

I agree that the Keep is a huge downer.. but I had no money problems... I ended* the game with 173k gold if I sold all the nonsense I picked up in the last areas of the game I'd have likely topped that. All expansions to the keep built, all hirelings and all stuff bought from the random events.. which happen way too rarely ;p

This does not change that the keep is a far cry from how it was promoted or at least, how I thought it would be. The idea here was to copy the BG2 player strongholds which were all unique things adapted to certain classes involving major quests, and very tough fights (Firkraag, and the mage sphere isn't a joyful picnic either). When I heard the keep pitched at first I thought it was something we could personalize depending on the player class, so a druid would have a druidic circle kind of deal, a warrior a fortress type, a barbarian a encampment and a trophy room, chanters a stage and chanting stuff. But not so. All keeps are alike.. meh. Here a smaller scope would have been better. I don't want a giant fortress that is basically just a collection of load screens to pretty rooms. I want functionality and living breathing stronghold. I want to see my companions in that stronghold. I want to see them rest in their rooms when I am there.

 

Imo it doesn't even end with the keep being alike either. It does not feel *alive*. Now neither did the ones in BG2, but when you look at when that game was made... I have to compare it newer games, meaning Dragon Age Inquisition. That keep felt alive. And that is what I hoped the player stronghold would be like here.

 

I also absolutely agree with Sabin Stargem, a bit more "functionality" and "ease of use" stuff would have been nice, more player involvement in the upgrades. And a proper smith with proper smithing system behind it. In BG2 you had tons of unique artefacts that you needed a smith to build and all that's left here is 1 such item. And you get it near the end of the game... great.

[Katarack21]

 

Yeah, I was totally expecting to get the bonuses from all my buildings at Brighthollow rather than having to pick one.

...what?

 

 

Well, that was a lot of utterly pointless upgrading I just did.

 

I know, right? I felt exactly the same way. It's basically worthless. I thought the whole point of that was to end up with a really great stat bonus that cost you a lot. Not a whole bunch of pointless low-level crap.

[sparklecat]

Add in that I've taken one prisoner and he escaped by the time I travelled off the map where I fought him, and I'm thinking I'll just pass on upgrading my keep at all for future games.

[Katarack21]

I"ll get the curio shop and the botanical gardens, and the warden. Screw the rest of it.

[Sabin Stargem]

In addition to my previous suggestions, there is something I would like to see:  After the stronghold has been acquired, the player cannot have companions in their party when at the stronghold.  This is so that as the player wanders about the stronghold, they can see their companions doing various things:  Durance "debating" with another priest, target practice between the ranged companions, Aloth being had by a pretty lady until his "friend" steps in, ect.

 

However, if that is to be added, two considerations must be added:  The ability to equip companions and their spells without them being in the party, and a method to find these wandering companions.  We do not want people to be inconvenienced by the roleplaying aspects, so ease of use is a crucial counterbalance.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Sabin Stargem

[wotdlois]

You constantly hear people talking about immersion breakers and for me, who just got to the point where I inherited the stronghold, seems to be just that.  It completely breaks up the adventure when you have to manage a castle, upgrading and hiring people like you are playing an RTS.  Its something that needlessly distracts you from the main storytelling aspect of the game.  Worrying about, if i am making or loosing money, getting robbed etc.  

 

As others have suggested, i am going to only upgrade the main keep, botanicals and curio and forget everything else, unless there is a critcal need to, that affects the overall flow of the story.

[Baladas]

Bump

[Nakia]

I have no idea where to post this so this will do.

There is a certain quest reward(?) mercenary in the keep that gives -6 prestige and +6 defence for 50copper per day. Completely pointless?

I love having him.  His comments about things in the Keep are fun too.      He is a bit expensive but well worth it.

[roller12]

So is the keep currently worth investing in?, im kinda low on funds there.