Kind of disappointed how mechanics dominates the skills

[kat7ra]

 

And yes, mechanics for detecting stuff is stupid. Perception should have been enough. Now you're forced to make your ranger/whatever an expert machinist.

Or you could just use one of your companions for that....

 

Also - you know that the game won't collapse if you will not discover every single hidden item that exists in there, do you? Cause I have a very strong impression that you don't.

 

What are you talking about? Of course the game will collapse!

 

Tbh though, opening locks, finding secrets and removing traps is A LOT MORE than you get from ANY other skill.

[Fearabbit]

Fully agree, after playing for a bit it's quite obvious that Mechanics is the best skill and you need at least two companions who have it as high as possible.

I don't even know why my companions should bother with Athletics or Lore. Especially Kana has better things to do than to use scrolls in combat - his Lore points are completely wasted. And Edér's high Athletics only mean that everyone else will want to rest while he is still up and running - guess what, that means that I'll set up camp anyway! (Especially if by that time the spells are used up and the people are wounded. Athletics doesn't help in this regard at all.)

[Answermancer]

Fully agree, after playing for a bit it's quite obvious that Mechanics is the best skill and you need at least two companions who have it as high as possible.

 

Why would you need it on two companions? One is plenty. Durance starts with some points so I made him my go-to mechanics guy.

 

That said, I do think that Mechanics is probably a bit overloaded, and I don't like that I'm basically forced to move slowly all the time (negating some of the awesomeness of double speed mode) if I want to find everything (and I must find everything  ).

 

They should just make it so that you're always detecting hidden stuff, it makes very little sense to tie it to stealth.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Answermancer

[archangel979]

 

Fully agree, after playing for a bit it's quite obvious that Mechanics is the best skill and you need at least two companions who have it as high as possible.

 

Why would you need it on two companions? One is plenty. Durance starts with some points so I made him my go-to mechanics guy.

 

That said, I do think that Mechanics is probably a bit overloaded, and I don't like that I'm basically forced to move slowly all the time (negating some of the awesomeness of double speed mode) if I want to find everything (and I must find everything  ).

 

They should just make it so that you're always detecting hidden stuff, it makes very little sense to tie it to stealth.

 

They tied it to stealth to make it more accessible than before. In IE games you could not stealth and detect traps/hidden at same time. In NWN2 you could but it would slow down your character 2 times and you needed to turn both on.

So they decided to put it all into one mode called Scouting that only slows you down a bit to make it faster to use.

 

Being able to detect hidden stuff automatically is not a good idea. The idea around old school design is cost for benefit. Benefit is finding hidden items, cost is going more slowly and needing to remember to use scouting.

 

What we are talking here is if one skill should be used for all and that others skills are less interesting for leveling up because of this.

[Sky_walker]

Fully agree, after playing for a bit it's quite obvious that Mechanics is the best skill and you need at least two companions who have it as high as possible.

Two? What for?

 

 

 

Being able to detect hidden stuff automatically is not a good idea. The idea around old school design is cost for benefit. Benefit is finding hidden items, cost is going more slowly and needing to remember to use scouting.

 

It's not automatic. It's stat-based. You won't see everything as soon as you enter scout mode. It works identically to opening locks and everything else. And somehow I haven't seen a threads with people complaining how bad it is that they get locks opened automatically.

 

 

What we are talking here is if one skill should be used for all and that others skills are less interesting for leveling up because of this.

 

Stop these hyperbolic statements. No one skill is "used for all".

Edited March 31, 2015 by Sky_walker

[Fearabbit]

Because you might want to switch companions around at some point. That's my only reasoning behind it. I just experienced this when I had to let my custom rogue character go in favor of Sagani. Now I wish I'd put more points into Mechanics on someone else.

[Osvir]

Some thoughts on "Which Skill is the best one?". Had an epiphany mid-play, because some of my characters got fatigued all the time whenever I traveled from point A to point B, or in-between every fight so I had to rest often. I put in some points in Athletics and didn't have to worry too much about it afterwards.

Priorities, in my opinion:
1) Athletics, otherwise all your dudes and dudettes will be wanting to rest after every "long" or tough encounter they're in.
2) Mechanics, only 1 dedicated character needs this.
3) Stealth if you want to be sneaky and not be spotted instantly, put about 4-5 points into it. Only those in your front (of your formation) is going to need it. But it's fun to have a dedicated Scout too

Utilitarian/Gimmick/Dialogue---If you want to spice up your build on your MC or try something new:
- Lore is probably more important on non-Caster classes, because Caster classes will be so busy casting spells that they're never going to have time to use any scrolls anyways. Really helpful actually to have some Lore on a Melee class to be able to cast some Endurance healing or buff spells before heading into the fray. Buuuut... you won't be needing to use any scrolls anyways *shrugs* Lots of options in Dialogue though, so it is a Main Character Skill more or less. Or on a Ranger.

- Survival, goes in the same bin as Lore. You're hardly going to use Potions anyways, and you'll be "overburdened" with so many potions (just like in Baldur's Gate and the rest of the Infinity Engine games) that the potions will end up staying in the stash, or getting sold to a vendor anyways. Or, well, maybe not you, but I have a stash full of potions that I'm never using because I don't need to.

You could, essentially, make a Fighter/Wizard with Potions+Scrolls. Buff yourself up at the beginning of combat by drinking 10 potions (slightly exaggerated ) and then buff yourself with 10 scrolls (yeah I'm pushing it) and then wreak havoc (probably)

Edited March 31, 2015 by Osvir

[Luckmann]

Not having Athletics is *annoying*, and that's it. I'd absolutely rank Mechanics the highest, because it results in so many different little things; you detect traps, you open doors and you get loads of loot. Athletics gives you.. less annoyance. I would always take some, but so, I would take Stealth, because not having Stealth (on your tank, no less!) is just means you're a glutton for punishment.

[Nokturnal Lex]

Not having Athletics is *annoying*, and that's it. I'd absolutely rank Mechanics the highest, because it results in so many different little things; you detect traps, you open doors and you get loads of loot. Athletics gives you.. less annoyance. I would always take some, but so, I would take Stealth, because not having Stealth (on your tank, no less!) is just means you're a glutton for punishment.

 

Well you only need like 2 Athletics on each Character to reap a pretty sizable reward of not being fatigued nearly as much. I personally suggest keeping your entire parties athletics skill the same value, because just about everything that fatigues you will fatigue your entire party.

 

1 character with maxed Stealth will allow you to loot villages and towns like crazy.

 

Almost every single traps does so little damage the best use of them is vendor trash. 

 

Though the mechanics skill is pretty OP though you don't need it on your main character. I think the main problem everyone might be having with the Mechanics skill is that none of the premade characters specialize in it.

 

If you make a rogue with maxed out mechanics as soon as you get to Gilded Vale your main character can have whatever else you want.

[archangel979]

 

Being able to detect hidden stuff automatically is not a good idea. The idea around old school design is cost for benefit. Benefit is finding hidden items, cost is going more slowly and needing to remember to use scouting.

It's not automatic. It's stat-based. You won't see everything as soon as you enter scout mode. It works identically to opening locks and everything else. And somehow I haven't seen a threads with people complaining how bad it is that they get locks opened automatically.

 

I meant automatic as player needs to do anything but run near it. That makes it not a player choice but only a matter of having the skill maxed which everyone will and hidden items are pointless. I been watching streams and people due to needing to turn on scout missed stuff all the time, which means they will have more cool stuff to find on their second play.

 

What we are talking here is if one skill should be used for all and that others skills are less interesting for leveling up because of this.

Stop these hyperbolic statements. No one skill is "used for all".

 

For all really important things like finding traps, opening goody chests and finding hidden stuff that lets you progress or get more goodies (including some cool magical items).

[Sky_walker]

 

What we are talking here is if one skill should be used for all and that others skills are less interesting for leveling up because of this.

Stop these hyperbolic statements. No one skill is "used for all".

 

For all really important things like finding traps, opening goody chests and finding hidden stuff that lets you progress or get more goodies (including some cool magical items).

 

Opening chests is decided by mechanics, finding traps and hidden stuff is decided by perception. These are two different skills.

[Luckmann]

 

 

 

What we are talking here is if one skill should be used for all and that others skills are less interesting for leveling up because of this.

Stop these hyperbolic statements. No one skill is "used for all".

 

For all really important things like finding traps, opening goody chests and finding hidden stuff that lets you progress or get more goodies (including some cool magical items).

 

Opening chests is decided by mechanics, finding traps and hidden stuff is decided by perception. These are two different skills.

 

No. As has been repeatedly mentioned in the thread, nothing is decided by the Perception Attribute. It's all the Mechanics Skill.

 

Mechanics is used to find secrets, find traps, open doors and containers, and disarm traps.

 

Perception isn't even a Skill, it's an Attribute, and it has no bearing on anything.

[Horrorscope]

What annoys the hell out of me is that you have to Scout to look for hidden objects, and effectiveness is determined by Mechanics.

 

I would have preferred it if you could detect at any time, and if it was determined by Stealth. At least Hidden Objects, if not traps.

 

Agree. Anyone correct me if I'm wrong assuming the following:

 

1. Mechanics. Only one person needs them high, for spotting secrets, traps, disarming traps and pick locking. Correct?

2. Stealth. Does everyone need it if you want to get them all as close as possible before attacking? (I haven't put a point extra in here, I sneak to find secrets that's all.

3. Lore. Seems like you want to put points into that so each character can use scrolls.

4. Athletics seems good to not fatigued as fast, get more value in your rests.

5. Survival. To get duration boosts to items you consume. Well I haven't had a need to consume on hard.

 

So in review, there is very little choice to skills, aka shallow.

1. One person hammers Mechanics.

2. The rest go strong in Lore and Athletics (Stealth if you play that way)

 

Not much to think about on this end.

 

Spotting traps and/or secrets should have been something else, perhaps based on your perception score. The definitions are weak here. Mechanics say nothing about spotting but that is the # that matters. Perception states something like "represents a character's senses as well as their instinctive ability to pick up on details", makes sense for spotting.

[Horrorscope]

"Opening chests is decided by mechanics, finding traps and hidden stuff is decided by perception. These are two different skills."

 

I've tested this and I'm about as certain as can be that finding/spotting it is governed by Mechanics. I have a person with high Mechanics and low Perception and I have a person with No Mechanics and High Perception. By saving the game near a known trap, yes I tested it because it was confusing due to definitions given and what I was seeing just playing... That the high perception, no mechanics person was useless in spotting. The high mechanic, low perception character spotted the trap from a good 15-20 feet out.

 

You need on person with high mechanics to do it all and preferably near the front of your party at least while venturing.

[Alsark]

Hm. I already sneak around a lot as is, but it sounds like I should just be sneaking everywhere so I don't miss anything.

 

I do think finding hidden things should probably be perception-based (or stealth-based) rather than mechanic-based... but eh. That's a really minor nitpick.

[Felius]

My impressions so far:

 

Athletics: Get 3 points in this for all characters. Maybe 2 if you don't mind resting relatively frequently or is getting enough damage and spending enough "per rest" resources that you need to rest more frequently anyway. No real point in putting more than 3 though, except possibly for scripted events and conversations, but those tend to marginal at best.

Stealth: If you don't plan on fighting absolutely everything you meet and like to at least get a bit closer before starting combat, put maybe 1-3 points in this for every character, plus 1-2 extra for your tanks that need to get even closer. You might also want a single character with a lot of it if you enjoy just scouting around or stealing things right in front of its owner's nose, but it's hardly necessary to go that high, even for most stealing.

Lore: Do you want to use Scrolls with that character? If not, don't bother with it unless it's your MC and you really want the conversation options it might occasionally unlock.

Survival: Ehh, if you have a bunch of spare points and like using consumables, it might not be too bad, specially for the first few (cheap) points. Otherwise, not much point outside conversations and scripted events, again.

Mechanics: You really want a character with this as high as you can possibly get, maybe up to a certain point, but I don't know what would be the "sweet spot" that gets you (nearly) everything from it. Only need one in the party at any given moment though, so after the first (and maybe a second one if you want to swap the character around at times), you don't need it in any other character.

 

In all, I really have to say that the whole skill mechanics in Pillars of Eternity feels very badly implemented and probably quite underused outside conversations (in which the skills of companions really should be allowed to make a difference too).

[Nukenin]

 

 

[…] I wish I had known about The Disappointer. D:

 

 

Are you… disappointed?

 

If so…

 

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!    

[Dongom]

Yup, you only need 2 points in the other skills, then max out mechanics.

[bobthe]

I'm confused now...do you need Perception, Mechanics, or both to detect secrets? Is it different for traps vs non-traps? If you need both do they have to be on the same character? I was under the impresion that Perception was the only thing that mattered for finding secrets. I even made a rogue at the first inn with max Perception just for that, but I was not maxing mechanics (I was putting points in, just not maxing it). I noticed that even with a 22 Perception I missed seeing a couple traps, but my mechanics is low enough that I would think I would have missed more traps than just those two if it's based purely on mechanics.

 

Anyway, now I'm totally confused.

[aenemic]

I don't see how Mechanics "dominates". Yes, it's important and probably the most vital of them. But you only need one party member with high Mechanics, and thus leaves a lot of room for the other skills. I think they balanced it pretty well. I have a hard time specializing my characters since I feel I could use a little bit of every skill on each of them.

[Bazy]

I'm confused now...do you need Perception, Mechanics, or both to detect secrets? Is it different for traps vs non-traps? If you need both do they have to be on the same character? I was under the impresion that Perception was the only thing that mattered for finding secrets. I even made a rogue at the first inn with max Perception just for that, but I was not maxing mechanics (I was putting points in, just not maxing it). I noticed that even with a 22 Perception I missed seeing a couple traps, but my mechanics is low enough that I would think I would have missed more traps than just those two if it's based purely on mechanics.

 

Anyway, now I'm totally confused.

This was answered like 6 times in this thread. It's only mechanics

 

 

And mechanics dominates because it has, by far, the best combat and non-combat benefits of the all the skills. 

[Daemonjax]

Regarding mechanics and searching to find hidden objects: I believe mechanics only determines how close you need to be while stealthed to find it.  I don't know how that applies to finding traps, though.

[jackyjackyjackychan]

what is the highest mechanics you need to open every lock in the game? 10 is the highest i have seen

[rf5111918]

Anybody else feel like this? To me it seems it far surpasses the benefits of the other skills.

Also, I've had Aloth join in on a conversation (8 lore at that time), yet the dialogue options were restricted by my lore level... kind of underwhelming... so party member skills are solely for the passive benefits like using scrolls? kind of disappointing as well...

Still it is an awesome game!

I completely agree. 

Lore does seem to help a bit with dialogue choices but Stealth, Athletics, and Survival don't seem to benefit me as much. 

I don't really use potions that much so Survival doesn't really have an effect on me. 

Athletics is really to prevent fatigue and after a certain amount of points put into it, it doesn't really seem to impact gameplay much.

I haven't found Stealth to be really useful.  

Edited April 1, 2015 by rf5111918

[Azureblaze]

 

oh, I have never found a hidden item before...makes me want to go back and check~

 

Is there a full list of hidden items by area?

 

All hidden item locations are listed in the game official strategy guide

 

Have actually found a few hidden items not in the strategy guide, there are quite a few inconsistent things(bow stats another example) in the strategy guide unfortunately (at least the printed version, have not checked digital one), but it still can be useful.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Azureblaze