480 Discussion

[Osvir]

Ouch. Traps

And "You have been caught stealing" (No reaction though?)

Edited March 13, 2015 by Osvir

[Falkon Swiftblade]

Somebody make a monk and let us know if they are still awesome. Also how did they address the interrupts from 435? Also do rangers feel any better?

 

 

Dod I understand some say that they did include sound sliders now too? How's combat music?

[Sensuki]

There's a VO slider but the VO volume is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too loud. I have VO set to like 13% on the slider and they're already louder than other sounds at 50% - not much dynamic range to play with.

[Luckmann]

 

 

 

I think so, but it's really annoying. I know if my character is being flanked if they are engaged by more than one enemy and I can see it on the tooltip. I don't need some green spew under my character's feet saying HOLY FK DUDE YOU ARE FLANKED - you can't really do anything about it anyway due to the engagement system.

Expert mode = removes helpers

 

 

But odds are that you don't actually want to remove all helpers. Until the current Engagement system has been fixed or removed, you really need those helpers to make any sense of combat. :| I'm with Sensuki, I don't even see why it's relevant to inform someone of something they cannot really do anything about, or why it needs to be so.. glaring.

 

 

There are multiple ways to do something about it when one's flanked, and I find that kind of visual feature actually useful, since that ui space is not used in any other way otherwise.

 

 

It's that line of thinking that has lead us to the World of Warcraft School of User Interfaces.

 

 

 

 

"Hang on, there's some UI space that isn't used over here yet, let me see if I can fill it with something so it's not unused."

[Uomoz]

That's not what I meant. A bit extreme ahahahah.

[Diogenes]

Does anyone know if visual effects on weapons (Burning Lash etc) not showing up on the inventory screen is by design or not?

[Osvir]

@Luckmann: I don't know about you or Sensuki or anyone else but I can play and follow combat and the game in Expert Mode without having any trouble.

Practice makes perfect, right? I've been playing with the helpers so much that I feel comfortable without them. And everything looks better too. Ya just need to learn to let go man, fly with your own wings  

EDIT: Furthermore, I don't know if that green flank thing Sensuki mentioned is removed by Expert Mode (Because the arrows and stuff showing you who is attacking who is still in there), I haven't seen it though. Honestly, I'd want everything gone in Expert Mode, all of those helpers (even the pulsating arrows showing you who is attacking who).

Point being... we won't need any helpers eventually, because we're going to get better and better at understanding everything, and I think all those helpers take up too much screen estate. They feel more or less like they are part of a tutorial, and something you'd be able to turn off in-game.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Osvir

[Sensuki]

I wanted to use Expert Mode, but I don't like it because it contains many things that I don't like. I also don't like that the disabling of some things are exclusive to expert mode.

[Uomoz]

Is it just me or there are a lot of new music tracks and they are very well mixed/done? I F****G love the character creation chill music and the main theme.

[Luckmann]

Since the Attributes have not changed since 435, I'm going to bring this up again:

 

Just for reference, this was the Attribute Bonuses in v392:

 

Attributes in v392:
 
MGT: +3% Damage & Healing, +2 Fortitude.
CON: +2% Endurance & Health, +2 Fortitude.
DEX: +3% Action Spd, +2 Reflex.
PER: +2 Accuracy, +5% Range, +2 Reflex.
INT: +6% AoE, +2 Deflection, +2 Will.
RES: +3% Concentration, +5% Duration, +2 Will.

This had some clear issues, the foremost one being that Perception was incredibly valuable, due to the +2 Accuracy per point. Accuracy was, however, broken, due to the game's damage calculations at the time. This has since been fixed.

 

These are the current v435 Attribute Bonuses:

 

Attributes in v435:
 
MGT: +3% Damage & Healing, +2 Fortitude.
CON: +3% Endurance & Health, +2 Fortitude.
DEX: +3% Action Spd, +2 Reflex.
PER: +6 Interrupt, +1 Deflection, +2 Reflex.
INT: +6% AoE, +5% Duration, +1 Will.
RES: +6% Concentration, +1 Deflection, +2 Will.

Interestingly, one developer (or was it QA?) said that this was the most balanced yet, even though Interrupt calculations are currently broken and Dexterity works in reverse, and it's got some big issues I'd like to raise (that has mostly been raised elsewhere, but I thought I'd make a single post to discuss it, even though I'm somewhat hampered due to the ongoing lack of an edit function, so if I end up double-posting like mad, bear with me).

 

These are obviously arguably quite subjective, at least in part, the subject being me. C'est la vie.

• Resolve is greatly undervalued in comparison to most other attributes, this is particularly grating with the Paladin in mind, who you'd think would do well with Resolve, conceptually and roleplaying-wise. It is a clear "pump or dump"-stat, where the only ones that will have reason to pump it are those that are going for a tanking role and nothing else.
• Intellect is overvalued for casters. It has consolidated two primary modifiers for most caster builds, whether Wizard or Priest, which is AoE and Duration. Hilariously enough, Intellect is now also a prime attribute for the Barbarian, which is as conceptually unsound and roleplayingly odd as Paladins doing bad with Resolve.
• Accuracy was completely removed, even though the cause for doing so may not be relevant any longer.
• Likewise, the +Range modifier was removed; whilst only applicable to ranged combatants and therefore arguably presenting a overvaluing/undervaluing issue depending on build and class, isn't that an issue inherent to the attribute system, and indeed, largely the point of it?
• Intellect now only gives +1 Will, instead of 2; this was likely to prevent the overvaluing of Intellect after endowing it with the consolidation of caster modifiers, but honestly it does nothing to curtail it. This is likely the reason Fortitude, Reflex and Will modifiers are now also listed, as previously they were not, when they did not differ from eachother, it was +2 across the board (afaik).

I'd like to suggest the following:

 

Suggested Modifiers:

MGT: +3% Damage & Healing, +3 Interrupt +2 Fortitude.
CON: +3% Endurance & Health, +3% Concentration, +2 Fortitude.
DEX: +3% Action Speed, +2 Deflection +2 Reflex.
PER: +1 Accuracy, +3 Interrupt, +3% Range +2 Reflex.
INT: +6% Duration, +2 Deflection, +2 Will.
RES: +6% AoE, +6% Concentration, +2 Will.

• There would be a greater synergy between some of the Attributes, for focused builds, such as a interrupter (Interrupt) that hits hard (MGT) and precise (PER) with every blow, the intelligent (INT) and nimble (DEX) warrior playing on his defensive strengths (Deflection), or a focused (RES) and athletic (CON) man that pushes through no matter how hard he's hit (Concentration).
• Intellect would now be an option for the intelligent, defensive warrior.
• Intellect would no longer be the one-stop-shop for casters.
• Resolve reaffirms it's position as the Attribute that represents a character's power (or wish) to influence the world or not be influenced by it.
• Constitution is no longer largely meaningless, and slightly less of a dump stat. A small but significant boost, but mostly conceptually.
• Perception may appear overvalued again, but do note that the bonus to interrupt has been cut in half. It is slightly more valuable to ranged combatants than to melee combatants, which is entirely intended.
• I had more points, I swear, but I seem to be exhibiting a bit of an aneurysm at the moment, I would edit in more, but I can't, so just live with it.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on how the Attributes should look and what modifiers they should have.

 

One month in, and not much has changed.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Luckmann

[Cluas]

I can't hire adventurers in the inn??

 

Combat music stops abruptly with no fade out??

Edited March 13, 2015 by Cluas

[Starwars]

Some immediate "feels" impressions.

 

-I love you guys for including the voice slider, THANK YOU! Would still be great if you guys could get in more audio options for a patch (turning off combat barks and such) but this will be huge in improving my enjoyment!

 

-The audio mix still feels a bit off in places I think. Footsteps feel pretty loud when compared to the clanging of switching around weapons for example. Everything seems like it gets really loud in combat but might be imagining that. Love the ambient sounds for the Inn though it sounds a bit... rowdy for a small-town inn like that. Not a biggie though, it really enhances the feeling of the place.

 

-More orchestral music. The Dyrford music is now live orchestra as well as (I think) the combat music. Even the exploration music I think? At any rate, they are greatly improved since we heard them the first time. The combat music especially. It's still not a favorite of mine but it's *way* better now. The Dyrford music is really beautiful to my ears.

 

-It was here before but I gotta say that the lighting changes are really nice when going from daytime to evening and such.

[Sensuki]

Somebody make a monk and let us know if they are still awesome. Also how did they address the interrupts from 435? Also do rangers feel any better?

 

Monks still kick butt. Interrupts are less dodgy than before and IMO occur a bit less often than the previous system although it may favor Concentration reduction a bit more, I'm not sure. It's an improvement over the stun locking though.

 

Rangers are still really bad.

 

edit: Looks like they fixed the mip bug - cool!

Edited March 13, 2015 by Sensuki

[archangel979]

So what is the chance that in 13 days this game is release worthy?

[Odd Hermit]

I can't hire adventurers in the inn??

 

Combat music stops abruptly with no fade out??

 

Did you level up before trying to hire adventurers?

 

You need to be at least level 2 to hire level 1 adventurers, and from then on you can hire adventurers of up to one level lower than your character.

[Justinian]

I'm noticing the music and sounds are far better in this build. Still a couple of big gripes:

 

- Performance seems worse in this build when complex alpha effects go off, like dust or lightning. Should really be hitting 60fps at all times on even an average PC for a game this undemanding.

 

- No real improvement to combat readability especally in Dyrford crossing. Spell effects are still too overwhelming and the visual noise in combat is fatiguing.

[Sensuki]

Big difference in memory usage in this patch from the last one even. In the Dyrford, my game is now using less than 1GB of RAM, previously it was like 1.2-1.5 or somewhere around there.

[Odd Hermit]

Since the Attributes have not changed since 435, I'm going to bring this up again:

 

Suggested Modifiers:

 

MGT: +3% Damage & Healing, +3 Interrupt +2 Fortitude.

CON: +3% Endurance & Health, +3% Concentration, +2 Fortitude.

DEX: +3% Action Speed, +2 Deflection +2 Reflex.

PER: +1 Accuracy, +3 Interrupt, +3% Range +2 Reflex.

INT: +6% Duration, +2 Deflection, +2 Will.

RES: +6% AoE, +6% Concentration, +2 Will.

• There would be a greater synergy between some of the Attributes, for focused builds, such as a interrupter (Interrupt) that hits hard (MGT) and precise (PER) with every blow, the intelligent (INT) and nimble (DEX) warrior playing on his defensive strengths (Deflection), or a focused (RES) and athletic (CON) man that pushes through no matter how hard he's hit (Concentration).
• Intellect would now be an option for the intelligent, defensive warrior.
• Intellect would no longer be the one-stop-shop for casters.
• Resolve reaffirms it's position as the Attribute that represents a character's power (or wish) to influence the world or not be influenced by it.
• Constitution is no longer largely meaningless, and slightly less of a dump stat. A small but significant boost, but mostly conceptually.
• Perception may appear overvalued again, but do note that the bonus to interrupt has been cut in half. It is slightly more valuable to ranged combatants than to melee combatants, which is entirely intended.
• I had more points, I swear, but I seem to be exhibiting a bit of an aneurysm at the moment, I would edit in more, but I can't, so just live with it.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on how the Attributes should look and what modifiers they should have.

 

Con still sucks there(adding concentration to it is a good idea though) and I'd think a Dex/Int stacked tank would be incredibly cheesy with those stats as well. Think of a Godlike with +38 deflection. My Orlan Paladin tank is already starting at ~90 deflection and trivializes many encounters. Add 19 more deflection to that ...

 

I'd also say duration on resolve would make more sense to me, due to focusing on keeping an effect active or something. IDK, it's a bit vague but it feels right.

 

 

Anyway, I think the best way to balance the attributes is to carefully add talents requiring certain attributes. Con sucks? Put a talent requiring con in there that's good.

 

It's hard to balance stuff you can stack to extremes without diminishing returns as well. If they made the point buy a little more difficult to stack things that could help cut down on min/maxing being the best approach too.

[Sensuki]

- Performance seems worse in this build when complex alpha effects go off, like dust or lightning. Should really be hitting 60fps at all times on even an average PC for a game this undemanding.

 

Yeah despite apparent CPU optimizations - performance is worse for me too ... I don't know if they've done any 3D optimization. There's a bunch of unnecessary particle and VFX on spells that really does not need to be there. I've asked countless times for them to remove them but they just don't. It's infuriating.

 

Uploading a video now reporting some really horrible stuttering in the Dyrford.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Sensuki

[wanderon]

Noticed +1 con replaced +1 intellect in one of the backgrounds. I like that.

[Gairnulf]

+ New Music, music no longer fades out and stops completely for me. There was a mention of a bug related to that, but it seems to be gone.

 

+ New inrerface sounds! Thank you so much for removing the old universal click sound. The new dialogue option click is less bothering, but IMO it's still redundant, especially when there is also a character's voice to be heard in the conversation, in reply to the click. It reminds me of something like the main player character conversing with voiced characters through a khoisan clicking language

 

+ Also, well done on allowing a one handed weapon to cause a swap of weapons with a two-handed weapon when inserted into the same weapons slot. It was kind of inconvenient how you had to first remove your bow from the weapons slot and then take an axe from the inventory and add it in the bow's place, and you weren't allowed to just drop the axe on top of the bow.

 

+ Redone solid background texture. Well done, thank you!

 

+ Huge thanks for the voices slider. At least that counts as a way to turn off the selection/command sounds for the people who don't want them. Voices indeed seem to be quite loud (which I count as a good thing, for those wishing to experience the voice acting in conversations better), but the slider prevents this from becoming an issue.

 

Those were the immediately apparent things. I'm running through the beta as a Cipher currently. Will collect more impressions.

 

Big difference in memory usage in this patch from the last one even. In the Dyrford, my game is now using less than 1GB of RAM, previously it was like 1.2-1.5 or somewhere around there.

Oh yeah, the loading time when starting the game was times shorter.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Gairnulf

[Veevoir]

Speaking of balance.. How's minor threat doing? :D

In general - are there many changes to racial abilities?

[Sensuki]

 

 

Noticed +1 con replaced +1 intellect in one of the backgrounds. I like that.

 

One of them now has Perception too. I reported it as a bug instead of posting it in this forum, and they finally changed it

 

 

 

Speaking of balance.. How's minor threat doing? :D

 

They fixed the bug causing it to go off all the time.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Sensuki

[Sensuki]

+ New inrerface sounds! Thank you so much for removing the old universal click sound. The new dialogue option click is less bothering, but IMO it

The new click sounds are tinny as, they're the opposite of what I want to hear from click sounds in this game

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/70939-480-issue-with-new-click-sounds/

 

Tinny sounds upset people

 

Edited March 13, 2015 by Sensuki

[Pidesco]

Excuse me for butchering this portrait, but the hair on this portrait drives me nuts, it sits much better when the angle of the hair actually matches the angle of the head

 

like so

 

 

Isn't that a backer portrait?