Another incident with black men getting shot by police

[Gfted1]

You laugh, untill it's you at the other end.

Doubtful. In all my laps around the sun I have successfully avoided taking a face full of pepper spray. And Id like to think that if I ever find myself in that situation I would have enough common sense to shut my pie hole.

 

If it makes you feel any better, in boot camp they ushered the whole company into a shack (in formation naturally) and exposed us all to tear gas. We then had to take off our gas masks and walk single file to the door, where we had to state our name, rank and social security number before they would let us out into fresh air. You would marvel at the amount of snot your body will expel when exposed to tear gas. Its freaky.

[Gorgon]

For some reason that pic reminds me of Judge Dredd.

[BruceVC]

Yeah it appears to be  pretty damning evidence  against the police in this example...not like the other cases like Michael Brown

 

The only positive consideration  is that it was a black cop shooting a black person so there shouldn't be race riots as this shouldn't be seen in racial light ?

[Volourn]

Cowardly police at it again.

[Malcador]

Yeah it appears to be  pretty damning evidence  against the police in this example...not like the other cases like Michael Brown

 

The only positive consideration  is that it was a black cop shooting a black person so there shouldn't be race riots as this shouldn't be seen in racial light ?

 

You have some optimism, looking at the bright side in this.

[Orogun01]

Yeah it appears to be  pretty damning evidence  against the police in this example...not like the other cases like Michael Brown

 

The only positive consideration  is that it was a black cop shooting a black person so there shouldn't be race riots as this shouldn't be seen in racial light ?

So BlackLivesMatter should be WhitePeopleareRacist instead? Either you care that cops are killing people; black people in particular, because otherwise if you're just bothered when its a white guy then you're a racist.

[BruceVC]

 

Yeah it appears to be  pretty damning evidence  against the police in this example...not like the other cases like Michael Brown

 

The only positive consideration  is that it was a black cop shooting a black person so there shouldn't be race riots as this shouldn't be seen in racial light ?

So BlackLivesMatter should be WhitePeopleareRacist instead? Either you care that cops are killing people; black people in particular, because otherwise if you're just bothered when its a white guy then you're a racist.

 

 

I don't think the other incidents are irrefutable incidents of police brutality and cops using deadly force for no reason, there were extenuating circumstances . I made this clear in the various discussions we had. This is different, the guy is unarmed and gets out the car with his hands up and he gets shot..very different story don't you think ?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I don't care what race the cop or the victim is, killing people over stupid **** is wrong.

[BruceVC]

I don't care what race the cop or the victim is, killing people over stupid **** is wrong.

 

Yeah, I'm  not sure who you think  is suggesting killing people is okay?

All I said is I doubt there will be riots based on a " racist police force is killing African Americans " ?

[Valsuelm]

 

 

Yeah it appears to be  pretty damning evidence  against the police in this example...not like the other cases like Michael Brown

 

The only positive consideration  is that it was a black cop shooting a black person so there shouldn't be race riots as this shouldn't be seen in racial light ?

So BlackLivesMatter should be WhitePeopleareRacist instead? Either you care that cops are killing people; black people in particular, because otherwise if you're just bothered when its a white guy then you're a racist.

 

 

I don't think the other incidents are irrefutable incidents of police brutality and cops using deadly force for no reason, there were extenuating circumstances . I made this clear in the various discussions we had. This is different, the guy is unarmed and gets out the car with his hands up and he gets shot..very different story don't you think ?

 

 

There is no shortage of filmed footage publicly available of police assaulting or even killing unarmed people (black, white, or whatever) for little to no justifiable reason. Unfortunately there's also no shortage of DAs, judges, or juries looking the other way or justifying the unjustifiable. The former is a very serious problem, the latter is much more.

 

Are there situations where the police justifiably use force, or even deadly force? Yes, and if all the facts that were presented are true then the Michael Brown situation was one of them. Most of the situations ever brought up on this forum though are not situations where the police force was justified. The Michael Brown situation really was a manufactured story to further racial division within the US. The facts available from day one were not correctly reported in most of the media.

 

Here are two insightful commentaries I suggest you watch. The first I've linked before elsewhere on this forum, but the second I have not.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2015 by Valsuelm

[Orogun01]

You really don't expect me to believe Stefan Molyneux?

[Valsuelm]

You really don't expect me to believe Stefan Molyneux?

 

Sure... attack the messenger and not the message. Quick, do it before you even know what he says. Maybe you'll convince others to dismiss what he says without listening as well.

 

While I certainly don't agree with everything he ever says (and actually very vehemently disagree with him on some things), he far more often than not has his facts straight when talking about political issues. I challenge you provide the commentary of someone else that is even half as informative, rational, or insightful on the issues he's discussing.

 

Try actually listening to what the guy says before you dismiss him. If you're dismissive of what he says in the two videos I link I'd say you're dismissive of a great deal of reality.

 

And as far as expecting you to believe him, I doubt you'll even watch. But if you did, I'd be curious to see you debunk the facts Stephen is discussing in those two videos.

[Gromnir]

They actually do a bunch of psych evaluations for cops.  But like most tests, passing just means you were prepared for the test, not that you are actually competent.

 

edit:  The police departments in my area are constantly training.  Something like half of their on duty time is spent in training.  

 

Edit 2:  Looked it, up, my local PD does 60 mandatory hours a year, and then a bunch of optional training depending on task forces.

no doubt the tests is different today, but we recall taking various psych tests before being hired by the probation department.  one o' the tests were a written/t-f/multi-choice test and part o' being prepared for the test meant knowing how to answer some o' the questions. keep in mind that Gromnir is old, and the internet were an increasingly valuable tool but not as pervasive as it is today.  to discuss preparation for psych tests, applicants to local police, sheriffs and other law enforcement groups would either be going to same schools or colleges or they would meet at same bars or go to the same gym. am recalling specific that the physical testing were done previous to psych, and at the physical testing, at which there were a couple dozen folks, the main topic o' discussion were the psych tests and which questions were "trick" questions.  

 

so anyways, we take the silly written tests and we have 30 minute interview with a psychiatrist.  at the end o' the interview, the psychiatrist asked us if we had any questions.  am thinking he were kinda startled when we did indeed begin to ask him questions about the process.  for example, we noted that applicants seemed to be aware o' a great many o' the questions we received during the written test and the psychiatrist interview and as such we wondered if the headshrinker believed that such knowledge diminished the value o' the testing process. we also observed that particular on the written test, there were perceived wrong answers that could result in an auto-fail. "did you like the book, Alice in Wonderland?"  is one example... the applicants seemed to believe it were a drug-culture question. Gromnir observed that we did indeed like Lewis Carroll's work and as such we had answered in the affirmative. our interview with the psychiatrist were no doubt the longest he had that day.

 

the headshrinker did observe that awareness o' the tests were problematic, but not necessarily in the way we expected. for instance, the psych observed that there weren't actual 'gotcha' questions on the written test. he suspected that the Lewis Carroll question were actually part o' a group o' questions that were likely meant to identify applicant aesthetic-- the results o' the test provided crude numerical scores in various broad categories, so no individual question were any more important than any other.  

 

in any event, being prepared for the tests way back in Gromnir's day were not actual particularly useful preparation.  the misinformation surrounding the tests were more harmful than anything else. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited January 23, 2015 by Gromnir

[Hurlshort]

I guess it is good to know that misinformation is used to deter  cheating.  

 

I still think a written test is a lousy way to really assess how fit someone is to deal with a high pressure situation.  

[Gromnir]

I guess it is good to know that misinformation is used to deter  cheating.  

 

I still think a written test is a lousy way to really assess how fit someone is to deal with a high pressure situation.  

agreed, but to be fair, the written test were actual used in reverse, so to speak.  the psychiatrist we grilled were admitting that he and others frequent didn't understand what they were testing.  oh sure, they had theories and guesses, but there were no certainty. nevertheless, there were patterns that emerged from testing over time. our written test had many questions... maybe +200.  the written test took considerable more time than the psych interview. anywho, for simplicity sake, let's say that the questions on the written test all fell into 3 main categories producing 3 raw scores: red, yellow, blue. why 3? well, we don't recall how many categories there were and 3 is simple.  assume 0 for low score and 100 for high. so, persons who scored less than 10 in red and more than 80 in blue, appeared to be 10x more likely than the average applicant to eventual quit or request medical leave due to job stress.  is a noteworthy correlation, no? 

 

am agreeing that such testing is imperfect, but we cans also see from the pov o' an organization that hires large numbers o' folks... particular a government organization that need meet some different standards regarding hiring and firing.  in a thread where we is talking 'bout race and bias, using a mindless and faceless mechanical test to weed out applicants is advantageous to the government. we agree with hurl, but we understand why state/government agencies is so fond o' mechanical tests.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[licketysplit]

That was an intense video to watch. I do feel USA cops go overboard with force, and they often make the wrong snap judgments. But what the hell ever happened to doing what they say? They are the authorities, they have guns, if a cop asks me to do something, I'm going to do it immediately, rights be damned. It's just common sense. Any mistakes they make can be hashed out in a court of law. If you want to challenge them on their territory, you're asking for trouble. 

[Volourn]

So you believe in slavery?

 

 

"their territory"

 

THEIR TERRITORY? WHAT! THE HELL IS THIS!?!

 

1.  Their job is to SERVE and PROTECT.

 

\2. Does their territory include your home?

 

 

Why do people believe in slavery and nazism?

 

If we listened to what you  brainwashed people thought slavery would still be legal.  This, to me, proves that you believe slavery is a-ok. That's evil.

 

 

"Any mistakes they make can be hashed out in a court of law."

\

L0L This has been proven false repeatedly. L0L

Edited January 24, 2015 by Volourn

[Orogun01]

That was an intense video to watch. I do feel USA cops go overboard with force, and they often make the wrong snap judgments. But what the hell ever happened to doing what they say? They are the authorities, they have guns, if a cop asks me to do something, I'm going to do it immediately, rights be damned. It's just common sense. Any mistakes they make can be hashed out in a court of law. If you want to challenge them on their territory, you're asking for trouble. 

So if you're travelling with a lady friend and the cops decide to take her and you suspect less than noble intentions as they have been very forward with their actions you would wait until the courts decide after the event that the cops were committing crimes. It may not surprise you but there have been cases of cops committing rape and attempted rape.

 

Or when even if you comply the cops still decides to take out his/her anger out on you or to try to goad you into resisting arrest. 

Now, yes it might be stupid to resist arrest or antagonize cops but the fact is that courts do nothing when it comes to cop crimes. Really, they refuse to prosecute policemen that have been clearly involved in crimes. Or to do something when their entire department stands behind those crimes.

So yeah, I might have to put with it if a cop gets the bright idea that he doesn't like my manners and punches me but at this point the cops seem to be so out of control, the system seems to be doing nothing and whenever there's a cop killer lone wolf type part of me understands why they're doing it. I shouldn't be rooting for criminals just because the system offers no alternative or had been set against citizens.

[Valsuelm]

That was an intense video to watch. I do feel USA cops go overboard with force, and they often make the wrong snap judgments. But what the hell ever happened to doing what they say? They are the authorities, they have guns, if a cop asks me to do something, I'm going to do it immediately, rights be damned. It's just common sense. Any mistakes they make can be hashed out in a court of law. If you want to challenge them on their territory, you're asking for trouble. 

 

Volourn is correct.

 

If it was common sense for everyone to do what the 'authorities' say no matter what, the entire world would be under totalitarian dictatorship type governments.

[Hiro Protagonist]

Hell of a thing to run a red light. Not even a ticket. Straight to execution.

[licketysplit]

 

That was an intense video to watch. I do feel USA cops go overboard with force, and they often make the wrong snap judgments. But what the hell ever happened to doing what they say? They are the authorities, they have guns, if a cop asks me to do something, I'm going to do it immediately, rights be damned. It's just common sense. Any mistakes they make can be hashed out in a court of law. If you want to challenge them on their territory, you're asking for trouble. 

 

Volourn is correct.

 

If it was common sense for everyone to do what the 'authorities' say no matter what, the entire world would be under totalitarian dictatorship type governments.

 

 

Exaggerating there. Look, he had every chance to do what the cop asked him to do, like fifteen times. Unlike his friend, he refused to comply. I understand we all have individual rights, but we also have law. The cop said there was a gun in the glove compartment, he was on edge because of that. Then the dude refused to do anything he was asked with a gun in his face. Then the cop tells him if he gets out, he gets shot. So he gets out of the car. News so far states he had a criminal history, shooting at cops among other crimes, and this cop was aware of that. If you want to claim police abuse over a situation like that, give me a break. I've seen way worse. The guy that got choked out was way worse.

Edited January 24, 2015 by licketysplit

[Gromnir]

 

That was an intense video to watch. I do feel USA cops go overboard with force, and they often make the wrong snap judgments. But what the hell ever happened to doing what they say? They are the authorities, they have guns, if a cop asks me to do something, I'm going to do it immediately, rights be damned. It's just common sense. Any mistakes they make can be hashed out in a court of law. If you want to challenge them on their territory, you're asking for trouble. 

 

Volourn is correct.

 

If it was common sense for everyone to do what the 'authorities' say no matter what, the entire world would be under totalitarian dictatorship type governments.

 

vol was complete wrong.

 

you people watch far too much tv. 

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/68564-black-celebrity-claims-police-herassement-for-kissing-white-man-in-public/?p=1510179

 

can read Gromnir's post for what to do when stopped by cops.

 

then you can see bester's example o' a yutz who doesn't follow instructions from a cop who is exceeding authority. actual watch the video and read the responses that follow. 

 

sure, if a cop is beating you or attacking your wife, you gotta do what you gotta do, even if you is gonna lose, but refusing to follow police instructions when they is acting with color o' authority is asinine in all but the most extreme (ridiculous) examples. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Volourn]

No surprise the lawyer is all for  blindly obeying 'authority'.  Youa re the type who would be okay with slavery as long as was legal. Thanjk god people were willing to DIE and KILL for the right to be free and for others to be free.

[licketysplit]

No surprise the lawyer is all for  blindly obeying 'authority'.  Youa re the type who would be okay with slavery as long as was legal. Thanjk god people were willing to DIE and KILL for the right to be free and for others to be free.

 

Yeah so next time I run a light and get pulled over, I'm spitting in the cop's face cause muh rights. It's my right to antagonize those bastards, then play victim when they retaliate.

[Gromnir]

yes, vol response is very cute, but the guy in question got killed 'cause a couple trigger-happy cops shot him while he were failing to follow some reasonable police instructions.

 

 

"cry havoc and let slip the dogs o' war!"

 

not.

 

is no Freedom Cry. our victim in question were not blocking a tank in Tienanmen Square.  guy got shot for the same reason most people gets shot in this country: multiple people did stupid things.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps as First Amendment attorney working on behalf o' plaintiffs, our clients is ALWAYS fighting against the state. our clients is gang members and nazis and hare krishnas... not that hare krishnas is in same moral boat as nazis, but, well, point is that our clients is necessarily doing something the government says is inappropriate.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Gromnir