"No Bad Builds" a failure in practice?

[PrimeJunta]

Funny, as the PoE lore and the way the system works has more in common with anime than D&D (not that i have a problem with that)

PoE system is basicaly Naruto with "soul power" instead of chakra. Comes as a requirement with the philosophy that mundanes like fighters and rogues must be equaly strong with mages

Well, technically, yes, but they don't have to ADMIT it!

[Amentep]

Let's be really lame and just change the name of Might to "Damage."

 

 

Why not mojo while we're at it?

Potency? Eficacy? Capacity? Energy? Moxie? Prowess? Puissance? Efficiency? Mastery?

 

All are rough synonyms for might.

[Tartantyco]

And they all sound awful. Might sounds right. See, it even rhymes.

[Amentep]

I didn't say they were better, just synonymous.

 

Although I would probably slip Obsidian an extra fiver if they put "puissance" in the game.

[PrimeJunta]

And a character who dumps potency is...?

[Mayama]

The should call it ass-kicking

[Malekith]

 

Funny, as the PoE lore and the way the system works has more in common with anime than D&D (not that i have a problem with that)

PoE system is basicaly Naruto with "soul power" instead of chakra. Comes as a requirement with the philosophy that mundanes like fighters and rogues must be equaly strong with mages

Well, technically, yes, but they don't have to ADMIT it!

 

 I thought you were a big proponent of balanced classes 

[Ondb]

 

@Malekith it's not so much that power isn't fitting, it's that I associate the word with animé. I still prefer Might.

Funny, as the PoE lore and the way the system works has more in common with anime than D&D (not that i have a problem with that)

PoE system is basicaly Naruto with "soul power" instead of chakra. Comes as a requirement with the philosophy that mundanes like fighters and rogues must be equaly strong with mages

 

 

You are wrong. In naruto you have the taijutsu (only need stamina, no chakra -- just pure combat skill), others (ninjutsu, genjutsu,...) are all based on chakra. So in reality they are all wizards. Normal people that does not control chakra does not become ninjas.

[Stun]

Why not mojo while we're at it?

If Obsidian had announced a Mojo stat for PoE during the Kickstarter, I would have upped my pledge by $500. Just sayin'.

 

That would have been groovy.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Stun

[Majek]

 

 

@Malekith it's not so much that power isn't fitting, it's that I associate the word with animé. I still prefer Might.

Funny, as the PoE lore and the way the system works has more in common with anime than D&D (not that i have a problem with that)

PoE system is basicaly Naruto with "soul power" instead of chakra. Comes as a requirement with the philosophy that mundanes like fighters and rogues must be equaly strong with mages

 

 

You are wrong. In naruto you have the taijutsu (only need stamina, no chakra -- just pure combat skill), others (ninjutsu, genjutsu,...) are all based on chakra. So in reality they are all wizards. Normal people that does not control chakra does not become ninjas.

 

In Naruto nothing is thought out, Kishi just pulls everything out of his ass and makes it work to fit the idea he has at the moment when he draws a chapter. The anime team just adds more filler and you get headache.

[Amentep]

And a character who dumps potency is...?

Do your partners find your strikes fumbling and laughable?

Do you find yourself feeling unsatisfied after the ministrations of your loving healer?

Do you find your fortitude lacking and your ability to last outshined by your peers?

 

If you answered yes to any of these problems, you may be impotent. You have a weak soul and yes, everyone is laughing at you behind your back.  This happens when you view potency as a "dump stat".

 

But now, thanks to a new miracle drug, we can guarantee* an increase in your soul power. Impress your partners with your might, show them how you can strike true, strike hard and keep on striking for a long long time.

 

Now, for a low, low introductory offer, you can sample this mysterious new find in Animancy for yourself. Don't be the laughing stock of the adventure - be the life of the adventure!

 

*Results not typical; if skin lesions form, discontinue use or risk becoming corporeal undead. Offer void in the Aedyr Empire. Studies have not been sanctioned by any local government and were paid for by the manufacturer Animancy & Gamble.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Amentep

[Namutree]

 

 

@Malekith it's not so much that power isn't fitting, it's that I associate the word with animé. I still prefer Might.

Funny, as the PoE lore and the way the system works has more in common with anime than D&D (not that i have a problem with that)

PoE system is basicaly Naruto with "soul power" instead of chakra. Comes as a requirement with the philosophy that mundanes like fighters and rogues must be equaly strong with mages

 

 

You are wrong. In naruto you have the taijutsu (only need stamina, no chakra -- just pure combat skill), others (ninjutsu, genjutsu,...) are all based on chakra. So in reality they are all wizards. Normal people that does not control chakra does not become ninjas.

 

Taijutsu requires chakra just like Ninjutsu. Wait! This isn't an anime board! Oh well... 

[Malekith]

 

 

His class can be Wizard, his skill non-existent, and he'd still deal more damage with one strike than a buff Fighter who has trained his technique all his life. Or am I missing something here?

Yes you're missing something. The base melee accuracy. Very Low for wizards, Very High for fighters. Your muscle wizard would be whiffing and grazing while your fighter would be hitting and critting.

 

 

But grazing means that I didn't hit correctly. That's a different mechanic. 

I know that fighters are better at fighting than wizards, I never said that wasn't the case.

 

@Malekith: Yeah, I keep bringin up Dragonball as a comparison myself. Because physical and spiritual strength are strongly connected in these types of shows (and also in martial arts in general). But if that is the case then the game needs to put that into its world and narrative somewhere. And I have a feeling many people wouldn't like this oriental focus.

 

The game has put it into it's narrative just fine, and truth be told i find it a refreshing change as worldbuilding goes. Many people won't like it, but the same people would prefer magic to be truly magical and leave mundane classes in the dust. Since the latter is opposed to Sawyer's philosophy, these people will have problems with Sawyer's design in a higher level.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Malekith

[Malekith]

 

 

@Malekith it's not so much that power isn't fitting, it's that I associate the word with animé. I still prefer Might.

Funny, as the PoE lore and the way the system works has more in common with anime than D&D (not that i have a problem with that)

PoE system is basicaly Naruto with "soul power" instead of chakra. Comes as a requirement with the philosophy that mundanes like fighters and rogues must be equaly strong with mages

 

 

You are wrong. In naruto you have the taijutsu (only need stamina, no chakra -- just pure combat skill), others (ninjutsu, genjutsu,...) are all based on chakra. So in reality they are all wizards. .

 

And in PoE normal people that do not have strong souls do not become adventurers. All PoE classes are "supernaturals" one way or the other.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Malekith

[Karkarov]

Eeh... not so sure about that Karkarov. "Power" just inevitably leads to "over 9000" and I don't want that in an IE successor...

 

I kind of like the metaphysics of Might though. It's inherent to your soul, but the way you use it determines the rest of it. A mighty individual who becomes a wizard casts powerful spells; had he picked a career as a fighter, he would've ended up with, perhaps, a different physique as well. Think of it as inherent talent, perhaps, with your class and specializations the training that actualizes the potential.

Maybe so Junta but you can not deny that Eternity has the potential to be..... OVER 9000!!!!

 

Seriously though the only weakness the suggestion has is that one could argue Power is "counter intuitive" and implies magical strength not physical.

[Longknife]

And a character who dumps potency is...?

 

 

Good at impregnating women.

[Malekith]

 

 

Seriously though the only weakness the suggestion has is that one could argue Power is "counter intuitive" and implies magical strength not physical.

 

The same way one can argue that most people find Might to be "counter intuitive" and implies physical strength not magical?

Edited August 22, 2014 by Malekith

[Amentep]

That's why puissance is the viable alternative, I'm tellin' ya!

[Valeris]

I guess if they make Resolve and Perception more useful, lower the overall attibute points available - especially in the beginning - AND make it so that the feats/talents (yet to be released) get some interaction (the one way or the other) with attributes, the system will work in fact and in practice.

I see nothing wrong - under these conditions - with a "dumb wizard" or a "strength rogue" or a "intelligent cleric".

[Silent Winter]

That's why puissance is the viable alternative, I'm tellin' ya!

That's actually a good point - the vast majority of gamers would have to read the description to find out just what it means - no confusion

 

Lets rename them all anyway:

Thunder=might

Chaos=res

Havoc=per

Flow=dex

Bane=con

Petal=int

 

....

no, on 2nd thoughts, lets not.

[Matt516]

Yeah I think we really have to wait for the combat sounds, feedback, UI, etc to be in a better state before making big sweeping statements about this or that combat mechanic and how it doesn't do anything.

[sb5]

I see Fallout being mentioned. Actually the game was very enjoyable with a character that had his INT < 3

 

 

An idea for the attribute system: less is more

 

Frailty

Unsoundness

Clumsiness

Kidology

Idiocy

Taradiddles

[mutonizer]

There are indeed purely logical flaws in the attribute system but also some based on game mechanics. From what I've seen so far, from videos and streams:

• In the world of Eora, doing push-ups and eating your vegetables not only make you big and strong, but also, someone, ultra "magically strong". This makes no sense whatsoever. The "magical" side of Might feels completely artificial and, if just for a simply logical (if not RP) perspective, need to be changed. An obvious choice would be to move all the magical part of Might into Resolve, where it obviously belongs.
• Intellect boosting the Area of Effect of effects without, from what I've seen so far, ANY way to "reduce" the size of the Area of Effect is completely stupid. Just as stupid as boosting the duration of effects, without any way whatsoever to cancel an effect. In all the videos I've seen, a "clever" mage who likes to land nice and precise fireball and whatnot in the middle of battle would actually want the LEAST amount of Intellect possible, so he could land that spell in the melee very precisely, without wiping out his entire team. Meanwhile, big bad dumb "blow it all to pieces" mages would indeed go for high intellect...That makes no sense. A solution for this would be to offer a UI change for effects with Area of Effect: Allow the player to change the size of it when choosing where to cast it, ranging from minimum size (3 INT) to maximum size (size + max INT bonus) for example using ALT+mouse-wheel. That way, the higher your INT, the more variation in the size you'd get from very small to very large, depending on the situation. Also, there needs to be a way to cancel any current active effect you have, be it on you, someone or anywhere else.
• Attributes never give any penalties, only bonus. This to me seems to legitimate dump stats to a point I've never seen before. If you don't get penalties for having low attributes, especially since you're checks are using a d100 system + modifier, this pushes for ultra specialization with things like 18/18/18/3/3 and whatnot. And if this is allowed, the game, no matter the difficulty, risk of becoming a total cake walk for min/maxers, or, the other way around, a total nightmare for non min/maxers. That, or you'll have to make these mean nothing whatsoever in the long run (ie: due to level and item bonus over shadowing base attribute ones), and someone who keeps 3/3/3/3/3/3 won't see much differences from someone with 18/18/18/18/18 in the long run.
• 3/14/18 seems to be the current logical attribute split to choose. 3 because you don't need it whatsoever, 14 to get dialog option, 18 to max it. Anything in between feels wasted, especially in a d100 system and some defenses being split over two or three attributes.
• Skills seem to be totally separated from Attributes. If this is the case, once again, where is the logic of it? a 3/3/3/3/3 character with 7 athletics can do feats that a 18/18/18/18/18 with 6 athletics can't? Also, despite the obvious intent to avoid ultra specialization, flat requirements for skill levels, without any (apparently) purely chance based factor or check whatsoever (ie: to unlock the door in the ruined tower of the leather-worker?) will force players to do the exact opposite and go for ultra specialization, for fear on missing out. In my opinion, there needs to be d100 checks, linked to one or two attributes, as well as skills (which would weight more of course).

[Cabamacadaf]

I saw this: http://kotaku.com/how-to-balance-an-rpg-1625516832

[PrimeJunta]

Oooh, full dose of Sawyer. That deserves a thread of its own. Please, Cabamacadaf, do the honors, would you?