Police arrest, attack reporters; order reporters NOT to cover protest. IN UNITED STATES.

[Malcador]

How does it worsen the situation ?

[Hurlshort]

How does it worsen the situation ?

 

How does it worsen the situation to have communities that automatically assume the worst about law enforcement?  

[ShadySands]

Better safe than sorry 

 

I've always been of the opinion that police abuse and corruption should be called out loudly because they have real power over your life and liberty

 

and with great power comes great responsibility

 

and I'm Spiderman

Edited August 21, 2014 by ShadySands

[Guard Dog]

Law enforcement is a profession I have lost a lot of respect for over the years. The common belief is that 90% of cops are decent contentious people just trying to do a good job and 10% are that badge heavy abusive jack boot thug dirt bags. I think the reverse would be closer to reality than that. The biggest problem in law enforcement is the belief that so many of them have that that little plastic badge on their shirt makes them a better human being than everyone else. 

[Valsuelm]

 

 

Bad cops are out there, for sure.  Like any profession, you can expect about 10% of people to be terrible. 

 

10%!?!?!

 

My experience has that number at much higher across most professions, especially high when it comes to government or large corporate employees. With police specifically it's about 50/50, and I've numerous friends on the 'force'.

 

 

There is no evidence to support that.  95% of police officers will never fire their weapons in the line of duty in their career.  With video becoming more prevalent, accountability is on the rise, rather than the reverse.  

 

Look, there is always room for improvement.  This is a terribly difficult profession, it requires way more training, discipline, and accountability that your average job.  But buying into negative stereotypes is pointless, and perpetrating them only worsens the situation.

 

 

No evidence to support it? It's a subjective anecdote.

 

If you find that only 10% of the people you know are terrible at their job, and I find that far more than that tend to be.....

 

My threshold for what I consider competence is certainly higher than yours. I was speaking from experience, not from some armchair formulation of opinions based on lalalala. Also, one need not ever fire one's weapon to be a horrible or corrupt police officer.

[Malcador]

 

 

How does it worsen the situation ?

How does it worsen the situation to have communities that automatically assume the worst about law enforcement?

Heh. Well it is a fair question. In terms of public relations I doubt cops care much about what little people think of them. And the public will defer to cops out of fear rather than anything else but will defer. So not making much worse

[AGX-17]

This is new... when, exactly? The police aren't loyal to the law of the land, they're loyal to themselves and their Police Union compatriots. Decades of psychological/sociological studies have suggested such.

 

 

So, how's that hopey changy thing working for everyone?

 

Well, at least this was the one campaign promise he did keep:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fO-usAlqak

It's Obama's fault. Racism was over until he was elected by racist negroes and white race-traitors who betrayed their own race to vote for an illegal Kenyan Taliban. Police never shot young black males in the US before Obama. Or, at least, it wasn't a problem in the media before a ****** was president thanks to international espionage. It's all part of the ongoing Stalinist conspiracy to destroy democracy and freedom thereby oppressing the most oppressed and disenfranchised of all classes, white American males.

 

Racism was over when Ronald Reagan descended from heaven as the Second Coming to relieve the world of all ills. It's the liberals' fault that things like racism and poverty still exist. If science's "gravity" (a liberal fabrication) didn't exist, everyone could pull themselves up by the bootstraps and everyone would be rich and privy to free energy and unlimited resources for trade in a flawless free market devoid of inequality as defined by God in the Bible which enshrines Ayn Rand's Objectivism as the One Truth of God.

 

 

Even though Ayn Rand was an atheist who hated Reagan, as well as all other politicians.

Edited August 21, 2014 by AGX-17

[Guard Dog]

 

So, how's that hopey changy thing working for everyone?

 

Well, at least this was the one campaign promise he did keep:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fO-usAlqak

It's Obama's fault. Racism was over until he was elected by racist negroes and white race-traitors who betrayed their own race to vote for an illegal Kenyan Taliban. Police never shot young black males in the US before Obama. Or, at least, it wasn't a problem in the media before a ****** was president thanks to international espionage. It's all part of the ongoing Stalinist conspiracy to destroy democracy and freedom thereby oppressing the most oppressed and disenfranchised of all classes, white American males.

 

Racism was over when Ronald Reagan descended from heaven as the Second Coming to relieve the world of all ills. It's the liberals' fault that things like racism and poverty still exist. If science's "gravity" (a liberal fabrication) didn't exist, everyone could pull themselves up by the bootstraps and everyone would be rich and privy to free energy and unlimited resources for trade in a flawless free market devoid of inequality.

 

And to think, I once said you had no sense of humor!

[AGX-17]

 

 

So, how's that hopey changy thing working for everyone?

 

Well, at least this was the one campaign promise he did keep:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fO-usAlqak

It's Obama's fault. Racism was over until he was elected by racist negroes and white race-traitors who betrayed their own race to vote for an illegal Kenyan Taliban. Police never shot young black males in the US before Obama. Or, at least, it wasn't a problem in the media before a ****** was president thanks to international espionage. It's all part of the ongoing Stalinist conspiracy to destroy democracy and freedom thereby oppressing the most oppressed and disenfranchised of all classes, white American males.

 

Racism was over when Ronald Reagan descended from heaven as the Second Coming to relieve the world of all ills. It's the liberals' fault that things like racism and poverty still exist. If science's "gravity" (a liberal fabrication) didn't exist, everyone could pull themselves up by the bootstraps and everyone would be rich and privy to free energy and unlimited resources for trade in a flawless free market devoid of inequality.

 

And to think, I once said you had no sense of humor!

 

I have no sense of humor. I'm a perfectly rational economic actor. When Herbert Stein said Adam Smith wouldn't have worn an Adam Smith necktie, he was simply stating a fact based on the anachronism that they didn't have neckties (or Adam Smith neckties) when Adam Smith was a professor of Moral Philosophy at the University of Edinburgh. There was no broader societal implication to that which has been ignored by those who have not actually read An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations. After all, political and moral standings are binary and not fluid. If I were to say I were a "liberal" who wholeheartedly backed the 2nd Amendment, seeing it as nothing less than a guarantee to an individual right to bear arms（to bear arms is not to use arms,) I would be (metaphorically) crucified by all the people ostensibly my friends (and enemies,) regardless of the truth of my beliefs.

 

Also if I were to say I were a "progressive" who thought little of unions in this day and age given their factionalism (to say nothing of the gross injustices of governmental unions, especially on the local and state level,) I would also be drawn and quartered after my lengthy crucifixion.

Edited August 21, 2014 by AGX-17

[Zoraptor]

Bad cops are out there, for sure.  Like any profession, you can expect about 10% of people to be terrible.  There is also a culture in police departments that protects those bad cops, which is the bigger problem.

 

But if the 90% of 'good' cops protect the 10% of 'bad' cops or even just turn a blind eye how can you judge the 90% to be 'good'? They would be protecting- potentially- murderers, racists, extortioners or whatever else the 'bad' cops get up to just because they are cops, and that is as bad as (if not worse than) protecting murderers, racists, extortioners etc who are private citizens. That's the heart of the matter, these people are entrusted with power and trust. When they abuse it- or allow it to be abused- that is a fundamentally Bad Thing because it erodes that trust, breeds corruption and allows people who have committed crimes to escape punishment and go on to commit more.

 

This isn't isolated to any particular country either. We've had plenty of examples here as well, perhaps most famously where a group of police were alleged to have spent at least five years raping women, with impunity. Two were eventually convicted of one crime, 16 years later, the third was never convicted but was set to be made our top cop just prior to the whole affair blowing up- and after the other two had been convicted. A fourth avoided conviction due to another policeman deliberately aborting two trials by giving hearsay evidence, he had also covered up the original complaint against the other three. Last year we had a similar multiple instance incident involving a policeman's son where they claimed no complaint was ever laid. In reality, four were but they were never properly investigated.

 

It's ironic really, one of the arguments used for why the police can't just let things slide a bit in Ferguson is because they have to maintain control and not give the green light to bad behaviour by ignoring it. If only they applied the same logic to themselves things would be a lot better; and in the end they'd be a whole lot better for the good cops since they wouldn't be tarred by the bad eggs.

[Gromnir]

*groan*

 

the difference 'tween 10% bad cop in the US and 10% bad cop in eastern europe is brobdingnagian. bad cops here include the a-hole who gives us a speeding ticket for going 5 miles over the speed limit and acts like being a cop instantly added 6 inches to his d&$#@... and he wants to prove his extra length to you. 10% o' US cops is jerks, which ain't surprising as at least 10% o' the population is serious jerks. 10% o' bank employees is jerks. 10% o' supermarket clerks is jerks. 50% o' dmv employees is jerks... go figure. what you folks in eastern europe means by bad is that sodomizing folks with baseball bats and running white slavery rings.

 

*shakes head*

 

serious folks. some of y'all gotta get a grip. no doubt there is folks here who genuine believe that cop encounters in the US is dangerous and even potential lethal, and if you feel that way perhaps that approach will serve you well. but statisticaly speaking, violent crime has been on a steady decrease in the US since the late 90s and in spite o' the fact that everybody and their brother has smart phones and instant access to video and photographic image creation, valid claims 'gainst cops has also decreased save in some noteworthy locales. 

 

now sure, we also has bad cops here that folks in eastern europe would recognize as bad. is corrupt US cops who hurt people and steal and is racist aholes, but am not certain if this is media nonsense you people is buying into or that you watch too many movies like training day or... lord knows what you people think.

 

*shrug*

 

we has dealt with many (too many) cops while we worked juvenile hall and then during our brief stint at US attorney's office. we lived on a reservation as a kid, so we dealt with white cops in south dakota, then we moved to one o' the more notorious neighborhoods in chicago. we got loads o' experience with cops, and our worstest genuine experiences, with one exception. were that we couldn't get cops (or firemen) to come to our neighborhood in a reasonable and timely fashion. bad cop in south chicago were not so much cops shooting innocent folks, but that cops didn't show up til they weren't needed no more.

 

this ferguson stuff gives people an extreme distorted notion o' reality. is too bad. there is bad cops. there is racist cops, but genuine dangerous cops in the US is probable less than 1%. at the moment in ferguson, you got cops with 0 practical crowd control experience from a dozen or more municipalities trying to work together and protect themselves and the public and they is doing a poor job. shocking? mot really. 

 

Following Police Instructions Does Not Make You A Punk.

 

get young males o' all races to actual believe the aforementioned would save lots o' grief.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Malcador]

Someone brought up Eastern Europe as a bastion of good policing ?

 

This is also in line http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/08/19/im-a-cop-if-you-dont-want-to-get-hurt-dont-challenge-me/

 

Even if the tone seems to be more on lecturing the public to give respect rather than indicating the police have to earn it or actually serve the public.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Malcador

[Zoraptor]

Someone brought up Eastern Europe as a bastion of good policing ?

 

Not really, Gromnir brought it up previously and basically no one else has said anything, except Nepenthe noting it wasn't a very flattering comparison for US police.

 

Given the context I wouldn't be surprised if he thought I was Russian rather than being a proud citizen of the least corrupt* nation of earth**, and he was Scoring a Point by mentioning eastern Europe's police.

 

*alternative interpretation since it's a perception index: country best at self delusion, burying their head in the sand and being smug about not being corrupt.

**OK, equal with Denmark. Bloody Scandics, always getting in our way on the indices.

[Valsuelm]

Someone brought up Eastern Europe as a bastion of good policing ?

 

I didn't bring it up but the Stasi seem to indeed be what many western nations are attempting to emulate these days... Certainly my nation has taken a left turn down that road and hit the gas.

[Gromnir]

bester mentioned how he/she would never come to the US because of cops. bester is eastern euro (you may scroll up). zor is just a honk for euros who is naturally contrary and has inexplicably defended weird russian choices on more than one occasion... the ukraine thread being indicative o' zor's more obvious tinfoil hat moments.

 

*shrug*

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps please do not forget the silly rt links we has seen in this thread.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Gromnir

[Hurlshort]

Someone brought up Eastern Europe as a bastion of good policing ?

 

This is also in line http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/08/19/im-a-cop-if-you-dont-want-to-get-hurt-dont-challenge-me/

 

Even if the tone seems to be more on lecturing the public to give respect rather than indicating the police have to earn it or actually serve the public.

 

Malc, you talk about the police having to earn your respect.  How exactly do you see that happening?

 

If there is a gunman loose on my campus firing off rounds, every cop I know will respond by heading towards the shooting, even the jerks.  Is that not enough enough for a bit of respect?

 

If you are in a major accident on the freeway, the Highway Patrol is going to be the first on the scene, and they are going to do everything they can to save your life.  That doesn't get a smidgen of respect?

 

Don't try to feed me this bull about it being their job.  Their salary is good, but it isn't 'risk your life' good, and yet they train to put themselves in the line of fire whenever necessary to save others.  So yeah, the default should be respect until they prove they don't deserve it.       

[BruceVC]

bester mentioned how he/she would never come to the US because of cops. bester is eastern euro. zor is just a honk for euros.

 

*shrug*

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

 

 

Someone brought up Eastern Europe as a bastion of good policing ?

 

Not really, Gromnir brought it up previously and basically no one else has said anything, except Nepenthe noting it wasn't a very flattering comparison for US police.

 

Given the context I wouldn't be surprised if he thought I was Russian rather than being a proud citizen of the least corrupt* nation of earth**, and he was Scoring a Point by mentioning eastern Europe's police.

 

*alternative interpretation since it's a perception index: country best at self delusion, burying their head in the sand and being smug about not being corrupt.

**OK, equal with Denmark. Bloody Scandics, always getting in our way on the indices.

 

 

I notice you and Zora aren't debating each other anymore, you both get did a little personal in your last debates. I enjoy you guys debating because you both have intellectual and interesting styles of debating etiquette

 

My advice is both apologize to each other and both admit things got a little heated? Also I learnt something years ago, and I know this is hard to implement on a forum, but in life  you can sometimes  lose an argument or debate when you win it , because the person you are debating with gets such a bad impression by the end of the debate that they decide they won't   discuss anything with you anymore...they would rather just avoid you because of the potential acrimony that comes with having a debate. And to be avoided in life because of what people perceive about you is never a good thing, especially if the person has lot to offer other people. And both of you do have a lot to offer others

[Gromnir]

 

bester mentioned how he/she would never come to the US because of cops. bester is eastern euro. zor is just a honk for euros.

 

*shrug*

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

 

 

Someone brought up Eastern Europe as a bastion of good policing ?

 

Not really, Gromnir brought it up previously and basically no one else has said anything, except Nepenthe noting it wasn't a very flattering comparison for US police.

 

Given the context I wouldn't be surprised if he thought I was Russian rather than being a proud citizen of the least corrupt* nation of earth**, and he was Scoring a Point by mentioning eastern Europe's police.

 

*alternative interpretation since it's a perception index: country best at self delusion, burying their head in the sand and being smug about not being corrupt.

**OK, equal with Denmark. Bloody Scandics, always getting in our way on the indices.

 

 

I notice you and Zora aren't debating each other anymore, you both get did a little personal in your last debates. I enjoy you guys debating because you both have intellectual and interesting styles of debating etiquette

 

My advice is both apologize to each other and both admit things got a little heated? Also I learnt something years ago, and I know this is hard to implement on a forum, but in life  you can sometimes  lose an argument or debate when you win it , because the person you are debating with gets such a bad impression by the end of the debate that they decide they won't   discuss anything with you anymore...they would rather just avoid you because of the potential acrimony that comes with having a debate. And to be avoided in life because of what people perceive about you is never a good thing, especially if the person has lot to offer other people. And both of you do have a lot to offer others

 

*chuckle*

 

closest to heated we has gotten in months is ros bs notions wherein he assumed that he knew what life is like for Gromnir simple base on fact that we is American... and speaking to his ancestors raping our ancestors, we kid you not.

 

zor can't get us heated. we like zor posts. is too little humor on these boards.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[BruceVC]

 

 

bester mentioned how he/she would never come to the US because of cops. bester is eastern euro. zor is just a honk for euros.

 

*shrug*

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

 

 

Someone brought up Eastern Europe as a bastion of good policing ?

 

Not really, Gromnir brought it up previously and basically no one else has said anything, except Nepenthe noting it wasn't a very flattering comparison for US police.

 

Given the context I wouldn't be surprised if he thought I was Russian rather than being a proud citizen of the least corrupt* nation of earth**, and he was Scoring a Point by mentioning eastern Europe's police.

 

*alternative interpretation since it's a perception index: country best at self delusion, burying their head in the sand and being smug about not being corrupt.

**OK, equal with Denmark. Bloody Scandics, always getting in our way on the indices.

 

 

I notice you and Zora aren't debating each other anymore, you both get did a little personal in your last debates. I enjoy you guys debating because you both have intellectual and interesting styles of debating etiquette

 

My advice is both apologize to each other and both admit things got a little heated? Also I learnt something years ago, and I know this is hard to implement on a forum, but in life  you can sometimes  lose an argument or debate when you win it , because the person you are debating with gets such a bad impression by the end of the debate that they decide they won't   discuss anything with you anymore...they would rather just avoid you because of the potential acrimony that comes with having a debate. And to be avoided in life because of what people perceive about you is never a good thing, especially if the person has lot to offer other people. And both of you do have a lot to offer others

 

*chuckle*

 

closest to heated we has gotten in months is ros bs notions wherein he assumed that he knew what life is like for Gromnir simple base on fact that we is American... and speaking to his ancestors raping our ancestors, we kid you not.

 

zor can't get us heated. we like zor posts. is too little humor on these boards.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

Okay, well that's good to know

 

I thought you guys were avoiding debating each other, it wasn't like you both said " I'm done debating with you and I'm going to block you " ( that's happened to me and its never nice to think someone wants to block your posts)...its more what you two didn't say to each other after the last discussion

[Lexx]

Oh no, not you Hercules. :/

 

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/21/actor-kevin-sorbo-ferguson-unrest-let-black-protesters-be-the-animals-they-truly-are/

[IndiraLightfoot]

Well, that video they just released about this awful shooting, it says it all. The police shot Powell in broad daylight for being cheeky - execution style- emptying mags. In my book, that's murder, nothing else! I hope they get brought to justice and get what they deserve, all of them present there.

 

On the police and the US, specifically; let's just say that police forces all over the world, even in the richest and presumably most civilised countries, kill innocent people, and exercise excessive violence far too often. It's nothing unique to the US. However, the American police seems to be better armed than most other police forces around the world. Policemen and policewomen with the latest military grade equipment is a lethal combination.

Edited August 22, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[obyknven]

Old Soviet caricature about how US cry about violating of Human rights in the World.

[Zoraptor]

I thought you guys were avoiding debating each other, it wasn't like you both said " I'm done debating with you and I'm going to block you " ( that's happened to me and its never nice to think someone wants to block your posts)...its more what you two didn't say to each other after the last discussion

 

 

I don't block anyone- even gimmick accounts who commit grievous insults against the purity of dear sweet logic. If you don't have the discipline not to reply to something pointless you're either taking things far too seriously or should remove yourself from the internet for your own sanity. Or you have far too much time on your hands.

[Malcador]

Malc, you talk about the police having to earn your respect.  How exactly do you see that happening?

 

If there is a gunman loose on my campus firing off rounds, every cop I know will respond by heading towards the shooting, even the jerks.  Is that not enough enough for a bit of respect?

 

If you are in a major accident on the freeway, the Highway Patrol is going to be the first on the scene, and they are going to do everything they can to save your life.  That doesn't get a smidgen of respect?

 

Don't try to feed me this bull about it being their job.  Their salary is good, but it isn't 'risk your life' good, and yet they train to put themselves in the line of fire whenever necessary to save others.  So yeah, the default should be respect until they prove they don't deserve it.

It is their job, why is it bull to point that out ? Good for them doing what they're trained up and kitted out for. Good for you that you really like police and probably are of the line that they are heroes for putting on the badge each morning. I do suppose they warrant respect the same way you view the employee at the DMV, both are public servants (don't tell the police that though) and do their job. Just the article having an ex-cop with a one sided lecture with lip service to points on his own side was rather amusing.

 

I'd say cop salaries, at least here locally, are pretty good - 100K+ with benefits and they tend to die infrequently (last one died as the hero forgot to buckle his seatbelt and was speeding..) and show up with overwhelming force (e.g. 8 cops for a drunk, 4 cops for an old lady shouting in her home). I think in the US last year 50 cops or so were killed in duty, from a search, rather than a car accident or a heart attack.

 

Still, you'd think the police organizations near uniform mafia like behaviour or disdain for civilians (someone hasn't told them they are that) or militarization would be enough to cause a loss of respect for them.

[BruceVC]

 

I thought you guys were avoiding debating each other, it wasn't like you both said " I'm done debating with you and I'm going to block you " ( that's happened to me and its never nice to think someone wants to block your posts)...its more what you two didn't say to each other after the last discussion

 

 

I don't block anyone- even gimmick accounts who commit grievous insults against the purity of dear sweet logic. If you don't have the discipline not to reply to something pointless you're either taking things far too seriously or should remove yourself from the internet for your own sanity. Or you have far too much time on your hands.

 

 

Same as me, I've never blocked anyone ever. I just choose not to comment if I don't want to and I also  believe if you block someone who you always disagree with you won't ever understand any dissenting opinions. And sometimes different perspectives are important to understand a big picture around a topic

Edited August 22, 2014 by BruceVC