Update #83: Backer Portal, Backer Beta, and Wasteland 2 Keys

[Bendu]

Yes, gonna spam my steam timeline with a lot of PoE screenshots.

[HelicopterNissan]

Well I hope my laptop can run the Beta + final game. I went ahead and purchased both since I have been getting addicted to BGII again lately. I have a Sony Vaio with the integrated graphics chip Intel Core i5-2410M and 4GB RAM. Anyone know about requirements yet? I have searched and can't find anything recent.

[mudd1]

Well, the delayed Linux release is bumming me out a bit. A few weeks can be a very long time when everybody's already talking about the game.

 

Did you test any recent build in Wine? And would I be able to get my saves from the Windows to the Linux version once it gets out, either via Steam or by just copying them over?

 

Edit: Oh well, never mind. I just realized that this beta is just for rich people anyway so I'm out no matter the platform.

Edited August 9, 2014 by mudd1

[Cluas]

Thanks for the update, and thanks to all at Obsidian, for their good, hard work 

Edited August 9, 2014 by Cluas

[HoonDing]

So many people online, I figured some new crap was announced.

[Spike Spiegel 28]

Just to make things clear. We now can buy Addons to our existing orders but we still cannot upgrade our pledge tier right? So when I would like to upgrade that I would need to go to the support and tell them to cancel my current order (at least to the point where it is not finalized anymore)? Is that correct or is there at this point no way anymore to upgrade to a higher tier? Other than that great news and love what you doing with the Backers Beta and that keys are just beta keys and that you are not logged in to steam when you play the Beta.

Edited August 9, 2014 by Spike Spiegel 28

[aozgolo]

I bought the 45$ tier awhile back but wanted to upgrade to the $50 tier, when I opened a support ticket they said functionality for changing pledge tiers would be implemented in a future update.

With the add-ons now there and the physical goods deadline set I am assuming this change is implemented but I still see no way of upgrading my pledge.

Is there not going to be a way for people like myself to just throw another 5$ on top of our original pledge to get the physical boxed copy?

[Osvir]

Great update!

I posted before the update here ("The August Update creeping ever closer - hopes and fears"), pretty much encompasses my current thoughts.

Edited August 9, 2014 by Osvir

[Skipperro]

Beta for Windows only? Sorry folks, but I've paid for beta access so if it won't work in wine/PlayonLinux and I don't get a native beta for linux up to two weeks after initial beta release, I will request a refund. I've backed this project mostly because of linux support. I've made such a mistake once with Tropico 5 preorder (wich doesn't have linux support yet, although it was widely announced), but I would never expect to be backstabbed in such a way by my #1 developer ever - Obsidian.

 

I would be content again if one of the crew run current build in wine and tell if it works. Thanks.

[Bryy]

Beta for Windows only? Sorry folks, but I've paid for beta access so if it won't work in wine/PlayonLinux and I don't get a native beta for linux up to two weeks after initial beta release, I will request a refund. I've backed this project mostly because of linux support. I've made such a mistake once with Tropico 5 preorder (wich doesn't have linux support yet, although it was widely announced), but I would never expect to be backstabbed in such a way by my #1 developer ever - Obsidian.

 

I would be content again if one of the crew run current build in wine and tell if it works. Thanks.

People really need to stop acting like this is a pre-order where the money is just there to give back. They spent the money and the game is locked. You donated money. How selfish does it sound to want money you donated given back?

 

And demanding a port? In two weeks?

[Ineth]

And demanding a port? In two weeks?

Well, that's the problem: PC game developers still seem to approach "Mac and Linux support" as more of an afterthought. As in: "We'll develop it for Windows just like we always did, and then when it's almost done we'll start to think about porting concerns".

And when that time comes, it usually turns out that Windows-specific assumptions were made along the way, and porting requires redesigning part of the code. With the result that it has sort of become industry standard to delay the Mac & Linux releases for a few weeks after the Windows one.

 

I would wager that game developers could save themselves quite a bit of development cost (and customer disappointment) if instead, they'd consistently develop with cross-platformness in mind from the start (and briefly test their work-in progress on all platforms at each development milestone).

 

But I guess they're still adapting to the increasingly multi-platform world that PC gaming is becoming.

In time, they will surely learn... In time...

Edited August 9, 2014 by Ineth

[Mihura]

Does anyone know if the beta has the full game or just some parts?

[Ark Evensong]

We sure do.

 

The Backer Beta will not include the full game - only a comparatively small area, not on the 'critical path' of the story/game. Basically side-quest material. So no story spoilers.

Edited August 9, 2014 by Ark Evensong

[Mihura]

We sure do.

 

The Backer Beta will not include the full game - only a comparatively small area, not on the 'critical path' of the story/game. Basically side-quest material. So no story spoilers.

 

Oh that is kinda strange than, why not call it a demo than? I really though the beta was suppose to have the full game but with bugs. I regret now buying the add-on lol

[Mannock]

 

We sure do.

 

The Backer Beta will not include the full game - only a comparatively small area, not on the 'critical path' of the story/game. Basically side-quest material. So no story spoilers.

 

Oh that is kinda strange than, why not call it a demo than? I really though the beta was suppose to have the full game but with bugs. I regret now buying the add-on lol

 

 

Oh, but you'll still get the bugs, so that's atleast one thing less to be sad about.

[Lephys]

Well, that's the problem: PC game developers still seem to approach "Mac and Linux support" as more of an afterthought. As in: "We'll develop it for Windows just like we always did, and then when it's almost done we'll start to think about porting concerns".

And when that time comes, it usually turns out that Windows-specific assumptions were made along the way, and porting requires redesigning part of the code. With the result that it has sort of become industry standard to delay the Mac & Linux releases for a few weeks after the Windows one.

Well, it's not as if they just spent 100% effort on getting Windows going, and now that that's at beta, they're cracking their knuckles to get started on the other platforms. Didn't the update say it should be ready within a couple of weeks, if not sooner?

 

I don't see what good it does to delay one version JUST so they both come out at the same time. And yeah, they probably do Windows first, because the majority of users are still using it. That's not personal bias. That's just objectivity.

 

Unfortunately, we are all subject to time, and cannot do several things simultaneously. Thus, things happen in chronological order. Such is life.

 

Oh that is kinda strange than, why not call it a demo than? I really though the beta was suppose to have the full game but with bugs.

Because it's a beta, and not a demo. A demo is just a segment of a game, so that you can try part of it. a Beta is specifically a not-yet-complete version of the game distributed for the purposes of collecting useful data towards the completion and polishing of that game.

 

No one ever said a beta has to be the whole game, just early and with bugs. Just because most "betas" tend to be "early access" or demos doesn't mean that's what a beta is.

 

Besides, with a game like this, there are parts that don't really need as much testing as others. You don't really need thousands of people to play-test a narrative. You need them to playtest the mechanics. The "If you say this, then this happens" switches and such are relatively passive. There's not a lot of dynamic stuff going on with "if this, then this" dialogue responses and "cinematic" story events, etc. They need testing, sure, but not as much.

Edited August 9, 2014 by Lephys

[Flow]

I would wager that game developers could save themselves quite a bit of development cost (and customer disappointment) if instead, they'd consistently develop with cross-platformness in mind from the start (and briefly test their work-in progress on all platforms at each development milestone).

 

But I guess they're still adapting to the increasingly multi-platform world that PC gaming is becoming.

In time, they will surely learn... In time...

 

 

Considering Mac and Linux combined make up about 10% of PC users, the fact that most everyone develops on and for Windows first should not surprise you.

 

Obsidian committed to delivering Mac and Linux versions of PoE, and I'm sure that's what they'll do. They did not promise to deliver all platforms simultaneously in beta. Unity is a cross-platform engine from the start, so I doubt the delay will be lengthy.

[ManifestedISO]

Somewhere, someday, someone will complete a doctoral thesis on comment psychology.

 

"Twenty-one percent of responses each from twelve percent of control group B1 entrants produced qualitatively false data expressly for the purpose of consideration by other entrants to elicit regard as 'knowledgeable' and/or 'skilled'. Most-numerous themed incidents qualified as 'simple ultimatum' based on 'dissatisfaction' after completing false data construct. Most-numerous repeat turn of phrase, 'I'm taking my ball and going home if you don't play by my rules'." 

[mudd1]

 

And demanding a port? In two weeks?

Well, that's the problem: PC game developers still seem to approach "Mac and Linux support" as more of an afterthought. As in: "We'll develop it for Windows just like we always did, and then when it's almost done we'll start to think about porting concerns".

And when that time comes, it usually turns out that Windows-specific assumptions were made along the way, and porting requires redesigning part of the code. With the result that it has sort of become industry standard to delay the Mac & Linux releases for a few weeks after the Windows one.

 

I would wager that game developers could save themselves quite a bit of development cost (and customer disappointment) if instead, they'd consistently develop with cross-platformness in mind from the start (and briefly test their work-in progress on all platforms at each development milestone).

 

But I guess they're still adapting to the increasingly multi-platform world that PC gaming is becoming.

In time, they will surely learn... In time...

 

Maybe you have more experience on large multi-platform projects than I do. I have only been involved in small cross-platform projects so far but my experience from those is that you don't need to make any assumptions for platforms to act up. Heck, even different configurations running the same OS do very strange things sometimes.

 

If you read up, I was also kinda disappointed that there's a delay (even though it doesn't affect me as I didn't back the beta) but to say that this is a clear indication for sloppy development is not an assessment I share. It merely shows that testing on other platforms didn't have the same priority and was probably an afterthought. Would I have liked them to use some kind of cross-platform continuous integration setup? Sure. But I can also understand why a relatively small team doesn't have that kind of infrastructure.

[Hassat Hunter]

Hmmm, I've heard this before... and then the Steam-keys became actual keys afterall and a big mess ensured. Hopefully OE evades that.

 

Also Larian said that the beta-feedback really helped them and in the future they wouldn't lock it to certain paid tiers, since everyone's feedback can help a lot.

Of course, might not be the case here, but just pointing it out.

 

Personally not that anxious for it, they can never repeat the experience "wins beta key, gets over to offices, has ingame character" that somehow happened with D:OS (still not sure how), I can wait till december...

From what I hear the beta is mostly combat-testing anyway, and I'm personally not that interested by that part, more the story and quests and all... would think it's boring going through the game with that methicallously cut-out...

[Sensuki]

I'd say in this case it's partially a budgetary concern. They have been developing mac and linux concurrently but I'd say that's mostly just Adam Brennecke or Steve Weatherly assigned to it - just like Double Fine had their lead programmer working on it alone.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Sensuki

[Ineth]

I don't see what good it does to delay one version JUST so they both come out at the same time. And yeah, they probably do Windows first, because the majority of users are still using it. That's not personal bias. That's just objectivity.

 

Well, my point was that developing for multiple platforms concurrently, will probably end up costing less development time/effort overall than dealing with platforms sequentially.

 

 

Unity is a cross-platform engine from the start

 

to say that this is a clear indication for sloppy development is not an assessment I share. It merely shows that testing on other platforms didn't have the same priority and was probably an afterthought.

 

They have been developing mac and linux concurrently but I'd say that's mostly just Adam Brennecke or Steve Weatherly assigned to it - just like Double Fine had their lead programmer working on it alone.

 

Fair enough.

 

I guess I read too much into Bryy's "And demanding a port? In two weeks?" - combined with the fact that some PC game developers really do proceed like I described, even to the point of designing their whole code around the DirectX and win32 APIs and assuming a Windows-like filesystem and using Windows-only audio/gfx effects libraries etc., and then at the end just hire a third-party company to "port" it to Mac & Linux.

 

You're right that the beta delay is not proof of such practices; it may well just be that unexpected problems turned up on (some configurations of) those platforms during playtesting, which need to be ironed out. Let's hope it doesn't take too long.

[NWN_babaYaga]

If they didnt say that the beta will be ready for mac/ linux then there is no reason to be upset at all. .. Usualy you say what you support and not what is out of question...but i remember the stupid story of someone throwing a cat into a microwave and then complaining about the exploded kitty because it wasnt stated in the manual that kittys dont come out very healthy....

Edited August 10, 2014 by NWN_babaYaga

[Ark Evensong]

Well, there'd have to be a balance of some kind. If you develop all three versions absolutely concurrently, you just might end up fixing the same problem three times. Or end up fixing things that would've worked themselves out later. Bugtesting, too - it'll probably muddy the waters between global and platform related bugs. Easier if you test your cross-platform with a known-issues list. Anything new is likely to do with the platform implementation.

 

As such, I see no problem whatsoever with having one version be a couple of weeks ahead of the other ones.

 

But yeah, designing your code with multiplatform in mind is good practice.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Ark Evensong

[mudd1]

I guess I read too much into Bryy's "And demanding a port? In two weeks?" - combined with the fact that some PC game developers really do proceed like I described, even to the point of designing their whole code around the DirectX and win32 APIs and assuming a Windows-like filesystem and using Windows-only audio/gfx effects libraries etc., and then at the end just hire a third-party company to "port" it to Mac & Linux.

 

You're right that the beta delay is not proof of such practices; it may well just be that unexpected problems turned up on (some configurations of) those platforms during playtesting, which need to be ironed out. Let's hope it doesn't take too long.

 

Let's put it this way, the availability of the Linux/Mac beta some weeks into the beta period most likely means that the final game will be available for all platforms from day 1. That's more than can be said from many a big studio who have much less of an excuse not to hire a couple of guys whose only job throughout the project it is to ensure that the game runs on all platforms.

 

Linux ports are still much too rare to be really pissed at, say, Firaxis and 2K for releasing the next Civilization for Windows only and not even giving a release date for the other platforms (at least as far as I have seen so far) but it does annoy me. This delay, however, really isn't something to be anything but mildly disappointed about, especially given the fact there probably won't be much story in the beta that would force you to shut down your social media like a British Game of Thrones viewer.