Wasteland 2 Kickstarted

[Gromnir]

Yeah, I'm tooling around with it a bit now, and STR does seem oddly weak for combat purposes.  Why does it only boost damage when you get a critical, and why by so little?  A world-class strongman is only 9% more damaging on a really good punch than is the prototypical 98 lb. weakling? 

 

Its primary effect seems to be on HP.  (And, apparently, as an equipment threshold.)  But damage prevention-- by getting them before they get you-- is almost always superior to damage soaking in this kind of game.  So I see where the CI-advocates are coming from.  Much like the more-effective Fallout characters, the END-equivalent is looking like a persistent dump stat. 

sadly/stoopidly, the equipment threshold is meaningful, particularly for front-line combatants. is ridiculous that a stat you might happily drop to 1 needs to be at 4 or 5 because of 1 piece of gear? 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Hiro Protagonist II]

There's discussion in Codex that

 

(1) Total of STR+SPD+INT provide AP in multiples of 4. 

(2) Combat Initiative is super important, because that gives you more turns than your opponent as well as just starting with your turn

(3) Coordination can be dumped because bonus to hit chance is minimal compared to what you get from skill points

 

It follows that 

 

(1) INT and SPD are most important stats, because they give AP, combat initiative, skill points, etc. 

(2) You may want 4/5 STR for some people to wear heavy armour, but higher is not really optimal

(3) Coordination, Luck and Charisma can often be ignored for powergaming purposes

 

This is very close to my party. I found Luck to be the dump stat. Similar with Charisma which I dumped on 3 of my characters but put it up for one with the Leadership skill. I put INT and SPD up and strength is either 4 or 5 with most of my characters.

[Volourn]

"All my members had a hit percent of around 40-60"

 

Do you kneel before Zod? That adds like 10%. Also, making sure you are close/far enough to use the weapon at greatest chance helps. Submachine guns are close at clsoe range/crap at far range vice versa for sniper rifle. My sniper can shoot as much as 94% at far range and has horrid % at close and even 0% in meele. Also, leadership can boost  accuracy pretty good too. So many ways to boost %.

 

 

"Its primary effect seems to be on HP.  (And, apparently, as an equipment threshold.) "

 

It also gives you AP.

 

 

"sadly/stoopidly, the equipment threshold is meaningful, particularly for front-line combatants. is ridiculous that a stat you might happily drop to 1 needs to be at 4 or 5 because of 1 piece of gear?"

 

Boo hoo. You gotta make a choice. Besdies, if you lower your strength you can't carry much which means loading up on bullets/healing stuffs let alone stuff to sell could be trouble. Plus, con does matter since some nemies can do major damage so you need the hit points to at least take a few hits.

 

Also, on top of that, you don't need  high strength to get good armour. Plenty of solid armour chocies that require no strength so why you whinin' about it? If anything, theres hould be more limits.

 

OMG! That makes strength important. There's a few real dump stats that cna be worked on.

 

Still, I'd rather have 'unbalanced' stats than boring dumbed down 'balanced' stats.

 

 

R00fles!

Edited September 23, 2014 by Volourn

[Enoch]

The problem with the equipment threshold is that it's a gotcha. 

 

The game tells you straight out what the consequences are for most of attribute decisions, but it leaves the equipment threshold information out.  All the description of STR says is a vague statement about it letting you "use heavy weapons."  That'd be one thing if there were a variety of STR-indexed items or if there were a mechanic like in F:NV where you could use an item above your STR at decreased effectiveness.  But here we have 1 threshold that matters above all others, no wiggle room, and no warning to the player.  Somebody making a front-line shotgunner (or whatever) might decide based on the information presented that 4 STR is enough for his HP purposes, not knowing that 1 more point would make a dramatic difference in his character's effectiveness. 

[Volourn]

Boo hoo. While it be ncie for more info the oncept is not a 'gotcha'. Nice try though. Also, the manual tells you armour has strength requirements.

 

That said, bugs wise, the braggarts will like to know that I'm getting more 'blue screens of death' that restarts my computer. LMAO

Edited September 23, 2014 by Volourn

[Gizmo]

Inxile's forum is down at the moment.

[Marceror]

There's discussion in Codex that

 

(1) Total of STR+SPD+INT provide AP in multiples of 4. 

(2) Combat Initiative is super important, because that gives you more turns than your opponent as well as just starting with your turn

(3) Coordination can be dumped because bonus to hit chance is minimal compared to what you get from skill points

 

It follows that 

 

(1) INT and SPD are most important stats, because they give AP, combat initiative, skill points, etc. 

(2) You may want 4/5 STR for some people to wear heavy armour, but higher is not really optimal

(3) Coordination, Luck and Charisma can often be ignored for powergaming purposes

You forgot awareness, the best source of CI. A character with high Awareness, Speed and Int is going to be very strong in combat, assuming a good number of survival points are spent on combat skills.

[Lexx]

Inxile's forum is down at the moment.

It's super slow / down since release of the game.

[CoM_Solaufein]

Their forum is up. That forum software is crap. If they wanted freebie forum software they could have went with SMF which is better than phpBB.

[Marceror]

They just came up on new servers, and things are actually quite speedy now.

[BruceVC]

Boo hoo. While it be ncie for more info the oncept is not a 'gotcha'. Nice try though. Also, the manual tells you armour has strength requirements.

 

That said, bugs wise, the braggarts will like to know that I'm getting more 'blue screens of death' that restarts my computer. LMAO

Volo are you not worried that this game is too old school and hardcore for you to enjoy in the long term?

 

In other words does it have real replayability?

[Volourn]

Why? Old skool games have tons of replayability. I doubt I'll do as much replays as before because I'ma n old man and don't have the time to but it's possible. The game has everything needed to be 'replayable' unlike DOS which I actually tried to replay even making 2 new aprties but I simply couldn't get back into it.Even early on, two areas change quite a bit based on a choice you make.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Volourn

[Orogun01]

Dear God, this game is a ****ing mess. Is like they took all the frustration of the old school crap and topped it all with tedium.

[Marceror]

Dear God, this game is a ****ing mess. Is like they took all the frustration of the old school crap and topped it all with tedium.

I too think it's absolutely awesome.

[Enoch]

Question:  How do the medical skills scale?

 

I notice that relieving certain conditions depends on meeting threshold requirements in your Surgeon skill.  Does this continue all the way up to 10?  (I.e., are there any conditions that you need a super-high Surgeon skill to fix?) 

 

Do additional ranks of Field Medic have any effect other than the HP yield of healing items? 

 

What I'm mostly trying to figure out is whether one or both would be a good candidate for developing to middle-levels and then abandoning in favor of other skills. 

Edited September 23, 2014 by Enoch

[Keyrock]

Is there any item in the game that can heal a concussion or am I screwed until I find a "real doctor" somewhere?

[Orogun01]

Is there any item in the game that can heal a concussion or am I screwed until I find a "real doctor" somewhere?

Rest

[Gromnir]

Question:  How do the medical skills scale?

 

I notice that relieving certain conditions depends on meeting threshold requirements in your Surgeon skill.  Does this continue all the way up to 10?  (I.e., are there any conditions that you need a super-high Surgeon skill to fix?) 

 

Do additional ranks of Field Medic have any effect other than the HP yield of healing items? 

 

What I'm mostly trying to figure out is whether one or both would be a good candidate for developing to middle-levels and then abandoning in favor of other skills. 

 

the beta, at the time we played it, did not reveal what were an effective end-game basement level for medical skills. we were stuck in arizona, so an answer based on experience would not be enlightening. However, player feedback of the beta did note that the joinable med skills npc obtainable at the ag center did not have an intelligence that would allow med skills to be developed deep into the game. her int would be equivalent to a 4 in the release day version of wasteland 2.  inxile boosted that character's intelligence to 10.

 

since we is going old skoole, you may need to wait til a few players get deep in the game and post their impressions before you get a definitive answer. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Enoch]

Is the INT threshold for Surgeon still in the game?  I see it on the wiki, but a lot of the stuff there is legacy info from the beta.  And, as far as I can recall, the in-game tool-tip didn't mention it at all. 

 

If it's still there, it is seriously weird that only 1 skill has a clear Attribute requirement.  (And that it's tied to an Attribute that is already overpowered.)  You can totally master Computer Science with a 1 in INT (or X Ass with 1 CHA, or Perception with 1 Awareness, or Knife-fighting with 1 Coordination, etc.), but Surgeons need to be brainiacs (and it's not a problem if they're incredibly clumsy)! 

 

I'm guessing that choosing Highpool will rule out the medical jNPC.  Hopefully that lady in the cage will turn out to be decent. 

Edited September 23, 2014 by Enoch

[HoonDing]

Is this like Fallout Tactics?

[Gromnir]

Is the INT threshold for Surgeon still in the game?  I see it on the wiki, but a lot of the stuff there is legacy info from the beta.  And, as far as I can recall, the in-game tool-tip didn't mention it at all. 

 

 

that's old skoole, baby!

 

we got no idea if that feature is still in the game. we won't know til we manage to reach at least post level 30 material, and that is what makes wasteland 2 fun, right?  regardless, the developers did raise rose's int to 10. did developers raise rose's brain wattage to make sure that surgeon skill would be fully expandable with the odd surgeon skill ceiling for intelligence? equally plausible is inxile raised intelligence of the med npc because you need a 10 int to fully develop the med skills to a meaningful level. maybe the developers, to alleviate boredom, had office hamster races to set joinable npc abilities and skills.

 

 

hamster #10 won when the rodents were running for rose's intelligence? makes as much sense as some wasteland 2 choices.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Enoch]

Out-of-nowhere thought: 

 

inXile really missed an opportunity by not naming their Barter skill "Cheap Ass." 

 

 

(Edit:  Also, by not eliminating the Barter skill entirely.  Seriously-- does anybody ever feel any temptation to invest points in an "it gets you better prices" skill?)

Edited September 23, 2014 by Enoch

[Keyrock]

Seriously-- does anybody ever feel any temptation to invest points in an "it gets you better prices" skill?)

Yes, I do.

[Volourn]

I kinda  do but they should really raise the % bonus you get per point. It should be pointed outed if you run with 7 rangers and give them 4 points each on the skill that's 28%. You could 70% discount total. I think it should be raised to 5% per point and then they can raise prices so groups who focus on barter  would actually beenfit from it. Maybe even get a boost to it by chr/int.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

"I kinda do but they should really raise the % bonus you get per point. It should be pointed outed if you run with 7 rangers and give them 4 points each on the skill that's 28%. You could 70% discount total. I think it should be raised to 5% per point and then they can raise prices so groups who focus on barter would actually beenfit from it. Maybe even get a boost to it by chr/int."

 

No.