"But it was made for us."

[Shadenuat]

 

trying to derail the boob talk?

I don't care for boobs talk since they fixed Cadegund's art and are applying moderation to their style everywhere. Bitching about it more would be petty.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Shadenuat

[teknoman2]

 

 

trying to derail the boob talk?

I don't care for boobs talk since they fixed Cadegund's art and are applying moderation to their style everywhere. Bitching about it more would be petty.

 

it is... it's just that there are people here who just cant get over a bulge on a flexible armor

Edited May 2, 2014 by teknoman2

[Sarex]

It seems not for some people.

 

Apparently some gamers need visual aids like breasts to distinguish between their male and female party members, because as some people have said, 'I'd prefer to be able to distinguish my characters'.

 

The curser over the character is not enough to identify the party member, the skills they have when you do select that character, their clothes, their voices when you click on them. No, we need erect boobies to protrude out.

 

What is even more funny is seeing you people crusade on the forum, because boobs are showing under a armor. I don't know what is more pathetic, the "ban bossy" campaign or the ban boobs in games campaign.

[Mihura]

 

It seems not for some people.

 

Apparently some gamers need visual aids like breasts to distinguish between their male and female party members, because as some people have said, 'I'd prefer to be able to distinguish my characters'.

 

The curser over the character is not enough to identify the party member, the skills they have when you do select that character, their clothes, their voices when you click on them. No, we need erect boobies to protrude out.

 

What is even more funny is seeing you people crusade on the forum, because boobs are showing under a armor. I don't know what is more pathetic, the "ban bossy" campaign or the ban boobs in games campaign.

 

 

It is as pathetic as talking about combat or any other thing in the game, how lucky of you to have the luxury of ignoring this... ah wait.

 

As for me I dislike profoundly any boob armor that makes no sense. In clothes is other story, you can have as much cleavage as you want, if the male version does the same thing.

 

This is a thing that always plague the games I played, as a women knowing very well how boobs work it is almost hilarious and awful how people just get a pass at it because, "omg if I do not see boobs how call a tell it is a women?." this is problematic even on gender complexity. It is more like if you can tell from the armor, there is probably something wrong and they are not boobs at all.

 

I really hope they change the armor to something less obvious and more practical. 

Edited May 2, 2014 by Mihura

[Sarex]

It is as pathetic as talking about combat or any other thing in the game, how lucky of you to have the luxury of ignoring this... ah wait.

As for me I dislike profoundly any boob armor that make no sense. In clothes is other story, you can have as much cleavage as you want, if the male version does the same thing.

 

This is a thing that always plague the games I played, as a women knowing very well how boobs work it is almost hilarious and awful how people just get a pass at it because, "omg if I do not see boobs how call a tell it is a women?." this is problematic even on gender complexity. It is more like if you can tell from the armor, there is probably something wrong and they are not boobs at all.

 

I really hope they change the armor to something less obvious and more practical. 

 

I am a man and I know very well how boobs work, your point being? Yeah it doesn't work like that, but then what does in games? So, we are going to draw the line at boobs, because some flatchested girls are having a hissy fit about big boobs showing and their white knights are running to their rescue? Should we also exclude girls from fighter classes, because there is no way that a normal woman can carry plate male, a large ass sword, whatever is in her inventory and still hope to do any damage, because we already capped her strength attribute and it's much lower then that of the male counterpart. We should also put a penalty on crafting, because women didn't do that stuff in the old ages, they don't even do it that much in modern times. But no, we draw the line at boobs, because that is obviously going to far.

 

Well here is the thing, games are not made just for you, nor should they be.

[Jarmo]

The truth is somewhere.

 

If the devs say they're going to make an "old IE game like experience, but modernized",

it's not fair to assume you're going to get every single thing you liked. I hated the IE game inventory system.

someone loved it. We're not both going to get what we want.

 

But if the devs then deliver a goofy side-scrolling platform jumper, I'm going to be way disappointed and rightfully so.

The same if they don't deliver anything, instead spending it all on naughty ladies and new coke.

 

It's appropriate to expect something to the tune of the major lines the devs promised,

but by my view, they also have the right to change stuff they promised if they think the game will be better for it.

[Nonek]

One is not particularly perturbed by this as the mechanics and content of the game are far more important in my personal view, however I believe that the emphasis on the figure is a valid method of identification if one is catering to maximum accessibility. Personally I agree with Mr Protagonist that such differences are not really needed for the players party, with differently coloured clothing, types of armour and helms, and more importantly highlighting of the portrait and character when moused over, the identification of the characters seems fairly simple without the emphasised figures.

 

However I cannot see the outrage and vitriol heaped upon this trivial addition of a few pixels, there are far more important matters to discuss, hopefully without the venom. As it stands the armour is far more sensible than most we have seen, in other games where combat is fairly much non stop female characters wear shirts, and then there are always Superheroines who run around in their underwear. In comparison Poe seems eminently sensible.

[Mihura]

 

It is as pathetic as talking about combat or any other thing in the game, how lucky of you to have the luxury of ignoring this... ah wait.

As for me I dislike profoundly any boob armor that make no sense. In clothes is other story, you can have as much cleavage as you want, if the male version does the same thing.

 

This is a thing that always plague the games I played, as a women knowing very well how boobs work it is almost hilarious and awful how people just get a pass at it because, "omg if I do not see boobs how call a tell it is a women?." this is problematic even on gender complexity. It is more like if you can tell from the armor, there is probably something wrong and they are not boobs at all.

 

I really hope they change the armor to something less obvious and more practical. 

 

I am a man and I know very well how boobs work, your point being? Yeah it doesn't work like that, but then what does in games? So, we are going to draw the line at boobs, because some flatchested girls are having a hissy fit about big boobs showing and their white knights are running to their rescue? Should we also exclude girls from fighter classes, because there is no way that a normal woman can carry plate male, a large ass sword, whatever is in her inventory and still hope to do any damage, because we already capped her strength attribute and it's much lower then that of the male counterpart. We should also put a penalty on crafting, because women didn't do that stuff in the old ages, they don't even do it that much in modern times. But no, we draw the line at boobs, because that is obviously going to far.

 

Well here is the thing, games are not made just for you, nor should they be.

 

 

You know so much that you even say that flat chest and a bigger chest works differently on armor. Sorry to disappoint but is basically the same, unless of course there is no space in the upper body armor, like a kinda of catsuit.

 

What about the guys that want to have a large codpiece? are they gonna to be ignore too. How to I know a character is a male if they have a small codpiece? They are probably all women with flat chest! 

[Sarex]

You know so much that you even say that flat chest and a bigger chest works differently on armor. Sorry to disappoint but is basically the same, unless of course there is no space in the upper body armor, like a kinda of catsuit.

What about the guys that want to have a large codpiece? are they gonna to be ignore too. How to I know a character is a male if they have a small codpiece? They are probably all women with flat chest! 

 

Never said that, read what I wrote again.

 

As I said before, bring on the big codpieces, fair is fair.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

It seems not for some people.

 

Apparently some gamers need visual aids like breasts to distinguish between their male and female party members, because as some people have said, 'I'd prefer to be able to distinguish my characters'.

 

The curser over the character is not enough to identify the party member, the skills they have when you do select that character, their clothes, their voices when you click on them. No, we need erect boobies to protrude out.

 

 

What is even more funny is seeing you people crusade on the forum, because boobs are showing under a armor. I don't know what is more pathetic, the "ban bossy" campaign or the ban boobs in games campaign.

What is the funniest bit is that the logical conclusion of the argument would be to only have one character model, regardless of race or anything else, because differing character models are visual aides. Who needs "visual aides" when you have cursors?

[Sarex]

What is the funniest bit is that the logical conclusion of the argument would be to only have one character model, regardless of race or anything else, because differing character models are visual aides. Who needs "visual aides" when you have cursors?

 

If that was the discussion I would have remained quiet. Either way I'm fine with both visual directions, couldn't care less to be honest, but I can't stand the, "oh noes it's not realistic" and "oh noes that's sexist".

[Amentep]

To be honest, all that I care about is that it's internally consistent.

 

I wouldn't want to be forced to have my female fighter wearing "Red Sonja mail" if no other female character in the game ever had the same kind of mail. And ideally it'd be nice if the lore supported it (like skimpy outfits only offer protection if they're magical items) and you could have your choice of skimpy/not skimpy lore appropriate outfits.

 

If they want subtle indications of gender (even Cadegun, as I recall has a slightly different accommodating top that indicated her bosom even though it wasn't boob-plate) I'm okay with that. I understand why people like visual indicators of their characters like color tinting and indications of form regardless if it always made sense (I remember how many players wanted an option to hide helmets in BGII so they could "see" their character even though at the size the figure displayed there was little to see.)

Edited May 2, 2014 by Amentep

[neo6874]

You know so much that you even say that flat chest and a bigger chest works differently on armor. Sorry to disappoint but is basically the same, unless of course there is no space in the upper body armor, like a kinda of catsuit.

There's not "a lot" of space.

 

In general, for wearing plate armor, one would have the following layers on their torse:

 

1. Loose, yet close fitting undergarments (think typical "Hanes" T-Shirts)

2. Padding (think a thick sweater)

3. Breastplate. Fits relatively tight to the below layer, though is a bit "loose" to accommodate an internal load-bearing harness. Essentially, a similar fit to an overcoat if you're not wearing a suit beneath.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

 

It seems not for some people.

 

Apparently some gamers need visual aids like breasts to distinguish between their male and female party members, because as some people have said, 'I'd prefer to be able to distinguish my characters'.

 

The curser over the character is not enough to identify the party member, the skills they have when you do select that character, their clothes, their voices when you click on them. No, we need erect boobies to protrude out.

 

What is even more funny is seeing you people crusade on the forum, because boobs are showing under a armor. I don't know what is more pathetic, the "ban bossy" campaign or the ban boobs in games campaign.

 

 

No. Nice strawman. I'm not against boobs. Hell, look at the Diablo 3 thread and you'll see me posting there and the game has some of the most ridiculous armour in a video game. I love playing the game, I like the ridiculously large weapons, the stupidly out of place armour that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Because everything in Diablo 3 is exaggerated, taken to the extreme and it fits in the game. The large weapons, the boob armour, everything.

 

What doesn't fit in this game is the boob armour, considering Obsidian changed Cadegund's armour. if Obsidian didn't change it and said, this is the style we're going for. Exaggerated armour types. No problem. I find it odd that Obsidian changes it originally and then goes back to boob armour.

 

It doesn't surprise me that it's the males who are the ones asking to keep boob armour in this game. Even though we have a thread in this forum called "Armour and weapon designs - a plea' and in it's 5th part now. And I note the hypocrisy of posters in this thread who are all for boob armour or who don't care either way but then were against it in the Amour and Weapons designs thread.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Hiro Protagonist II

[Sarex]

No. Nice strawman. I'm not against boobs. Hell, look at the Diablo 3 thread and you'll see me posting there and the game has some of the most ridiculous armour in a video game. I love playing the game, I like the ridiculously large weapons, the stupidly out of place armour that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Because everything in Diablo 3 is exaggerated, taken to the extreme and it fits in the game. The large weapons, the boob armour, everything.

 

What doesn't fit in this game is the boob armour, considering Obsidian changed Cadegund's armour. if Obsidian didn't change it and said, this is the style we're going for. Exaggerated armour types. No problem. I find it odd that Obsidian changes it originally and then goes back to boob armour.

 

It doesn't surprise me that it's the males who are the ones asking to keep boob armour in this game. Even though we have a thread in this forum called "Armour and weapon designs - a plea' and in it's 5th part now. And I note the hypocrisy of posters in this thread who are all for boob armour or who don't care either way but then were against it in the Amour and Weapons designs thread.

 

I think this forum should have in it's header the definition of a straw man argument, because people still haven't learned what a strawman is...

 

Go to the Armor and weapon design threads and look up my post, then come back and we can talk.

 

I don't think that boobs on armors is going to be the death of PoE, especially considering how they made it look. It's neither over the top or glaringly obvious. Ffs, the first time I looked at it I missed that the scale male had boobs.

[Fatback]

@mihura I'm not sure the basis of your convictions are wether there from a gendrification or sexist or if it's an immersion thing. But that little picture next to your name is basically doing the same thing.

 

Heavy use of make up, lips pursed ready for a kiss like a helpless college freshmen, very high and defined cheek bones. That picture your using is basically the same thing as putting little bumps on the models of women wearing armor.

 

Im going to call the goose and gander rule here.

[Hassat Hunter]

Links for the item degradation in particular.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/64048-update-58-crafting-with-tim-cain/?p=1348405

 

I actually liked the idea of item degradation, but most commentors did not.

 

Go play Divinity: Original Sin. It has it.

Going around the various forums it seems universally hated, so it may not make the final cut... so get in while you can!

[Hiro Protagonist II]

 

I think this forum should have in it's header the definition of a straw man argument, because people still haven't learned what a strawman is...

 

Go to the Armor and weapon design threads and look up my post, then come back and we can talk.

 

I don't think that boobs on armors is going to be the death of PoE, especially considering how they made it look. It's neither over the top or glaringly obvious. Ffs, the first time I looked at it I missed that the scale male had boobs.

 

 

So why quote me, say stuff like 'seeing you people' which suggests me and then go on about a 'crusade' and continue with something irrelevant like the 'ban bossy campaign'? Which if you went into that thread in WoT, you would know I was vehemently opposed to that campaign.

 

Why quote me and then say, 'or the ban boobs in games campaign.'? Where have I been a proponent of banning boobs in games?  You also go on with posters 'white knighting'? Really and who might that be? Tell us who the white knights are. Are you calling me a white knight? Seriously? That's laughable.

 

I was also merely stating there's a bit of hypocrisy in this thread with certain posters all for boob armour and yet those posters had a different view in another thread for more realistic armour. Can you not see the hypocrisy when a poster is for realistic armour and derides boob armour in one thread (weeks, months or years ago), and then when this latest update comes out, comes into this thread and is okay with it and doesn't see a big deal. And seemingly forgets what they posted in the other thread?

 

Also, who is saying boobs on armour is going to be the death of PoE? Why even bring that up? What has that got to do with anything? You're reaching by saying things like "I don't think that boobs on armors is going to be the death of PoE" considering no one said anything of the sort. And you didn't notice it when looking at the picture but you do notice it when playing an IE type game when the characters are less than an inch tall on the screen. Yep, need that boob armour so I can work out who is the female and who is the male. "to be able to distinguish my characters" as another poster said. Need those boob pixels! 

 

My original point was I found some of the excuses by posters laughable. If you're going to make excuses, then at least make them believable. Or just be honest and say 'I'm all for boob armour in PoE' right from the start.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Hiro Protagonist II

[neo6874]

bah, stupid edit timeout.

 

 

So finally found the "boob scale" that has people up in arms, and really it looks like a limitation of computer modeling/texturing. I mean, take a "babydoll" t-shirt, and screenprint a scale pattern on it, and you'll get the same odd contours. (i.e. the "model" of the shirt happens to have proper "female" curves, but they used "male" texture, so there are the odd contours to the texture)

 

Scale mail itself is simply metal (or boiled leather) "plates" riveted onto a leather (or cloth) shirt. So, in reality, you would need to make scale mail for men and women slightly different, simply because women are more curvy than men. Those curves would translate into places where the scale spreads open (bust, hips) and leaves gaps between the scales ... and well, I personally wouldn't want "soft" spots in my armour over my heart/lungs/kidneys.

Edited May 2, 2014 by neo6874

[anameforobsidian]

Why does everyone expect each other to read their posts in other threads?  And then not link to it?  It's not like we're great authors cranking out masterpieces by the day, nor are our works particularly worthy of analysis.

 

You can see a subtle irony in aname's post "Dragon Age 2 is a turd of a game."  By the conventional standards a turd of a game would be a very bad game.  However, in his post "I love this ****," the author implies that they have coprophiliac tendencies.  So the author invites the reader to explore their public private dichotomy when consuming interactive media by careful juxtaposition of the two ideas.

Edited May 2, 2014 by anameforobsidian

[rjshae]

 

Links for the item degradation in particular.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/64048-update-58-crafting-with-tim-cain/?p=1348405

 

I actually liked the idea of item degradation, but most commentors did not.

 

Go play Divinity: Original Sin. It has it.

Going around the various forums it seems universally hated, so it may not make the final cut... so get in while you can!

 

I think it makes more sense for a game with one one or two controlled characters. It may not scale well, becoming tedious with six party members. That being said, I liked the idea of a very simple weapon wear implementation. But a tiny but loud minority managed to shout it down.

[ravenshrike]

 but the armour IS functional ridiculous and it is ridiculous to accommodate a female figure.  is insulting that we would give scale a pass where plate were subject of derision.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Unless the boobscale is more exaggerated than I think it is, not having seen the image in question, it wouldn't introduce a structural defect to the scale. Just be slightly more complicated to construct. Whereas the boobplate would have seriously impacted the structural integrity of the armor.

[Sarex]

So why quote me, say stuff like 'seeing you people' which suggests me and then go on about a 'crusade' and continue with something irrelevant like the 'ban bossy campaign'? Which if you went into that thread in WoT, you would know I was vehemently opposed to that campaign.

 

Why quote me and then say, 'or the ban boobs in games campaign.'? Where have I been a proponent of banning boobs in games?  You also go on with posters 'white knighting'? Really and who might that be? Tell us who the white knights are. Are you calling me a white knight? Seriously? That's laughable.

 

I was also merely stating there's a bit of hypocrisy in this thread with certain posters all for boob armour and yet those posters had a different view in another thread for more realistic armour. Can you not see the hypocrisy when a poster is for realistic armour and derides boob armour in one thread (weeks, months or years ago), and then when this latest update comes out, comes into this thread and is okay with it and doesn't see a big deal. And seemingly forgets what they posted in the other thread?

 

Also, who is saying boobs on armour is going to be the death of PoE? Why even bring that up? What has that got to do with anything? You're reaching by saying things like "I don't think that boobs on armors is going to be the death of PoE" considering no one said anything of the sort. My original point was I found some of the excuses by posters laughable. If you're going to make excuses, then at least make them believable. Or just be honest and say 'I'm all for boob armour in PoE' right from the start.

 

I was speaking generally to the whole crowd, your quote was just conveniently placed as the last one in the "we don't need no boob armor" argument. As for the rest, I didn't even quote you there, I was replying to another persons post. It's laughable that you are getting so worked up about boob armor in PoE.

 

As for the whole death of PoE thing, look up Hyperbole. This whole argument is so laughable and insignificant to the game that there is no point for this much outrage and vitriol, but when you derail most of the PoE side of the forum in that direction to the point where you can't miss it, well you should expect even those who don't care about it to say something.

[Gromnir]

To be honest, all that I care about is that it's internally consistent.

 

I wouldn't want to be forced to have my female fighter wearing "Red Sonja mail" if no other female character in the game ever had the same kind of mail. And ideally it'd be nice if the lore supported it (like skimpy outfits only offer protection if they're magical items) and you could have your choice of skimpy/not skimpy lore appropriate outfits.

 

If they want subtle indications of gender (even Cadegun, as I recall has a slightly different accommodating top that indicated her bosom even though it wasn't boob-plate) I'm okay with that. I understand why people like visual indicators of their characters like color tinting and indications of form regardless if it always made sense (I remember how many players wanted an option to hide helmets in BGII so they could "see" their character even though at the size the figure displayed there was little to see.)

there were considerable nerd rage regarding the implausible plate armour for women. such armour were "ridiculous," "sexist," and "demeaning." so, considering fact that the current scale male is no more plausible, am not seeing how community reaction is so different... other than conditioning. the same arguments being presented to allow scale, such as the desire to makes female avatars discernible at the given sizes of the actual in-game models, were no less true for the plate. no, the scale is not cut odd so that there is a hole in the bosom. we can't see exposed thigh or bellybutton. that weren't the case with the plate neither. 

 

now, we get that some folks genuine dont understand how armour works... or perhaps how b00bs work. read a description or see a picture o' scale at some wiki site and suddenly newly created experts is concluding that swollen scale Is plausible. *shrug* am not sure how to fix this issue. the fact that folks dont see a problem with scale that fits same as cheerleader sweaters is amusing on a certain level. am suspecting that part o' the problem is conditioning. relative to the way in which fantasy female armours is typically presented in art and games, somehow the scale doesn't strike folks as egregious... but plate were.

 

regardless, plate were nixed, but obsidian turns around and does the Exact Same Thing with scale. 

 

*shrug*

 

personally, we don't mind if women in heavy armours looks indistinguishable from men. put women in space suits or hazmat garb, or even the typical fireman's coat, and chances are you can't tell man from woman til somebody starts walking... and even then you gotta look with a discerning eye. to Gromnir there is nothing shocking or strange 'bout women being relative indistinguishable from men when wearing particular garb. in point o' fact, that is what we expect. it seems that other folks has been conditioned by games to expect the opposite. am s'posing there is nothing wrong with such conditioning and the seeming pervasiveness of such conditioning.  what we don't get is how such conditioning is selective... and seeming mind-numbing. 

 

folks who see nothing wrong with plate and scale? fine. is not our preference, but this is a fantasy game and there is all kinda ridiculousness. to draw line of reason arbitrarily at sweater bunny armours would be silly. the thing is, we don't see how line can be drawn so easily Between plate and scale. it doesn't make any sense.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Mannock]

 

personally, we don't mind if women in heavy armours looks indistinguishable from men. put women in space suits or hazmat garb, or even the typical fireman's coat, and chances are you can't tell man from woman til somebody starts walking... and even then you gotta look with a discerning eye. to Gromnir there is nothing shocking or strange 'bout women being relative indistinguishable from men when wearing particular garb. in point o' fact, that is what we expect. it seems that other folks has been conditioned by games to expect the opposite. am s'posing there is nothing wrong with such conditioning and the seeming pervasiveness of such conditioning.  what we don't get is how such conditioning is selective... and seeming mind-numbing. 

 

folks who see nothing wrong with plate and scale? fine. is not our preference, but this is a fantasy game and there is all kinda ridiculousness. to draw line of reason arbitrarily at sweater bunny armours would be silly. the thing is, we don't see how line can be drawn so easily Between plate and scale. it doesn't make any sense.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

I like your reasoning. It's quite sound. There is basically no reason to make plate and scale different.

 

On the other hand, I find that Obsidian has kept the different types of armors on a reasonable level so far (compared to other fantasy games from the past). So of all the things to nit pick at, this one wouldn't be at the top of my list. But I don't blame Gromnir from having a go at it.

 

 

Fleet of foot, and all that.