The $4.0m Stretch Goal - Enhancing the Whole Game

[Stun]

 

Also, There's nothing inherent in a "what if" argument that makes it undefeatable.

 

In fact, what if I told you that people often defeat such arguments on a daily basis but don't even realize it?

[Fatback]

But what if they do realize it

[Falkon Swiftblade]

basically the way it works from 3.5M to 4M is they divvy out man ours towards that much $. If memory serves there was 15 people working on the game before they got help from the rest of the guys at Obsidian that were working on other projects that are now helping on this one. So maybe they have 20-25 people working on it now. That $ just gets allocated in the same way your job gets an extra 4 hours a week to pay overtime for example. So basically it gives them an extra few months to polish the game. Remember the game was due out in April originally, so these extra months until Winter, (I think it'll be out ~Nov 18 personally based upon several factors that have been stated by devs and their holiday calendar on their main site.

[Wonderboy2402]

Just more polish into features and content.

[cornishr]

It means they had a larger budget to spend making the game better.

 

Are they really expected to account for whether it was the last half a million or the first half a million went towards adding some extra spells or improving the Trolls? Does it matter?

 

Ps I hope they do improve the Trolls. Divinity Original Sin had quite  a cool looking Troll i thought. I like the Games Workshop Trolls best of all. Project Eternity Troll looks like a  spindly Zombie if i'm honest, i wasn't pleased with him. I've always had a soft spot for Trolls, and there is no way one of these ones could throw a Goblin for a touchdown.

Edited April 13, 2014 by cornishr

[SophosTheWise]

 

• You can never defeat the "what if" argument. 
• Goals that cannot be measured are not good goals and in some cases might not be considered goals at all.

 

 

I think the goal is very measurable. More money offers more time. Enhancing the game - as I understood it - simply means they will use more money and probably distribute it evenly. Therefore 500'000$ more gives x amount of more time to polish everything up

[Mor]

If someone could be kind enough to point me to a link / video which addresses what actually will be enhanced and if it can actually be measured I would appreciate it. Thanks!

I don't think any of the goals can measured e.g. 15 levels mega-dungon can be as big as 15 games or 15 rooms. In this case its about level of polish, the more time you have to work on a piece the better it will get.

 

For example take a look at xenonauts work tracker, Polish is about similar tweaks and unless you are on the team you aren't going to be able to track it, so you'll have to trust the good ol' formula i.e. more time = more polish = more quality.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Mor

[Gromnir]

the $4 million stretch goal is nothing more than an admission that they were ill-prepared and did not anticipate the need for a $4 million stretch goal.

 

hypothetical conversation:

 

"four million? are you kidding me? i was crossing my fingers that we would reach the one million mark. what do we offer them now?"

 

"how about pets? like a dog or something."

 

"i prefer cats. meow."

 

"justin, shuttup."

 

"how about laser weapons? we already have firearms, so why not do a 'barrier peaks' homage and throw in ray guns at $4 mil?"

 

"ray guns? really? somebody gag justin until we are finished."

 

"well, what is your great idea, smart guy."

 

...

 

"tell them that we will make a better game."

 

"what? for a stretch goal? what does that even mean, 'make a better game'?"

 

"it doesn't mean anything, that is why it should work as a final stretch goal."

 

"huh?"

 

etc.

 

HA! Good Fun! 

[Lephys]

^ I'm not sure it' accurate to label stretch goals as "offers." It's simply their way of informing you of what changes they will make to the development itinerary should funding allow it.

 

Thus, since they hit that last goal, they've allocated a fair share of extra man hours and resources to pretty much every aspect of the game.

 

Again, not as exciting as previous stretch goals? I'll give you that. But it's hardly meaningless. I've already pointed it out, but it's no more meaningless than even a very specific stretch goal. If they had said "At 4 million, we'll add in a floating island!", how do you even know they didn't already have a floating island in the design?

 

The last stretch goal basically told people "Here's what value more funding would be, at this point." Instead of "there are a bunch of very specific things we'd like to add to the game, but can't really do without more money," they reached the "there's just plenty of stuff that's already in the game that we'd love to spend more time and effort on, and it'd take about $500,000 to hit all of it."

 

It's just what he name implies: a goal. "We'd like, ideally, to get $500,000 more in funding."

[Gromnir]

"offer" is exact word we were looking for... obsidian offers to do X if fans contribute Y additional dollars. is nothing mysterious about it, particularly when one looks at the previous stretch goals. it would appear, based on the vague nature o' the final goal that obsidian simply ran outta gas-- they didn't plan ahead for a $4 mil stretch goal, but they sure as heck weren't gonna turn away free money. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[gkathellar]

The mention of "live instrumentation" seems to cover it, though, since that is a Thing You Pay People To Do.

 

So, the promise is, in essence: "at $4M, we guarantee to Pay People to do Additional Things, which we might not have been willing to shell it out for previously."

 

That seems fairly simple.

[DaxD]

More cats please.

[rjshae]

Beard technology. Beards, bears, and beer. Plus gold-plated cod pieces.

[Lephys]

it would appear, based on the vague nature o' the final goal that obsidian simply ran outta gas-- they didn't plan ahead for a $4 mil stretch goal, but they sure as heck weren't gonna turn away free money. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

I'm not going to say that it's somehow evident that they were totally planning that stretch goal from the beginning. But, it's not just "not turning down free money." The whole thing is free money. Before there were even any stretch goals, there's the minimum funding goal. That covers all the things in their basic game design. The 4-mil stretch goal is no less vague than the initial project funding goal. What is being spent on what, exactly?

 

If you're running a fundraiser, and it's got a set duration, you don't just stop 3 days before it's over and say "It's fine, guys. We're good." You're creating a whole game from nothing. It's not like you can't put more money to good use.

 

I just don't understand the negative connotation being placed upon the whole "they just whipped a stretch goal out of their arses that doesn't really mean anything" argument. As if improvements across the board are fictional, and they're obviously going to pocket all the money and buy themselves new Ferrari's simply because the stretch goal isn't some specific/"measurable" thing that's going to be added to the game.

 

Just imagine the added scrutiny they can expect, now, when someone finds a system or character/quest story lacking, or that all the creatures only use the same 3 combat animations throughout the entire game and/or aren't even smooth/polished. "We gave you another huge chunk of money specifically to make improvements to these things!".

 

Beard technology. Beards, bears, and beer.

Yes! Tress FX on the beards... AND the bears! Maybe not the beer, though. Hmm... fuzzy beer... Froth FX, maybe? That could go on the bears, too (RABIES!).

Edited April 17, 2014 by Lephys

[Gromnir]

...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ect-kgxBb4M

 

little kids can do this, but llephys can't?

 

okie dokie.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Lephys]

Sadly, I cannot access that video for the time being, so I'm not sure what it is I allegedly cannot do.

[Amentep]

Its a video of the first "one of these things is not like the others" song & sketch from Sesame Street.

[Fatback]

What if that 500k went to cocaine to keep the people working for days on end. That's were I think it went. Josh looks like he likes to get down.

[rjshae]

What if that 500k went to cocaine caffeine to keep the people working for days on end. That's were I think it went. Josh looks like he likes to get down.

 

Fixed it for you. High grade caffeine extracted from the finest columbian coffee beans. Delivered via sterile IV drips, all tended to constantly by an alert but sexually ambiguous NP named Bertra, and restocked nightly using an repurposed assault vehicle driven by a team of obsessed gamer nerds.

[Lephys]

Its a video of the first "one of these things is not like the others" song & sketch from Sesame Street.

Ahh. Apparently encouraging someone to broaden their perspective means that I lack the ability to differentiate between distinct things. I'll get that checked out, stat.

[Gromnir]

 

Its a video of the first "one of these things is not like the others" song & sketch from Sesame Street.

Ahh. Apparently encouraging someone to broaden their perspective means that I lack the ability to differentiate between distinct things. I'll get that checked out, stat.

 

you got roles reversed. you cannot see difference 'tween final stretch goal and the other offerings. Gromnir, and the kids who watch sesame street, can tell the difference 'tween letters and numbers. perhaps it would be best to try and broaden your perspective, 'cause regardless of fact that obsidian calls all of 'em stretch goals, it does not make 'em all the same.  look beyond the label.

 

 

added the other  video 'cause it tickles us.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Lephys]

I can point out that raccoons and humans both have skeletons made of bone, and both have lungs and hearts and such. Doesn't mean I don't see a difference between the two.

 

Honestly, I just think it's you who can't seem to see the similarity. "At this dollar amount, we'll add in trees," and "at this dollar amount, we'll improve the whole game" are no different, in terms of telling at-a-glance which one's meaningless. How many trees will they really add with that money? If they put 2 trees in the game, they've added "trees." Or, what if they already had trees in the game, and just said they'd only add them if we reached that funding goal? You have no way of knowing.

 

Yet, just because we can't measure the exact boundaries of general improvements to the entire game somehow means they're obviously just making crap up to get more money.

 

That is a baseless assumption.

 

Was the goal vague? Yes. They could've provided little snippets about all of the major systems that would be improved, with such things like "There were only going to be about 15 weapon types, but with this goal met, we'll be planning on 20-plus types," etc. Not arguing with you there. That's the difference between the goals. Not "this one means nothing, and the others are all super meaningful and definitely not BS."

[rjshae]

A stretch goal can be defined as, "that cannot be achieved by incremental or small improvements but require extending oneself to the limit to be actualized". As such, I don't think that "improving the entire game" can be considered a stretch goal. They're not pushing themselves to a limit in some manner; they're just executing what they are going to be doing anyway. I think this is why there's a question here: they're not really pushing to a limit if they can't measure what they're striving to achieve.

 

No matter, it's an argument over a nuance.

[Pipyui]

Why does the goal necessarily have to mean we've been cheated or otherwise directly lied to?

 

I don't know, the way I see it, it's like we hired some dude to build us a fence.  "I can build a fence with 5 dollars, but every dollar more means I can make the fence just a little better."  So you give the man 5+ dollars.  "At 10 dollars, we can paint your fence too!"  So you give him 10+ dollars.  "And at 15 dollars, we'll install a weapons array to deter children and invasive lawn gnomes!"  He has 15+ dollars.  "Finally, at 20 dollars, we can build you a better fence!"

 

Hasn't it already been determined that all extra money went into making the fence better?  It's not like the '+' in X+ went towards whiskey and hookers after all.  Every dollar above a stretch goal was intended to build a better fence - the stretchgoal was redundant.

 

Back to Pillars, I will concede that perhaps Obsidian had budgeted some particular (and that's the key word here) polish items in the $500,000 goal difference, but if so, I feel they would have mentioned in the goal.  Saying "polish the game and make it better" sounds exactly like "every dollar more means we can make a better fence game," which had already been established from the getgo.  My long-winded point is, that stretchgoal or not that money was supposed to go towards polishing the game.

 

 

My sentiments are that Obsidian knew (or at least thought they knew ) how much they could chew, and elected to bite off just that.  They couldn't confidently add significant promises past the $3.5 mil goal and maintain a deadline.  But they couldn't just say "stretchgoals over" either, of course.  And thus we got goal $4.0 mil.  I'm not bitter about it - it was a good business decision - but they didn't - couldn't - promise more content, so they just reaffirmed what we already knew: more money = better game.

[Fatback]

I bet the 500k went to hiring witty midges to run messages from office to office instead of using email.