Dragon Age: Inquisition

[Volourn]

"A race of BISEXUAL aliens whose boobs aged like wine."

 

FIXED.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Orogun01, on 13 Apr 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

Crazy should be its own alignment.

I thought that was Chaotic Evil.

[NOK222]

We really don't need to worry about bioware toning down the looks of women. This is the company that gave us the Asari. A race of lesbian aliens whose boobs aged like wine.

 

Now having traps appear in DA, that is a very real and present danger. Good luck Bruce!

 

There's a already a trap in DA. 

 

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Maevaris_Tilani

[Drowsy Emperor]

Sigh, with every passing year Bioware is becoming more and more a caricature of what it once was.

 

Yo, Bioware, the sheep from the Arcanum brothel needs a home too!

 

 (if adopted, 546% chance to be a party member in DA4)

Edited April 14, 2014 by Drowsy Emperor

[alanschu]

One of the argument used to justify how video game violence doesn't translate into real world violence is that people have the ability to tell one from the other. Did we lose that capacity in the last decade? So why should objectifying be an issue since we know that it is not real?

Because human beings do a better job of displaying that they don't let violent media make them violent, while they don't seem to do as well with not taking ideas and imagery and disassociating them. I also feel that violence is better socialized against in other ways.

 

On a semi-related note; it seems to me that you have a different idea of what feminism is than what is actually happening.

I don't know how you can say feminism doesn't think men are rapists and believe in rape culture without a massive cognitive dissonance. Its a bit concerning because I though you capable of critical thinking.

Also, there is a lot of quotes from leading feminists explicitly saying that men are rapists.

 

Because you don't understand the terms. Rape culture is NOT "all men are rapists." Rape culture is a term to describe a culture in which prevalent attitudes and practices normalize, excuse, tolerate, and even condone rape. This is from the very first line in the wikipedia article. The second sentence is this: "Examples of behaviors commonly associated with rape culture include victim blaming, sexual objectification, and trivializing rape."

 

For instance, someone suggesting "rape victims should just not make a big deal out of it because it gives power to the rapist" is an example of victim blaming, as well as rape trivialization. IIRC, this is what you actually said to me. It's not up to you, or me, or anyone else to tell someone how they should or should not deal with an assault like that. So yes, I consider a statement like that to be one that contributes to rape culture. No, I do not consider you a rapist.

 

Some extra reading from a place like here. One thing they point out is how rape culture is a culture that feels rape is inevitable. Think about some people getting upset because what a woman was wearing and where she was walking was focused on during a rape, and how she shouldn't be there and certainly not wearing that? How many people go "well yeah, of course she's taking a risk." Soon it becomes her fault that she was raped.

 

 

As for other examples of rape culture: Look up Stubenville. Some high school boys raped a girl. Adults obstruct justice to protect the boys and the school's football program, and there's a healthy degree of focus on how this is tragic for the boys because they had promising football careers and how they may not even get into college now if a conviction is made.

 

There's another case of Raeteah Parsons from Nova Scotia. Very similar to Stubenville in that boys raped a girl and took videos/photos, and the girl was the one ostracized for it by her peers (she tried NOT coming out with an accusation to start too). She was bullied out of school and harassed by other boys that wanted to have sex with her. The family tried moving, but the bullying eventually caught up with them again thanks to social media... and the girl was driven to suicide.

 

Saratoga High School had a similar thing, which some consider worse than Stubenville, where again guys took advantage of a drunk woman, took dozens of pictures of her being abused, and would share it with the student body. There's an article here in Rolling Stone. Harvard's Crimson posted an editorial from a Havard Student (kudos to the Crimson doing this... I consider that a positive thing).

 

Until 1983, in Canada it wasn't possible for a husband to rape his wife. That doesn't mean that all husbands raped their wife. It did mean that society's codified laws meant that it was not something seen as possible (which is absurd as far as I'm concerned. If a spouse isn't interested in having sex, forcing that spouse, man or woman, same sex or otherwise, it's absolutely rape). That's rape culture. (rectifying this by altering the laws is an example of eroding that culture, which is something that I support)

 

But there's still issues: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/how-canadas-sex-assault-laws-violate-rape-victims/article14705289/?page=all

 

* Most judges now attend courses to become more sensitive, but still hand out sentences, Prof. Boyle of UBC says, that suggest victims invited trouble by how they acted or dressed while out on a date, or with those closest to them.

 

* For example, in October, 2009, the Ontario Court of Appeal imposed a 10-year sentence on a man convicted of assaulting a woman who was working a night shift at a convenience store.

 

The same month, it ruled on a man who had tied his wife to a bed, covered her mouth with duct tape, punched her in the face, cut off her underwear with a knife and threatening to slash her vagina before trying to rape her. Only on appeal was his sentencing increased to 21 months – and even then the sentence was conditional, so the man, by this time out of jail, didn’t have to go back.

 

The man fitting the "typical" image of a rapist: 10 years. The atypical rapist... 21 month conditional sentence. I don't believe this is endemic to only Canada, however.

 

Here's a cartoonist's take on the discussions regarding sexual harassment

 

 

I was going to go into your misunderstanding of the term patriarchy too, but I've been writing this for a while and have to go soon. I did point out a study in a different thread of the male and female researchers BOTH critiquing an equivalently qualified woman candidate in a study (only the name was changed) more aggressively than a man. There's *some* reason for this type of assessment, and the idea that society (somehow) has us believe that women are less capable at the physical sciences is one possible assessment. This is the idea of "the patriarchy," which is more of a nebulous, abstract concept of institutionalized ways to reinforce a specific set of gender roles. It's important to note that men can be affected by the patriarchy too, in that they are ostracized if not displaying a suitably masculine image. Men are biased against in custody battles. They are biased against in adoption. I don't know this for certain, but I certainly perceive that they are more likely to be ostracized for being homosexual. (despite Volo's declarations, feminism has nothing to do with acting feminine - although feminism is more of an umbrella that has a variety of perspectives now).

 

 

I find it troubling that you call out someone for "having a different idea of what feminism is than what is actuallly happening" because it doesn't seem like you actually understand the terms being used. But I'm not sure if it's the other people that suffer from cognitive dissonance on this topic. How many people on this forum point out that the extreme people are just that, extreme? How many people on this forum actually espouse those extreme views? Yet in a thread that I was taking part in, not long after I let it be known that I was a feminist, you post some hateful diatribe of what feminism is. I think you're mistaken about what feminism is. I think there may be some bias in your sampling if you think that feminism is as extreme that you think it is.

 

 

 

So putting this into context of male game designers doing what they do and what they are interesting in

I actually enjoyed reading a comment from a developer on a RPS talk regarding Manveer's talk at GDC. In response to all the people crying out against compromising artistic integrity, he shared how he knows all too well how much that's affected, as character designs he makes are white washed and altered to appeal to specific demographics. Artistic integrity indeed! But fans don't typically see that sort of stuff so it doesn't happen I guess.

 

Perhaps they should stop compromising their artistic vision based on what the marketing department tells them. As a lead on a AAA game (Sudeki) who was forced to make a black character whiter, for “sales in target demographics (Japan)” I can promise you, the words “compromised artistic vision” ring loud and clear across the whole industry. If it’s made for profit, the artistic vision has already been compromised. Fact.

(In response to someone asking why designers should compromise their artistic vision to appease sexual minorities).

 

 

Super Smash Bros had an example of the designer literally NOT doing what was concepted, at all yet this is what was delivered. Artistic integrity!

 

As for bull**** trivialization and fundamental misunderstandings:

So now Johnny has to sacrifice his integrity to make everyone feel good about themselves because the best progress is made when all the Johnnys adapt themselves to the world around them. Or so Sally thought, how silly of her. Jack agrees with her, hoping that it will finally make her see that he is the one that she will give her first kiss to.

Magnificently put!

 

 

It's not obligated to, and in Bioware's games too often comes off as forced.

I think for a lot of people, it's mere existence comes across as forced. In ME3, Steve made a casual reference to his husband that passed on. My reaction: "WHOA! He's gay!" I make that reaction because, well, it's not something I'm used to see. But I'll remember that... Makes a casual reference to his wife passing on? Do I even blink an eye? (I actually love Shepard's response to that line, given that it unphases Shepard in the slightest).

 

 

But damn, he had no spine on issues. Take a f*cking stand already.

I'll take this as preemptive support of this post. Thanks!

Edited April 14, 2014 by alanschu

[BruceVC]

 

One of the argument used to justify how video game violence doesn't translate into real world violence is that people have the ability to tell one from the other. Did we lose that capacity in the last decade? So why should objectifying be an issue since we know that it is not real?

Because human beings do a better job of displaying that they don't let violent media make them violent, while they don't seem to do as well with not taking ideas and imagery and disassociating them. I also feel that violence is better socialized against in other ways.

 

On a semi-related note; it seems to me that you have a different idea of what feminism is than what is actually happening.

I don't know how you can say feminism doesn't think men are rapists and believe in rape culture without a massive cognitive dissonance. Its a bit concerning because I though you capable of critical thinking.

Also, there is a lot of quotes from leading feminists explicitly saying that men are rapists.

 

Because you don't understand the terms. Rape culture is NOT "all men are rapists." Rape culture is a term to describe a culture in which prevalent attitudes and practices normalize, excuse, tolerate, and even condone rape. This is from the very first line in the wikipedia article. The second sentence is this: "Examples of behaviors commonly associated with rape culture include victim blaming, sexual objectification, and trivializing rape."

 

For instance, someone suggesting "rape victims should just not make a big deal out of it because it gives power to the rapist" is an example of victim blaming, as well as rape trivialization. IIRC, this is what you actually said to me. It's not up to you, or me, or anyone else to tell someone how they should or should not deal with an assault like that. So yes, I consider a statement like that to be one that contributes to rape culture. No, I do not consider you a rapist.

 

Some extra reading from a place like here. One thing they point out is how rape culture is a culture that feels rape is inevitable. Think about some people getting upset because what a woman was wearing and where she was walking was focused on during a rape, and how she shouldn't be there and certainly not wearing that? How many people go "well yeah, of course she's taking a risk." Soon it becomes her fault that she was raped.

 

 

As for other examples of rape culture: Look up Stubenville. Some high school boys raped a girl. Adults obstruct justice to protect the boys and the school's football program, and there's a healthy degree of focus on how this is tragic for the boys because they had promising football careers and how they may not even get into college now if a conviction is made.

 

There's another case of Raeteah Parsons from Nova Scotia. Very similar to Stubenville in that boys raped a girl and took videos/photos, and the girl was the one ostracized for it by her peers (she tried NOT coming out with an accusation to start too). She was bullied out of school and harassed by other boys that wanted to have sex with her. The family tried moving, but the bullying eventually caught up with them again thanks to social media... and the girl was driven to suicide.

 

Saratoga High School had a similar thing, which some consider worse than Stubenville, where again guys took advantage of a drunk woman, took dozens of pictures of her being abused, and would share it with the student body. There's an article here in Rolling Stone. Harvard's Crimson posted an editorial from a Havard Student (kudos to the Crimson doing this... I consider that a positive thing).

 

Until 1983, in Canada it wasn't possible for a husband to rape his wife. That doesn't mean that all husbands raped their wife. It did mean that society's codified laws meant that it was not something seen as possible (which is absurd as far as I'm concerned. If a spouse isn't interested in having sex, forcing that spouse, man or woman, same sex or otherwise, it's absolutely rape). That's rape culture. (rectifying this by altering the laws is an example of eroding that culture, which is something that I support)

 

But there's still issues: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/how-canadas-sex-assault-laws-violate-rape-victims/article14705289/?page=all

 

* Most judges now attend courses to become more sensitive, but still hand out sentences, Prof. Boyle of UBC says, that suggest victims invited trouble by how they acted or dressed while out on a date, or with those closest to them.

 

* For example, in October, 2009, the Ontario Court of Appeal imposed a 10-year sentence on a man convicted of assaulting a woman who was working a night shift at a convenience store.

 

The same month, it ruled on a man who had tied his wife to a bed, covered her mouth with duct tape, punched her in the face, cut off her underwear with a knife and threatening to slash her vagina before trying to rape her. Only on appeal was his sentencing increased to 21 months – and even then the sentence was conditional, so the man, by this time out of jail, didn’t have to go back.

 

The man fitting the "typical" image of a rapist: 10 years. The atypical rapist... 21 month conditional sentence. I don't believe this is endemic to only Canada, however.

 

Here's a cartoonist's take on the discussions regarding sexual harassment

 

 

I was going to go into your misunderstanding of the term patriarchy too, but I've been writing this for a while and have to go soon. I did point out a study in a different thread of the male and female researchers BOTH critiquing an equivalently qualified woman candidate in a study (only the name was changed) more aggressively than a man. There's *some* reason for this type of assessment, and the idea that society (somehow) has us believe that women are less capable at the physical sciences is one possible assessment. This is the idea of "the patriarchy," which is more of a nebulous, abstract concept of institutionalized ways to reinforce a specific set of gender roles. It's important to note that men can be affected by the patriarchy too, in that they are ostracized if not displaying a suitably masculine image. Men are biased against in custody battles. They are biased against in adoption. I don't know this for certain, but I certainly perceive that they are more likely to be ostracized for being homosexual. (despite Volo's declarations, feminism has nothing to do with acting feminine - although feminism is more of an umbrella that has a variety of perspectives now).

 

 

I find it troubling that you call out someone for "having a different idea of what feminism is than what is actuallly happening" because it doesn't seem like you actually understand the terms being used. But I'm not sure if it's the other people that suffer from cognitive dissonance on this topic. How many people on this forum point out that the extreme people are just that, extreme? How many people on this forum actually espouse those extreme views? Yet in a thread that I was taking part in, not long after I let it be known that I was a feminist, you post some hateful diatribe of what feminism is. I think you're mistaken about what feminism is. I think there may be some bias in your sampling if you think that feminism is as extreme that you think it is.

 

 

 

So putting this into context of male game designers doing what they do and what they are interesting in

I actually enjoyed reading a comment from a developer on a RPS talk regarding Manveer's talk at GDC. In response to all the people crying out against compromising artistic integrity, he shared how he knows all too well how much that's affected, as character designs he makes are white washed and altered to appeal to specific demographics. Artistic integrity indeed! But fans don't typically see that sort of stuff so it doesn't happen I guess.

 

Perhaps they should stop compromising their artistic vision based on what the marketing department tells them. As a lead on a AAA game (Sudeki) who was forced to make a black character whiter, for “sales in target demographics (Japan)” I can promise you, the words “compromised artistic vision” ring loud and clear across the whole industry. If it’s made for profit, the artistic vision has already been compromised. Fact.

(In response to someone asking why designers should compromise their artistic vision to appease sexual minorities).

 

 

Super Smash Bros had an example of the designer literally NOT doing what was concepted, at all yet this is what was delivered. Artistic integrity!

 

As for bull**** trivialization and fundamental misunderstandings:

So now Johnny has to sacrifice his integrity to make everyone feel good about themselves because the best progress is made when all the Johnnys adapt themselves to the world around them. Or so Sally thought, how silly of her. Jack agrees with her, hoping that it will finally make her see that he is the one that she will give her first kiss to.

Magnificently put!

 

 

It's not obligated to, and in Bioware's games too often comes off as forced.

I think for a lot of people, it's mere existence comes across as forced. In ME3, Steve made a casual reference to his husband that passed on. My reaction: "WHOA! He's gay!" I make that reaction because, well, it's not something I'm used to see. But I'll remember that... Makes a casual reference to his wife passing on? Do I even blink an eye? (I actually love Shepard's response to that line, given that it unphases Shepard in the slightest).

 

 

But damn, he had no spine on issues. Take a f*cking stand already.

I'll take this as preemptive support of this post. Thanks!

 

 

Hi Alan, welcome back Yaaaaaaaaaaaay

 

Good to see you posting again, where have you been? I know you said were taking a break but have just been on BSN?

[Oerwinde]

 

 

It's not obligated to, and in Bioware's games too often comes off as forced.

I think for a lot of people, it's mere existence comes across as forced. In ME3, Steve made a casual reference to his husband that passed on. My reaction: "WHOA! He's gay!" I make that reaction because, well, it's not something I'm used to see. But I'll remember that... Makes a casual reference to his wife passing on? Do I even blink an eye? (I actually love Shepard's response to that line, given that it unphases Shepard in the slightest).

 

 

Its not such a casual reference, its his entire storyline, but I see your point of its mere existence coming off as forced. If the story had been about his wife dying, it would have been "oh, poor guy" instead the reaction was "why are they forcing all this gay stuff?"

 

At the same time, last I checked, the % of the population that is openly gay is still around 6%, so for a lot of people its not something they have a lot of exposure to, so its an entirely natural reaction to be a little weirded out by it because thats how humans react to things outside the norm.

[Nepenthe]

Didn't I see this exact same discussion with the exact same posts by the exact same people two weeks ago. I've becoming ****ing precognisant.

 

Sigh, with every passing year Bioware is becoming more and more a caricature of what it once was.

 

Yo, Bioware, the sheep from the Arcanum brothel needs a home too!

 

 (if adopted, 546% chance to be a party member in DA4)

 

Or is it just you, who have become a caricature of what you once were, and you are viewing the world of Bioware through a lense of caricatureness?

[Drowsy Emperor]

Didn't I see this exact same discussion with the exact same posts by the exact same people two weeks ago. I've becoming ****ing precognisant.

 

Sigh, with every passing year Bioware is becoming more and more a caricature of what it once was.

 

Yo, Bioware, the sheep from the Arcanum brothel needs a home too!

 

 (if adopted, 546% chance to be a party member in DA4)

 

Or is it just you, who have become a caricature of what you once were, and you are viewing the world of Bioware through a lense of caricatureness?

 

Are you so thick that you haven't realized my harping on Bioware is a sort of inside joke at this point?

[BruceVC]

Didn't I see this exact same discussion with the exact same posts by the exact same people two weeks ago. I've becoming ****ing precognisant.

 

No Nep, I have never had this discussion before..ever 

 

You must be suffering from sort of cognisant hallucination, it must be stress related. Come to South Africa for a holiday, you  can stay with me for free

[Nepenthe]

 

Didn't I see this exact same discussion with the exact same posts by the exact same people two weeks ago. I've becoming ****ing precognisant.

 

Sigh, with every passing year Bioware is becoming more and more a caricature of what it once was.

 

Yo, Bioware, the sheep from the Arcanum brothel needs a home too!

 

 (if adopted, 546% chance to be a party member in DA4)

 

Or is it just you, who have become a caricature of what you once were, and you are viewing the world of Bioware through a lense of caricatureness?

 

Are you so thick that you haven't realized my harping on Bioware is a sort of inside joke at this point?

 

 

Right, not supposed to reply to inside joke posts. Looks like you didn't get that memo either, mr. smartypants.

[Nepenthe]

 

Didn't I see this exact same discussion with the exact same posts by the exact same people two weeks ago. I've becoming ****ing precognisant.

 

No Nep, I have never had this discussion before..ever 

 

You must be suffering from sort of cognisant hallucination, it must be stress related. Come to South Africa for a holiday, you  can stay with me for free

 

 

Can't do it, Bruce. Whenever I meet South African ladies, I wind up having sex with them. It's really awkward when you're just trying to chill and sip on a mojito, my friend.

[Monte Carlo]

Wow, just checked out the Dragon Age wiki. It's like an enormous encyclopaedia of Fail.

[BruceVC]

Wow, just checked out the Dragon Age wiki. It's like an enormous encyclopaedia of Fail.

 

Why is it a fail in your opinion?

[NOK222]

 

 

Super Smash Bros had an example of the designer literally NOT doing what was concepted, at all yet this is what was delivered. Artistic integrity!

 

To be fair, I hate those damn high heels on her too. 

[Meshugger]

Alan, settle down a bit. No one here is pro-rape or suggesting that any victim of rape was asking for it.

 

What you are describing could be a good scenario in DA:I. Our hero the adventurer has to protect a victim of rape under dubious circumstances (who said what to whom and did what when and where) from a village of bigoted peasants. You could even make it more interesting is that the girl having deliberately broken several taboos before the rape (slept with married husbands and bragged about it) and the rape itself was a not a result of mob rule, but rather a highly controlled ritual with special robes, chanting and such to give it a sinister vibe. Heck, have the victim being partly brainwashed into believing that the rape was justified according to their local code of conduct. Finally, if our hero defends her and tries to help her escape it will result in a massacre of the whole village, unless the hero has a reaaaaally high wisdom/diplomacy-stat, and having her alone without any previous friends or relatives.

[Gfted1]

Don't leave me hanging! What happens next? Sexytime with the adventurer?

[tajerio]

Alan, settle down a bit. No one here is pro-rape or suggesting that any victim of rape was asking for it.

 

Do you have a Ph.D. in missing the point?

[Meshugger]

 

Alan, settle down a bit. No one here is pro-rape or suggesting that any victim of rape was asking for it.

 

Do you have a Ph.D. in missing the point?

 

 

Let him answer himself. Unless you want to tell what you really feel.

[Meshugger]

Don't leave me hanging! What happens next? Sexytime with the adventurer?

 

As soon as i have the position of Create Lead at Obsidian i will let you know

[BruceVC]

Alan, settle down a bit. No one here is pro-rape or suggesting that any victim of rape was asking for it.

 

What you are describing could be a good scenario in DA:I. Our hero the adventurer has to protect a victim of rape under dubious circumstances (who said what to whom and did what when and where) from a village of bigoted peasants. You could even make it more interesting is that the girl having deliberately broken several taboos before the rape (slept with married husbands and bragged about it) and the rape itself was a not a result of mob rule, but rather a highly controlled ritual with special robes, chanting and such to give it a sinister vibe. Heck, have the victim being partly brainwashed into believing that the rape was justified according to their local code of conduct. Finally, if our hero defends her and tries to help her escape it will result in a massacre of the whole village, unless the hero has a reaaaaally high wisdom/diplomacy-stat, and having her alone without any previous friends or relatives.

 

I don't know but your post just seems to me some indirect way to get some kind of rape example into an RPG and have a way to justify it. Like when you say "that the girl having deliberately broken several taboos before the rape"

 

I know RPG can contain mature topics but any example in any game where the developers try to position the rape as " the victim may have deserved it" I would find highly offensive and unacceptable. And the reality is no gaming studio would position rape in such a way

[Malcador]

No Nep, I have never had this discussion before..ever 

 

You must be suffering from sort of cognisant hallucination, it must be stress related. Come to South Africa for a holiday, you  can stay with me for free

If you do, mind the rapists in SA.

[Orogun01]

Welcome back, we were beginning to miss you.

 

One of the argument used to justify how video game violence doesn't translate into real world violence is that people have the ability to tell one from the other. Did we lose that capacity in the last decade? So why should objectifying be an issue since we know that it is not real?

Because human beings do a better job of displaying that they don't let violent media make them violent, while they don't seem to do as well with not taking ideas and imagery and disassociating them. I also feel that violence is better socialized against in other ways.
 

On a semi-related note; it seems to me that you have a different idea of what feminism is than what is actually happening.
I don't know how you can say feminism doesn't think men are rapists and believe in rape culture without a massive cognitive dissonance. Its a bit concerning because I though you capable of critical thinking.
Also, there is a lot of quotes from leading feminists explicitly saying that men are rapists.

Because you don't understand the terms. Rape culture is NOT "all men are rapists." Rape culture is a term to describe a culture in which prevalent attitudes and practices normalize, excuse, tolerate, and even condone rape. This is from the very first line in the wikipedia article. The second sentence is this: "Examples of behaviors commonly associated with rape culture include victim blaming, sexual objectification, and trivializing rape."

For instance, someone suggesting "rape victims should just not make a big deal out of it because it gives power to the rapist" is an example of victim blaming, as well as rape trivialization. IIRC, this is what you actually said to me. It's not up to you, or me, or anyone else to tell someone how they should or should not deal with an assault like that. So yes, I consider a statement like that to be one that contributes to rape culture. No, I do not consider you a rapist.

Some extra reading from a place like here. One thing they point out is how rape culture is a culture that feels rape is inevitable. Think about some people getting upset because what a woman was wearing and where she was walking was focused on during a rape, and how she shouldn't be there and certainly not wearing that? How many people go "well yeah, of course she's taking a risk." Soon it becomes her fault that she was raped.


As for other examples of rape culture: Look up Stubenville. Some high school boys raped a girl. Adults obstruct justice to protect the boys and the school's football program, and there's a healthy degree of focus on how this is tragic for the boys because they had promising football careers and how they may not even get into college now if a conviction is made.

There's another case of Raeteah Parsons from Nova Scotia. Very similar to Stubenville in that boys raped a girl and took videos/photos, and the girl was the one ostracized for it by her peers (she tried NOT coming out with an accusation to start too). She was bullied out of school and harassed by other boys that wanted to have sex with her. The family tried moving, but the bullying eventually caught up with them again thanks to social media... and the girl was driven to suicide.

Saratoga High School had a similar thing, which some consider worse than Stubenville, where again guys took advantage of a drunk woman, took dozens of pictures of her being abused, and would share it with the student body. There's an article here in Rolling Stone. Harvard's Crimson posted an editorial from a Havard Student (kudos to the Crimson doing this... I consider that a positive thing).

Until 1983, in Canada it wasn't possible for a husband to rape his wife. That doesn't mean that all husbands raped their wife. It did mean that society's codified laws meant that it was not something seen as possible (which is absurd as far as I'm concerned. If a spouse isn't interested in having sex, forcing that spouse, man or woman, same sex or otherwise, it's absolutely rape). That's rape culture. (rectifying this by altering the laws is an example of eroding that culture, which is something that I support)

But there's still issues: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/how-canadas-sex-assault-laws-violate-rape-victims/article14705289/?page=all

* Most judges now attend courses to become more sensitive, but still hand out sentences, Prof. Boyle of UBC says, that suggest victims invited trouble by how they acted or dressed while out on a date, or with those closest to them.

* For example, in October, 2009, the Ontario Court of Appeal imposed a 10-year sentence on a man convicted of assaulting a woman who was working a night shift at a convenience store.

The same month, it ruled on a man who had tied his wife to a bed, covered her mouth with duct tape, punched her in the face, cut off her underwear with a knife and threatening to slash her vagina before trying to rape her. Only on appeal was his sentencing increased to 21 months – and even then the sentence was conditional, so the man, by this time out of jail, didn’t have to go back.

The man fitting the "typical" image of a rapist: 10 years. The atypical rapist... 21 month conditional sentence. I don't believe this is endemic to only Canada, however.

Here's a cartoonist's take on the discussions regarding sexual harassment


I was going to go into your misunderstanding of the term patriarchy too, but I've been writing this for a while and have to go soon. I did point out a study in a different thread of the male and female researchers BOTH critiquing an equivalently qualified woman candidate in a study (only the name was changed) more aggressively than a man. There's *some* reason for this type of assessment, and the idea that society (somehow) has us believe that women are less capable at the physical sciences is one possible assessment. This is the idea of "the patriarchy," which is more of a nebulous, abstract concept of institutionalized ways to reinforce a specific set of gender roles. It's important to note that men can be affected by the patriarchy too, in that they are ostracized if not displaying a suitably masculine image. Men are biased against in custody battles. They are biased against in adoption. I don't know this for certain, but I certainly perceive that they are more likely to be ostracized for being homosexual. (despite Volo's declarations, feminism has nothing to do with acting feminine - although feminism is more of an umbrella that has a variety of perspectives now).


I find it troubling that you call out someone for "having a different idea of what feminism is than what is actuallly happening" because it doesn't seem like you actually understand the terms being used. But I'm not sure if it's the other people that suffer from cognitive dissonance on this topic. How many people on this forum point out that the extreme people are just that, extreme? How many people on this forum actually espouse those extreme views? Yet in a thread that I was taking part in, not long after I let it be known that I was a feminist, you post some hateful diatribe of what feminism is. I think you're mistaken about what feminism is. I think there may be some bias in your sampling if you think that feminism is as extreme that you think it is.

 

This is probably one of the best post I've seen from an opposing argument.

There is however the matter of how the hell does real life rape translate into Ms. Saarkessian and her ilk making their bones by claiming that sexualization in media causes rape. It really seems to me that feminism has become like Catholicism in a regard were the actions of a few have soiled the image for the rest. Still, I don't understand how more "inclusive" games will help prevent rape.

[BruceVC]

Welcome back, we were beginning to miss you.

This is probably one of the best post I've seen from an opposing argument.

 

There is however the matter of how the hell does real life rape translate into Ms. Saarkessian and her ilk making their bones by claiming that sexualization in media causes rape. It really seems to me that feminism has become like Catholicism in a regard were the actions of a few have soiled the image for the rest. Still, I don't understand how more "inclusive" games will help prevent rape.

 

Orog, there are people in the feminist movement who are extremists IMO and I can understand your concern, but they don't represent what the feminist movement is suppose to stand for. It does much more good than bad

[Orogun01]

 

Welcome back, we were beginning to miss you.

This is probably one of the best post I've seen from an opposing argument.

 

There is however the matter of how the hell does real life rape translate into Ms. Saarkessian and her ilk making their bones by claiming that sexualization in media causes rape. It really seems to me that feminism has become like Catholicism in a regard were the actions of a few have soiled the image for the rest. Still, I don't understand how more "inclusive" games will help prevent rape.

 

Orog, there are people in the feminist movement who are extremists IMO and I can understand your concern, but they don't represent what the feminist movement is suppose to stand for. It does much more good than bad

 

Yet I would daresay that most of the knowledge people have comes from those extremists, who due to sensationalizing by the media, trivialization by opponents, or extreme opinions have cemented the public's view about feminism.