Generation Wuss

[Monte Carlo]

My son is at school and they aren't allowed to fight. Fighting is a massive no-no.

 

School is feminised. As Tyler Durden famously said, "How much can you possibly know about yourself if you've never been in a fight?"

 

Instead, the boys are starting to act like girls. They form cliques. They make catty comments. They exclude each other.

 

It makes me angry. Boys are buzzing capsules of hormones, they need to climb trees, fall out of them and occasionally give each other a punch on the nose. I really worry about that, about how because women run the education system it's suddenly 'better.'

 

I like having made my own thread to have a middle-aged grumble in. Baaaaaah.

[HoonDing]

I can't help being wuss, my grandfather comes from France.

[Gfted1]

~snip~

Google "game of tag banned" and weep. This is exactly the mentality that is churning out wusses like a Chinese factory. Smh.

[Azdeus]

My son is at school and they aren't allowed to fight. Fighting is a massive no-no.

 

School is feminised. As Tyler Durden famously said, "How much can you possibly know about yourself if you've never been in a fight?"

 

Instead, the boys are starting to act like girls. They form cliques. They make catty comments. They exclude each other.

 

Good, actually, considering how poor physical shape people are in generally, most people can't stand up to a proper beating. And if you want people to fight, there are clubs for that.

 

The last part though; Since when was this new? That has always been the case, even if the insults has become more creative rather than brutal and plain, it's still the same **** that people has always done; Formed groupings and insulted eachother.

 

Also, full disclosure; Born in '85, so I'm part of Generation Wuss.

Edited February 18, 2014 by Azdeus

[Enoch]

Instead, the boys are starting to act like girls. They form cliques. They make catty comments. They exclude each other.

 

I have never perceived cliquiness or humorous criticism as particularly feminine.  That's just human nature. 

 

(But maybe I'm tainted because I was born in 1979?) 

[213374U]

1. Kids are way too pampered. Meaning that they are not allowed to fail and learn from their shortcomings, neither are they allowed to experience any danger while playing. Falling from a tree and hurting yourself? Not in this kindergarden. This is direct consequence of people having less kids, which in turn is a symptom of any rich society.

 

2. There's no real counter-culture. Music is not rebellious, there are no dangerous books and no artists that genuinely inspire fear in parents and idolization in youth.

 

The result is a passive youth that never needed to defend their ideas, physically or mentally. 

 

*This is of course in the western world.

 

At the risk of turning Monte's beer-inspired, mid-life crisis thread into one of my pretentious faux-intellectual debates, I'm going to suggest that it is in fact the opposite. What is (or was) considered counter-culture has actually won the battle vs actual culture and subtly but surely replaced it. Democratization and the tearing down of barriers between cultured and uncultured, between superior and inferior, between masculine and femenine have resulted in a status quo where conformity with being an object dedicated to feeding the consumerist engine is the only "culture" we have.

 

If, on the other hand, you were simply referring to the availability of non-mainstream and contrarian intellectual produce... well. Just dig deeper, because it's there.

 

 

 

Character-building stuff is required, Nonek, I agree. Now I'm too old for conscription, I think a war is in order. A large one.

 

Considering the suicide rates among vets, you can count me out. Besides, Monte, old boy, advances in drone tech mean that in ten, twenty years wars will be fought 100% from a desk in 9-to-5 shifts. I have nothing but good things to say about universal compulsory military service, however, the more I consider it. Among other things because it would make people more conscious and less willing to support capricious wars.

[Monte Carlo]

 

 

 

Also, full disclosure; Born in '85, so I'm part of Generation Wuss.

 

I was in basic training in '85, son. *strikes manly pose*

 

[HoonDing]

Also, full disclosure; Born in '85, so I'm part of Generation Wuss.

 

I was in basic training in '85, son. *strikes manly pose*

[Monte Carlo]

Swap that out for a kebab and you're just about right.

[Tale]

I always find this idea interesting.

 

On one hand, people who engage in offensive behavior see themselves as somehow stronger. On the other hand, they can be seen as people who lack in self-control, which is unquestionably a weakness.

 

And by that same token, people who self-censor can be seen as lacking assertiveness. But being kind and considering others in how you behave is not a weakness.

 

All in all, we should endeavor to be like Vin Diesel or Dwayne Johnson. I hear they're both terrifically nice guys, but you'd be foolish to mistake them for wusses. I'd have a hard time imagine them spurting out passive aggressive insults on message boards. Or even just the regular kind of aggressive commentary.

[Amentep]

 

Instead, the boys are starting to act like girls. They form cliques. They make catty comments. They exclude each other.

 

I have never perceived cliquiness or humorous criticism as particularly feminine.  That's just human nature. 

 

(But maybe I'm tainted because I was born in 1979?)

 

I suspect the distinction that Monte Carlo is looking for is that the male cliques of the past would pants theose they excluded as they came into school, tie them to a flagpole in their tighty-whiteys, then hop on a Harley and drive off into the sunset while flipping a bird at anyone who tried to stop them, possibly with a few kicks for good measure instead of making catty comments.

 

But yeah, groups are an inherent part of human nature be it family or youth gang or anti-establishmentarians who prove their individuality by doing the same exact thing as everyone else in the group.

[Orogun01]

I always find this idea interesting.

 

On one hand, people who engage in offensive behavior see themselves as somehow stronger. On the other hand, they can be seen as people who lack in self-control, which is unquestionably a weakness.

 

And by that same token, people who self-censor can be seen as lacking assertiveness. But being kind and considering others in how you behave is not a weakness.

 

All in all, we should endeavor to be like Vin Diesel or Dwayne Johnson. I hear they're both terrifically nice guys, but you'd be foolish to mistake them for wusses. I'd have a hard time imagine them spurting out passive aggressive insults on message boards. Or even just the regular kind of aggressive commentary.

I think in the cases of "proven" men like your examples there is no need for chest pumping as they know themselves, potential and limitations alike and have nothing to prove.

 

People experience things either introverted or extroverted, where the latter values action and sensation more than rationale. So they tend to act first and then think but they gain a lot more world experience and as a result have a better defined character.

 

The modern world(at least in privileged countries ) has sheltered their youth for fear of their safety, they have been neglected outlets for their impulses which has led to some strange behavior and a skewed view of the world. So you have a good amount of people that don't know themselves, with defense mechanics that they have developed while in a repressive institution, who are now being exposed to the world. Suffice it to say that they don't know how to cope.

[Tale]

The modern world(at least in privileged countries ) has sheltered their youth for fear of their safety, they have been neglected outlets for their impulses which has led to some strange behavior and a skewed view of the world. So you have a good amount of people that don't know themselves, with defense mechanics that they have developed while in a repressive institution, who are now being exposed to the world. Suffice it to say that they don't know how to cope.

There's a popular quote attribute to Socrates through Plato.

 

“Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.”

The attribution is certainly false. In some brief research, the earliest citation I can find is 1953. But I hope we can agree it is not a sentiment that started there, but is likely one that has gone on for much of history. And that in this constant issue of children experiencing the world wrongly according to their elders, it is a surprise that humankind has not yet gone extinct.

 

Why, I shudder to image what those kids who grew up on rock and roll which made them think the world would be nothing but sex and parties will turn out like. Surely the disaster of their adulthood will be any moment now.

[Azdeus]

I was in basic training in '85, son. *strikes manly pose*

 

Oh, yeah? Well, I was rejected from conscription in '03! So, there!

[AGX-17]

... or Generation 'Y' or people born in the mid-late 1980s.

 

Bret Easton Ellis calls them Generation Wuss. He gets labelled a troll, a contrarian and a hater.

 

This article, by a twentysomething, made me think: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/10644664/Id-rather-be-in-Generation-Wuss-than-a-middle-aged-cliche.html

 

Now I'm not comparing myself to Ellis, and in fact I'm a little bit younger. I am, however, broadly speaking in the same generational grid square. And on this forum I get PMs, brick-bats and reported to moderators quite a lot.

 

Why?

 

Well, if BE-E is right it's because my generation is snarkier, tougher and has a higher sperm count than people born in the eighties. By the way, is anyone hurt by that?

 

I don't necessarily agree, but it's interesting. No it's not, Monte, you arrogant old fart, you cry. No, listen. It's interesting because if Bret is even 15% correct (and I think there is a grain of truth in what he's saying) then perhaps Generation 'Y' is the first bunch of people to be more censorious than it's parents. People my age with kids in their late teens do comment on how dull their kids can be, my brother genuinely wishes his daughter would be a crazy bitch. Instead she's a straight 'a' physics student who drinks rarely and knows lots about art history. Oi vei.

 

And some of the Twentysomethings I work with genuinely think I'm a dinosaur who drinks too much, hates the planet and is a jaded, all-round douche.

 

I might be.

 

OTOH,

 

1. I don't drink too much. I just like beer. A lot. Plus I know dozens of hangover remedies. And yes, guy in a silly hat with a waxed moustache, I will stand you a round because your generation is so bloody poor. Oh, is that a new iPhone?

 

2. I don't want to kill the planet. I just think the science has yet to be settled, most greens are socialists in camouflage and, er, the Chinese and Yanks need to sort their acts out before I lose sleep over it.

 

3. I'm not a jaded douche. I've just been around longer than you and finally worked out the lay of the land. And I think tattoos on your hands and neck are ****ing stupid. And you didn't invent beards.

 

By the way, I still lend these people money now and then because I have more of it than them. I let them eat at my house and empty the fridge. I make phone calls for them with my peers who can help them out with their careers. In short, If I'm not a good guy then I'm not a bad one either.

 

So, community of all ages, is generation 'Y' a bunch of soft, unicorn-riding, wrapped in cotton-wool babies who need to get with the program? Or is Bret Easton Ellis just an overpaid, ageing troll?

 

Over to you.

 

And...

You are making the fallacious assumption/assertion that all people born in the 80s and later are hipsters. If you want to whinge about hipsters, whinge about hipsters.

 

I live in the city of Portland, Oregon, where I'm sure the vast majority of non-locals would make these assumptions about today's youth, but I could direct you to large swathes of the city where one would not want to walk alone at night. There are routine drive-by shootings in the neighborhood I grew up in (and where I still reside,) and as someone who has experience in the legal system on the prosecutorial side, I can tell you with certainty that the amount of drinking and violence among today's youth is quite high if you're not focusing your tunnel-vision on sweater-vest wearing hipsters.

 

That's not even mentioning the soldiers who were sent unilaterally into Iraq. Most of them were "generation Y." I don't think any of these old men whinging about how they're a generation of pussies would have the balls to go into a veterans' hospital and tell a 24 year old soldier crippled by an IED that he's a huge **** who needs to man up like the generation that was too young for Vietnam and too old for Iraq, whose great manliness was forged in the fires of Punk, Hair Metal and Reaganomics.

Edited February 18, 2014 by AGX-17

[Hiro Protagonist]

... or Generation 'Y' or people born in the mid-late 1980s.

 

Bret Easton Ellis calls them Generation Wuss. He gets labelled a troll, a contrarian and a hater.

 

This article, by a twentysomething, made me think: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/10644664/Id-rather-be-in-Generation-Wuss-than-a-middle-aged-cliche.html

 

I spent more time reading and enjoying a lot of the comments to the article than the actual article itself.

[LadyCrimson]

Get off my lawn.

 

That's all I have to say. And it's all every generation has to say, once it becomes the "older generation." It'll happen to you, too.

[Labadal]

 

 

 

Also, full disclosure; Born in '85, so I'm part of Generation Wuss.

 

I was in basic training in '85, son. *strikes manly pose*

 

 

I was also in basic training that year. I learned how to crawl and how to poop properly in my diapers.

[Azdeus]

I was also in basic training that year. I learned how to crawl and how to poop properly in my diapers.

 

 

Complete waste of skillpoints if you ask me, should've put more points into persuasion.

[Labadal]

 

I was also in basic training that year. I learned how to crawl and how to poop properly in my diapers.

 

 

Complete waste of skillpoints if you ask me, should've put more points into persuasion.

 

Oh, don't you worry. I've been told my persuasive skills were superb. I was also born during wartime. Half the hospital was blown away, so my mother had to give birth at home. Oh, the stories I've been told.

[Monte Carlo]

That's not even mentioning the soldiers who were sent unilaterally into Iraq. Most of them were "generation Y." I don't think any of these old men whinging about how they're a generation of pussies would have the balls to go into a veterans' hospital and tell a 24 year old soldier crippled by an IED that he's a huge **** who needs to man up like the generation that was too young for Vietnam and too old for Iraq, whose great manliness was forged in the fires of Punk, Hair Metal and Reaganomics.

 

 

I like your prose, the angry bit about Reaganomics was good. I think you'll find my gratitude to the kids fighting out in hot, sandy places is in this thread. Mind you, I've three friends my age who've served or are serving in said conflicts. The professional 21st century grunt is digging fox-holes well into his or her forties.

 

But man, you really did miss out on the eighties. I got the tail end of it as a twenty-year old and it really rocked.

Edited February 18, 2014 by Monte Carlo

[Azdeus]

But man, you really did miss out on the eighties. I got the tail end of it as a twenty-year old and it really rocked.

 

 

 

Oh, how I lament not getting to have one of those mullets.

[Monte Carlo]

I had a flat-top myself. More Ivan Drago than Vanilla Ice.

 

[Azdeus]

Too bad, it'd have been more fun if you had a mullet, we could've pestered you for pictures! ;D

[Monte Carlo]

Nah, I've got very thick, wavy hair. In fact in r/l I'd make a really good furry. The mullet-grooming schedule would have taken over my life.