The Case for Romance.

[rjshae]

So is romance going to be like turn-based, in that some reprobates keep begging it despite the fact it is not included?

 

It's a turn-based DLC easter egg with a comprehensive disadvantages system and a limited set of achievements. To unlock it, you must first woo the horny water gnome and steal her trout skin pantaloons.

[Lurky]

...Okay, we now have a post that is roughly similar to the infamous analysis of Tali's sweat on the Obsidian forums. I don't know how to feel about that.

 

I mean, NanoPaladin, you spent a large part of your post explaining biological functions. Your post did not need that. We all know that doing stuff in games makes us feel stuff in our bodies because we like fooling our brains and entertainment is basically that. That's basically the argument you said in the "romance is good" part, and using SCIENCE™ to say it did not make it stronger.

 

Seriously, nothing against you, but the OP seemed like a huge rationalization of your own feelings about the goodness of romance in videogames, with a half-arsed section of bad things so that you could tell yourself that you were being neutral on this matter. And you did this in a forum where the regulars are completely burned out on the subject. I am not surprised at the reaction you got.

 

By the way, if you want to talk about hormones, you could have also mentioned them in the part of bad things, too. Some of the hormones linked with love can be very addictive (you did mention that drugs mess with dopamine, which is a reason why drugs are bad), and this can lead to very unhealthy behaviours. Behaviours that are not, in fact, unheard of in videogame communities that deal with romances, if you look at the BSN. You could have examined that, too, and then I may have believed your attempt at honest discussion a little more.

 

I may have come across as rather cranky in this post, but after seeing that we got official confirmation that could finally put this topic to rest, seeing this thread made me die a little inside.

[Karkarov]

Karranthain, made a great post explaining all this to you with Obsidian's explanation. Perhaps you could have read it considering it was two posts below mine. I can understand if you're having problems with comprehension If English isn't your first language. If English is your first language, then I don't know what to say. Maybe you could have someone in real life sit down with you, hold your hand and comfort you as you go through all the points that Karranthain addressed.

And you wonder why I have almost no respect for the people constantly arguing about how romance is bad and the detriment of all good games?  Re read your own post then ask yourself, "Why doesn't he think I am worth responding to?"  Because you aren't.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I obviously am since you responded.

[Sir Chaox]

drugs are bad

 

Mkay.

[PrimeJunta]

Is thing thing still on?

[Monte Carlo]

Just about. The Promancers are the the final phase of denial / hardcore resistance. A few of them are making like Japanese soldiers on remote Pacific atolls, refusing the believe the war is over.

[Karkarov]

Is thing thing still on?

The antimancers or whatever idiot name they have for themselves are still trolling so I guess so.

[Nonek]

Ahhh and now we come to the real question brothers and sisters, what shall we name the august body that has arisen to defend the wise decision Obsidian has taken against the hordes of the depraved Slaaneshi? Nomancer's, Nochancer's, Nonopantsdancer's? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

The Obsidian Order of Twisted Insular Touchy Sods? The acronym is rather troublesome however.

[NanoPaladin]

...Okay, we now have a post that is roughly similar to the infamous analysis of Tali's sweat on the Obsidian forums. I don't know how to feel about that.

 

I mean, NanoPaladin, you spent a large part of your post explaining biological functions. Your post did not need that. We all know that doing stuff in games makes us feel stuff in our bodies because we like fooling our brains and entertainment is basically that. That's basically the argument you said in the "romance is good" part, and using SCIENCE™ to say it did not make it stronger.

 

Seriously, nothing against you, but the OP seemed like a huge rationalization of your own feelings about the goodness of romance in videogames, with a half-arsed section of bad things so that you could tell yourself that you were being neutral on this matter. And you did this in a forum where the regulars are completely burned out on the subject. I am not surprised at the reaction you got.

 

By the way, if you want to talk about hormones, you could have also mentioned them in the part of bad things, too. Some of the hormones linked with love can be very addictive (you did mention that drugs mess with dopamine, which is a reason why drugs are bad), and this can lead to very unhealthy behaviours. Behaviours that are not, in fact, unheard of in videogame communities that deal with romances, if you look at the BSN. You could have examined that, too, and then I may have believed your attempt at honest discussion a little more.

 

I may have come across as rather cranky in this post, but after seeing that we got official confirmation that could finally put this topic to rest, seeing this thread made me die a little inside.

 

I have not seen the Tali Sweat thread actually. At any rate I was discussing those biological points because they do play a large part of why people play video games or really do anything. Sure it might have been a little far to go that much into it but both businesses and game companies will use psychology in some form to develop games. Conscious or not. Not taking human behavior and reactions into account when making a horror game such as Dead Space would be quite different if you did not look into what makes humans fear things. Same thing can be said with romance or thriller games. People just over-reacted to the analysis and took it the wrong way it seems. 

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Lurky is correct. Your OP is half-arsed and slanted towards having romances. Heck, even the thread title shows the bias. Your 'for' argument lists a whole raft of body chemicals and why it's good and you turn to so called science. And yet, your 'against' argument lists no body chemicals at all. No science. Instead your 'against' argument is Obsidian's explanation why they're not putting it in.

 

So let me get this straight. For argument = Science. Against Argument = Science Obsidians reasons. You conveniently avoid using science for the 'against' argument. Why bother using so called science if you're only going to use it with the 'for' argument and not for the 'against' argument? You need to show the against arguments with your science as well.

[rjshae]

 

Is thing thing still on?

The antimancers or whatever idiot name they have for themselves are still trolling so I guess so.

 

Attacking posters rather than their message is trolling, almost by definition.

[drake heath]

Also Science! really isn't important in video games decisions, so saying Science! is against their decision to have no romances is putting Science! up like it's some kind of deity.

 

Like you're saying Science! will smite them for their faithlessness, or something.

[Monte Carlo]

 

Is thing thing still on?

The antimancers or whatever idiot name they have for themselves are still trolling so I guess so.

 

 

IRONY DETECTED MISTER ROBINSON!

[NanoPaladin]

Also Science! really isn't important in video games decisions, so saying Science! is against their decision to have no romances is putting Science! up like it's some kind of deity.

 

Like you're saying Science! will smite them for their faithlessness, or something.

 

Lol saying that is just flat out stupid. 

 

Two words

 

Science - Fiction

Lurky is correct. Your OP is half-arsed and slanted towards having romances. Heck, even the thread title shows the bias. Your 'for' argument lists a whole raft of body chemicals and why it's good and you turn to so called science. And yet, your 'against' argument lists no body chemicals at all. No science. Instead your 'against' argument is Obsidian's explanation why they're not putting it in.

 

So let me get this straight. For argument = Science. Against Argument = Science Obsidians reasons. You conveniently avoid using science for the 'against' argument. Why bother using so called science if you're only going to use it with the 'for' argument and not for the 'against' argument? You need to show the against arguments with your science as well.

 

Against argument = Any Game Devs reasons. 

Edited February 15, 2014 by NanoPaladin

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Am I a don'tgivea****mancer or apatheticancer?

 

And y'all promancers need to get more agressive, tie up and torture Monte by forcing him to watch romantic comedies while listening to a loop of Handsome Devil or something else vile.

[charms]

What a terrible Thread.

[Lurky]

I have not seen the Tali Sweat thread actually. At any rate I was discussing those biological points because they do play a large part of why people play video games or really do anything. Sure it might have been a little far to go that much into it but both businesses and game companies will use psychology in some form to develop games. Conscious or not. Not taking human behavior and reactions into account when making a horror game such as Dead Space would be quite different if you did not look into what makes humans fear things. Same thing can be said with romance or thriller games. People just over-reacted to the analysis and took it the wrong way it seems. 

 

Then behold, because it can be found here. Enjoy your read.

 

You may have noticed that the conclusion of that analysis was to say that Tali's sweat was pleasant and aphrodisiac and just plain better than that of humans. Basically, the post used SCIENCE™ to prove Why Tali Is A Better Waifu Than The Rest, in a context of fans talking and gushing about her character, which is why that post has become infamous and an example of lonely Bioware fans that have crossed the line into creepy obsessiveness. And now you come here and try to use SCIENCE™ to put having romances as a good thing, which is why the comparisons started coming up.

 

Look, I can understand your desire to let it out and write about your feelings about this topic, because as time has shown people have a lot of strong and very different feelings about it. But you have to be mindful about what you're saying and where. You say that people over-reacted to your analysis and took it the wrong way. I say that what happened is because of your analysis itself, as it is faulty and misplaced. It's faulty because it's incomplete and biased, as Hiro Protagonist II pointed out, and i'ts misplaced because you put it in a forum where people just don't want to talk about this topic anymore. That is why you got that reaction. Hopefully it's clearer now.

[Lephys]

Ahhh and now we come to the real question brothers and sisters, what shall we name the august body that has arisen to defend the wise decision Obsidian has taken against the hordes of the depraved Slaaneshi? Nomancer's, Nochancer's, Nonopantsdancer's? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

The Obsidian Order of Twisted Insular Touchy Sods? The acronym is rather troublesome however.

I don't discriminate. I just see unreasonable people, and reasonable people, on whichever side.

 

It's pretty funny when someone gets a reasonable point made against them, and they have to refer to "you promancers" or some such, just to bestow some unreasonable argument upon the immediate poster to which they're replying, just to still have something to argue against.

 

*shrug*. Maybe one day there can be actual exchanges of the perspectives of both sides of something like this, instead of some kind of "which side wins?" battle royale. But, this is the internet... so probably not. 8P

[Hassat Hunter]

It doesn't really matter which of us "wins" anyway.

OE should be possible to distinguish the actual arguments between the trolling, baiting and flaming, and use those, and their own interpretations, discussions and thoughts for the final conclussion.

 

The only troublesome thing would be if threads where so drowned in filler no dev ventures them anymore to find the real ideas and suggestions and talk material in it.

[Auxilius]

 

Also Science! really isn't important in video games decisions, so saying Science! is against their decision to have no romances is putting Science! up like it's some kind of deity.

 

Like you're saying Science! will smite them for their faithlessness, or something.

 

Lol saying that is just flat out stupid. 

 

Two words

 

Science - Fiction

Lurky is correct. Your OP is half-arsed and slanted towards having romances. Heck, even the thread title shows the bias. Your 'for' argument lists a whole raft of body chemicals and why it's good and you turn to so called science. And yet, your 'against' argument lists no body chemicals at all. No science. Instead your 'against' argument is Obsidian's explanation why they're not putting it in.

 

So let me get this straight. For argument = Science. Against Argument = Science Obsidians reasons. You conveniently avoid using science for the 'against' argument. Why bother using so called science if you're only going to use it with the 'for' argument and not for the 'against' argument? You need to show the against arguments with your science as well.

 

Against argument = Any Game Devs reasons. 

 

[Monte Carlo]

It doesn't really matter which of us "wins" anyway.

 

It does because I did ^^

[Stun]

Dopamine: The brain includes several distinct dopamine systems, one of which plays a major role in reward-motivated behavior. Every type of reward that has been studied increases the level of dopamine in the brain, and a variety of addictive drugs, including stimulants such as cocaine, amphetamine, and methamphetamine, act by amplifying the effects of dopamine.

Bah! Don't need an NPC romance for that. Many of us who backed this game, and who have waited years and years for it will be getting a huge Dopamine shot to the aorta the moment we get our hands on the game itself.

 

Which actually is a pretty terrible statement for a developer that just had his major project paid by those devoted fans he is so easily dismissing now.

No, It's a neutral statement. They neither promised nor hinted during the kickstarter that they were going to do Romances. And for those of us who have been following Josh's comments on Mindspring/twitter etc. It was pretty obvious very early on that this game likely wouldn't have them. BTW, only 1 (one) of the IE games had Romances (two if you decide to define the Annah Flirt session as a romance in PS:T) so even citing the IE game name drops as an "inference" doesn't work. Edited February 16, 2014 by Stun

[Hiro Protagonist II]

 

I don't discriminate. I just see unreasonable people, and reasonable people, on whichever side.

 

It's pretty funny when someone gets a reasonable point made against them, and they have to refer to "you promancers" or some such, just to bestow some unreasonable argument upon the immediate poster to which they're replying, just to still have something to argue against.

 

 

Funny how you say you don't discriminate and see unreasonable people, and reasonable people, on whichever side. But then your next sentence is targeting the people who refer to promancers. Your sentence could equally be the same for the people who put up reasonable points against romances and the promancers who bestow some unreasonable argument on them.

[Nonek]

 

Ahhh and now we come to the real question brothers and sisters, what shall we name the august body that has arisen to defend the wise decision Obsidian has taken against the hordes of the depraved Slaaneshi? Nomancer's, Nochancer's, Nonopantsdancer's? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

The Obsidian Order of Twisted Insular Touchy Sods? The acronym is rather troublesome however.

I don't discriminate. I just see unreasonable people, and reasonable people, on whichever side.

 

It's pretty funny when someone gets a reasonable point made against them, and they have to refer to "you promancers" or some such, just to bestow some unreasonable argument upon the immediate poster to which they're replying, just to still have something to argue against.

 

*shrug*. Maybe one day there can be actual exchanges of the perspectives of both sides of something like this, instead of some kind of "which side wins?" battle royale. But, this is the internet... so probably not. 8P

 

 

Lighten up Lephys, nobody can take the bombastic, over the top rhetoric i've been spewing as anything but ridiculous piffle.

 

As i've said in serious mode it's perfectly fine for all of the npc's to find the protagonist unattractive, or take take a little time developing the relationship, rather than just being restricted to one game. There are almost infinite methods of interaction with npc's so the avoidance of romance is hardly a hindrance, indeed it may allow us to form a far more stable relationship than a little pillow talk and a quick tumble.

 

Well that's my thoughts on the subject anyway, others may differ but I think the decision is perfectly valid and in fact a good move by Obsidian, but that said i'm bored of the subject now and can't think of any more bad jokes so I shall retire from the discussion.