why guns in such an epic time

[okey231]

jst wondering y u guys had to put guns in the game.... thought i'd have the usual lord of the rings epic feeling to the game... but the gun kills that somehow

[Abel]

I feel Arcanum is a real deep inspiration for PoE (which is a great thing). Not as much as BGate, but even... The difference is: guns are rare things because bows are often more effectives than these one shoot-then-reload weapons.

 

In my opinion, it's a great idea to put some of them into the game. I hope that playing the game, you'll feel it contributes to give PoE its own vibe.

[Walsingham]

I agree with Abel. Guns have a twofold impact: game mechanics, and style.

 

In terms of game mechanics they would tie into a character type with technical skills, rather than say magic or agility. They let the nerd have power. I expect them to also be slower firing, but more devastating. They thus fill a tactical niche.

 

In terms of style they add an element of breakaway social strength for the nerd characters. You get new types of social power, new military powers, new economics.

 

In my own tabletop games I am introducing firelocks to my next campaign as a way of letting a noble house vie for power. They don't have estates to produce archers, and they don't have the reputation to attarct swordsmen. But they have money, and a penchant for hairshirt discipline. That means they can hire men off the street, and drill them into a formidable fighting force.

[Plutone00]

Think of the sengoku era, which is common theme for many games. Matchlock guns are just starting to spread and majority are still using katanas, spears and bows. At the battle of Nagashino Nobunaga's matchlock corps turned the tide by a annihilating Tokugawa cavalery (which held the reputation of undefeatable), but majority of the battle was still fought was with steel wepons, since the matchlocks were not as reliable yet. There was still plenty of demand for samurai heroism on the field of battle.

 

So as long as they are in moderation, guns do not harm the gameworld, but rather add to it.

 

 

[Walsingham]

Video being better than words:

 

[aluminiumtrioxid]

thought i'd have the usual lord of the rings epic feeling to the game

 

From what I've gathered (spiritual successor to PS:T, among others; main character presumably becomes a so-called "Watcher" in a supernatural event, able to sense souls around him; world has a 'colonial era' feel; one of the core conflicts is whether the study of souls is ethical, or a grave offense against the gods which will lead to divine retribution) it really won't have a "lord of the rings epic" feel, thank God.

[rjshae]

Just think of guns as an alchemist's fire sticks. As to whether this takes the game out of the high fantasy realm, well I guess I'm not too bothered by that.

[smethane]

Instead of Lord of the Rings think Warhammer fantasy. 

 

Reading "Warrior Priest" atm, almost all the fighting is done with hammer and sword but one character has a pistol as well, lets him get out of a tight spot every now an then. 

 

 

Just think of guns as an alchemist's fire sticks. As to whether this takes the game out of the high fantasy realm, well I guess I'm not too bothered by that.

 

What he said. Think of a thiefy character, light or no armour, covered in little vials and he has a metal tube with an automated tinder box on it. when he activates the clockwork mechanism of the tinder box it explodes and sends a tiny ( or a bunch of tiny?) metal balls flying out the other end of the tube. 

 

Now its not a gun, its a bang stick, and its cool! 

 

If they did anything more advanced than that I might be a little disappointed but I can always just ignore them, plenty of ways to play these types of games... Right Obsidian? Right?!

 

...

 

Right answer! (if you said yes)

 

I know I could just do research, but do we have an estimated release date yet? I'm getting excited

[Tamerlane]

PoE has matchlock rifles, a weapon used in the 15th and 16th centuries. This is the same timeframe as a lot of other fantasy staples - gothic plate, formal jousting tournaments, the printing press (notably absent in PoE, though), and travel across/exploration of the sea. It's no more inherently "modern" than a suit of plate armor.

[Wicelo]

I agree with OP, I dislike the idea of guns; I dislike Arcanum because of the technology part I find it to break immersion I'm a bit sad PE went that way but what can you do

[PrimeJunta]

Yeah, it's really too bad nobody's made an epic western fantasy swords and sorcery dwarves-and-elves-oh-my role-playing game yet.

[milczyciel]

I really dislike the abuse of "immersion" word.

Seriously, I'm doing my best not to be hostile here, but where and what would be Arcanum (one of my top beloved crpgs) without the conflict between technology and magic? Sure, main antagonist's goals could be presented just as well without that techno-flavor, but again - Arcanum that we know and love (or hate), is all about this very conflict.

I bet O knows that very well and won't loose the chance of mentioning and debating possible impact the gun will sooner or later have over PoE world.

 

So as you (probably) already guessed I'm fine with flintlock guns.

...at least as long as they won't end up nerfed or -don't know how to explain it in other words- jrpg'ised.

And yes, I KNOW that those type of firearms where neither the most powerful, accurate or reliable, but just as Plutone00 said - used wisely, they could make all the difference.

 

Especially against someone who diminishes it's significance.

 

dited typo

Edited December 24, 2013 by milczyciel

[rjshae]

Guns + fantasy ==> Princess Mononoke...

[Messier-31]

 

why guns in such an epic time

 

Because.

[Walsingham]

How are guns immersion breaking anyway? Are they too hard to imagine?

[Yonjuro]

I'll just leave this here:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farmer_Giles_of_Ham

[LadyCrimson]

I'm not a huge fan of magic+tech, but I don't mind some mingling. I have a feeling, from little we know, that what they're doing in Eternity won't be too jarring to "fantasy" lovers. It'll be present/an option and something to consider/defend when planning for combat - just like bows are an option - but tech isn't some major dominant overall theme, if that makes sense. Presented in a way that makes sense to the world and story, like  Plutone00 above described. And I'm sure it'll still seem plenty "fantasy" like even if it's not Tolkein-like (which is fine with me).

 

That's my feelings anyway, based on what I've seen/heard.

[Keyrock]

Video being better than words:

 

Also:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hx3Bz6cIPiw

 

Shop smart.  Shop S-Mart!

[Adhin]

Yeah I'm usually not a big fan of guns in high fantasy but a lot of that stems from them not having a good explanation for them. Generally when you have magic, the evolution of guns seems... a little pointless. That's probably why I like the idea of them in PoE though. They're explained, they have a specific purpose and it's not to replace the bow or the sword. The only real reason they've taken off in any real way is because they allow people to break through a magical protection shield.

 

Which means you got a rifle or pistol with a single shot, your pretty much using it to break through a magic users defenses before attacking via other means. I think that's an interesting way of handling it. Also never minded them in GW2, but again it was explained in that. There was a race that invented them for warfare purposes as an industrial boom so they had em. Little awkward how 'fast' they fired but whatever.

 

Anyway I like the little added detail and that guns aren't just all over the place or the 'best thing to always use'. They have a purpose and outside of that purpose you probably have better ways to handle stuff.

 

-edit-

Oh and I don't like thinking of it as 'colonial era' but that's mostly cause America. I know 'colonial era' is kinda all over the place and hard to pin down but it just brings up thoughts of the start of America for me which is extremely far from high fantasy in so many ways. Also Wheellocks are a lot older then that, 1500's roughly. Flintlocks came after, hundred years or so after. And again when I think 'Colonial' I think more around the 1700-1800's.

 

...But that's just me.

Edited December 25, 2013 by Adhin

[IRMA]

im all for new sruff. cant imagine this ruining my experience. it wont be too strong but it will nerf melee and add something new. adding firearms was good move and im thankful for it.

[PrimeJunta]

The colonial era started in the 1500's, following the European voyages of discovery. What you're thinking of is the later part of it, sometimes called the imperial era. The distinction is fuzzy, but the main diff is that in the colonial period, Spain and Portugal dominated, whereas in the imperial one, it was mostly Britain and France. So generally speaking if someone says "colonial period" the default assumption would be that it refers to the first, Spanish-Portuguese part of it.

[teknoman2]

indeed it is not high fantasy and they said it... it's alternative fantasy. and since it is in a colonial era setting (like our 1600-1800) and not a medieval (1000-1300), i do not see how guns would break immersion, they are part of the setting. immersion breaking would be to have something that does not fit the setting like tanks in Baldur's Gate

[Elerond]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_colonialism

 

Colonial era 1492 - 1945/99

 

Starting from Age of Discovery and ending to massive decolonization after World War II. In 1999 Portugal give up their last Asian colony Macau. Although France, Great Britain  and other countries still own some of their colonies, so one could argue that colonial era is still ongoing era.

[Adhin]

Yeah Colonial Era is a rather long, and blurry period that, as Elerond pointed out could be said to still be going but... Ehh whatever. Like I said when you say 'Colonial' I think 1700's roughly. I don't think of the 'very' start of it when it blurred with the middle ages. Also I've never heard anyone call that time period the Imperial Ages. Generally when you talk about 'imperial' its rome or greece ancient times.

 

Either way, my whole point was it doesn't really matter 'WHEN' the Colonial period started as when I think of Colonial, I think of the 1700s. Which is long past wheellocks and anyone using armor or swords for anything other then flash. 1500 is when Wheellocks where invented, folks still used armor and swords, and that's basically what PoE is going for. Which is more of a transitional period of middle ages into what I'd consider Colonial.

 

Ultimately folks wont be waring old Colonial attire from when the North Americas where being colonized. There wont be any flintlocks, its wheellocks and a lot of middle age melee warfare. With Magic, lots of Soul Magic. And no Printing Press. Swords, plate/scale/chain armor, magic, wheellocks.

 

...wonder if anyones going to be waring any extremely stupid wigs. Still don't get why they wore those. Weird time.

Edited December 25, 2013 by Adhin

[teknoman2]

those wigs are a topic worthy of research

Edited December 25, 2013 by teknoman2