Begining/orgins and history of our character.

[Mor]

I prefer RPGs to look forward, not back. My PC's history prior to the time I played as it has no value to me. Only the things I choose with the character now matter.

There isn't much they can do with your history, but where you came from can play on prejudices that are ingrained in many local cultures.e.g. Playing as Aedyry explorer will not make your popular in Eir Glanfath etc.

 

Blank Slate please.

How about a slave on Vailian naval vessel, who was abducted from *insert ethnicity*, who start the plot in drywood as no one.(similar to morrowind)

[Ulquiorra]

If it's not relevant, it doesn't need to be brought up. If it's relevant, it can happen during the course of the game, not before.

 

"relevant" i like that word. Becouse ... everything in your live is relevant. You have no book or film character that doesn have "hisotry" before film or book is starting and at least in some point it pumps out.

 

Everything is relevant and is makeing game beliveble, for example i create a char that knows how to craft from 1 level, from who i as ? Was he son of blacksmith, learned from alchemist or learn from the book.

 

A guy that knows how to fight at level 1 better then other classes, how he gained those abilitis, was he trained, or was he learning alone. Druid, how a druid learn how to "BE a Druid" if whole life he was living inside a castle, town...

 

secoundry WHY my char decided to become "ADVENTURER" insead if "Commoner" what motivation he was given besides "kill achdevil" ? (an i assume that are not gonna be copy and past from BG storyline)

 

But's take a example of BG, ok i understand WHY main char was after "Main evil" becouse he killed Gorion, but what if gorions fate was nothing to main char, why he goes to neshkiel mines ?

 

Past of the char as i sad is allwas "relevant" even not having "relevant story" says something about charcter ...

 

I assume that you know that if you read any book, and from what i know devs say that game is for peaople that are "Reading" or at least like to "Read". ...

Edited November 29, 2013 by Ulquiorra

[lolaldanee]

i've seen every option done well

 

without any specific history, like in gothic (you are a prisoner without name even, and there is nothing known about you other than you are being sent to prison)

 

with a predefined character with slight variations like in mass effect (you are allianze officer on board this ship, now choose why it came to this) Dragon Age 2 is another example where this worked well, only there it depended more on the class you chose

 

or with completely different origins like in dragon age1, it's by far the hardest to do, but the most impressive if done well too

worked for some origins in dragon age1, for some it didn't

but overall it always felt like there was too little reactivity to your very specific character in that game, despite there being quite a lot, it just never felt enough

if going down that road, one has to be prepared to create a load of dialog many players aren't ever going to see

Edited November 29, 2013 by lolaldanee

[Bill Gates' Son]

Since you're suppose to be a foreigner in this game (I think), I would like for them to go the Arcanum route the many different backgrounds.  They don't have to affect the story that much at all, but it should change some dialog choices here or there when talking to some NPCs.

[teknoman2]

Since you're suppose to be a foreigner in this game (I think), I would like for them to go the Arcanum route the many different backgrounds.  They don't have to affect the story that much at all, but it should change some dialog choices here or there when talking to some NPCs.

in Arcanum you are not a foreigner... the blimp's route is Caladon-Tarant, so no matter the background, you are from somewhere around Caladon, and that makes the inexistence of anyone who knows you more hard to digest

[drake heath]

I'd like choose-able origins, or anything that lets me feel like I'm a part of the world and from there, rather than some foreigner.

 

They don't need to be playable, I'd just like for my character to reference in-universe things and people, or just talk about their life or where they are from.

[Silent Winter]

But's take a example of BG, ok i understand WHY main char was after "Main evil" becouse he killed Gorion, but what if gorions fate was nothing to main char, why he goes to neshkiel mines ?

It's actually because they're out to kill you - Gorion was just in the way.

Going to Nashkel and the mines is Jaheira's/Montaron's idea - you just tag along for 'safety in numbers' if you're 'evil' or for helping out if you're 'good'.

And you don't have to run to Nashkel mines if you don't want to - you'll end up there sooner or later but if you don't want to play the game that way then head off to other locations and see what happens...

 

So we could have more intricate backstories than in BG (where your backstory was central to the plot and less mutable) but then the Arcanum route would be fine (and be able to choose "grew up in a mid-size town and kept his head down" for 'no significant backstory').

 

I seem to recall reading that you'd be new to the area and 'just off a ship' , but I could be misremembering an idea-post.

[Karkarov]

Don't know why you guys like playing characters with no personality or history so much.  It isn't like you can really control your character personality anyway when all your dialog choices are always limited by what the devs give you.  Personally I voted DA:O's like game start with medium game influence.

[CaptainMace]

It's actually way more immersive when the character starts blank. Fallout, for example, makes you play a dude from a vault and that's really all you have to know for the story to start.

I don't like extended background/origins for PC because i'm still disappointed about the little impact it really had in DAO (and, again, the fact that some are better than other is not an excuse), It's irrelevant as someone said above.

[Mor]

It's actually way more immersive when the character starts blank. Fallout, for example, makes you play a dude from a vault and that's really all you have to know for the story to start.

I don't like extended background/origins for PC because i'm still disappointed about the little impact it really had in DAO (and, again, the fact that some are better than other is not an excuse), It's irrelevant as someone said above.

I guess we have different definitions of "origin". The way I see it, extended background doesn't mean you are going to get huge exposition dumps before you can start playing. It's just the writers way to reinforce the narrative(e.g. In BG2 your shared background with your BG1 companions). For me this basically the game story/setting, while your "Origin" is a way to make that experience more personal based on your choice during character creation. This can be as simple as your race\ethnicity have bearing on how you will be treated in various parts of the world.(I think it adds a lot to immersion and help shape unique characters personalities better, when they react to such things) or it can go as far as providing unique quests lines tailored for your "Origin"(Race,ethnicity,class whatever else we can choose).

 

As for your experience with DA:O, maybe it was just over hyped or poorly implemented, but to me more options that expand on our choices and add to your replayability value is always good, even if some of them are better than others.

[decado]

I don't really care about origin stories because I've never really seen them done well.  They always end up becoming fairly meaningless in the final analysis.  Other people have brought up DAO as a point of comparison, and I think that is fair.  The origins were cool and all, but after you got to Ostagar they didn't really mean anything, and they had only a tangential effect on the game as a whole.   I prefer the BGII/NWN2 way of doing things.

Edited November 30, 2013 by decado

[Messier-31]

I would like to have at least some information about the PC past. I liked the idea of choosing a simple backstory in "Neverwinter" (MMO, not the NWN series). It gives you a glimpse of who you have been before and improves your role-playing experience a bit. Every time in pnp we had our backstory. Also, that could lead to some minor differences during your gameplay, but still noticable. I want, I want, I want, I want!

[Nonek]

I'll let Obsidian surprise me, however I certainly don't want a situation like in DA:O where Sten asks my Dwarf for advice about humans, like the Orzammar native would know. Certainly he neither knew nor cared about spellcasters.

 

Edit: I guess i'm really asking for dialogue options that fit my character, or which will clearly mark out his personality like in Torment and clearly have an effect in the world. After all just because the writers give us only a limited number of options is no reason to have illogical, unreactive ones, then again I trust Obsidian in this respect, they've proved themselves above the developers who make all their responses lead to the same outcome.

Edited November 30, 2013 by Nonek

[coffeetable]

It's been confirmed that you can't play a Dyrwood native because Obsidian don't want the character to have any pre-existing knowledge of the area, so you're almost certainly a new arrival from the old world. Together with the fact that at the opening of the game is you, explicitly an ordinary person, get caught in the wrong place at the wrong time, I reckon the character's almost certainly a blank slate.

 

e: Here's the proposed opening for The Black Hound (aka Baldur's Gate 3), which Josh Sawyer was the lead for back in 2002:

 

 

May Farrow and her gang of raiders have spent weeks tracking down the black hound, the essence of May's guilt for unleashing a great evil. The player character is resting by the firelight in an old barn to hide from the storm outside when a black hound arrives and after being shot twice by an arrow, it cries one last time before it dies on the player lap. May almost kills the player, accusing him of being in league with the dog (meaning she thinks the player character is another essence of her guilt) and almost kills the player character (PC) before the Riders of Archendale save the PC. They question the PC, take the PC to the magistrate, who question the PC further and inform the PC not to leave the areas of North Sembia, Archendale, Battledale and Deepingdale. Whenever the player then approaches somebody with great guilt, the black hound appears to him and eventually the players actions make the player the essence of guilt throughout the four areas mentioned above.

Edited November 30, 2013 by coffeetable

[lolaldanee]

that actually sounds like a pretty interesting plot

[Quetzalcoatl]

Don't know why you guys like playing characters with no personality or history so much.  It isn't like you can really control your character personality anyway when all your dialog choices are always limited by what the devs give you.  Personally I voted DA:O's like game start with medium game influence.

Why would anyone want to play 'characters with no personality or history'? The point is that implementing unique and elaborate backgrounds costs a lot of effort, time and resources in return for something that adds relatively little to the game and ends up clashing with the role-playing aspect and even limiting it. It's much better to come up with a starting premise (i.e. stranger in a new land) that sidesteps that issue.   

 

And I really wouldn't use the Origins in DA:O as an example. They were less 'origin' and more 'excuse to railroad you into the Grey Warden story'.

Edited November 30, 2013 by Quetzalcoatl

[anameforobsidian]

I don't see origin as terribly important.  Baldur's Gate and PST gave you the same origin throughout the series, and there were plenty of choices that defined your character throughout.

 

Besides, they've given enough clues to guess that it's going to be somewhat similar to PS:T.  The main character and several party members will have fragments of the soul of Saint Waidwen / Eothos or whatever god gave Waidwen power.

 

Within that, I imagine there will be reactions to your race/subrace more than your origin.  I'm looking forward to taking my godlike cypher all the way to apotheosis.

[Mor]

It's my understanding that Dragon age:Origins "Origins" are just gimmicky name for adding a quest line that is based on your choices during character creation. Nothing unique or elaborate about that mechanic, you had couple of those in BG2 and in most RPGs, only it was about your "origin".(How they achieved it its a matter for another discussion)

 

Btw is it fair to say that DA:O railroaded you into the Grey Warden story? how much diffrent it was from you being "Reailroaded" into spellhold encounter in BG2? in fact i'd argue that every plot have some choke points.

Edited November 30, 2013 by Mor

[Quetzalcoatl]

Choke points aren't necessarily bad if what the player character is pursuing is a selfish and personal goal. From the information released so far, it sounds like Project Eternity will handle that better than DA:O and BG2 did:

The player witnesses an extraordinary and horrific supernatural event that thrusts them into a unique and difficult circumstance. Burdened with the consequences of this event, the player has to investigate what has happened in order to free themselves from the restless forces that follow and haunt them wherever they go.

 

 

As for the origins, I think you misunderstood my point. I'm not arguing against dialogue responses or quests tailored for specific races/classes. The origins were opening segments that lasted for an hour or two and that attempted to give your character a fixed history. DA:O had like, what, 6 of these? These origins by their nature impose limitations. You couldn't start out as a human bum, you could only pick human noble or human mage.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Quetzalcoatl

[Mor]

That is not a story choke point, that is the setting for start of our game, thank you for spoiling it for me

 

As for rest, I agree about DA:O approach. iirc in BG2 your alignment/class determined which temple/stronghold you'll join, I liked the first, but I hated the second. What I am trying to say is that I want our "origin"(character selection) to matter, I spent hours on character creation and I love to see those little details come to play in various dialogues or quest. But I prefer that anything more significant than that would be tied out to what we do in game, instead of our "past".

[Karkarov]

I still wonder how many of you actually played Dragon Age Origins.  The origins could have a major impact on the story and depending on your origin some of them actually had endings that could not be achieved if you did not have that specific origin.  Were some of them better implemented than others?  Yes.  But that doesn't mean they sucked or they didn't tie into the game at any point after.  That is just patented BS.

[PrimeJunta]

I voted DAO and "medium." Mostly because I thought the origins in DAO were a great idea that was left sadly undeveloped. I especially liked the dwarf noble and city elf origins. The trouble is that that was pretty much that; the themes explored in the origin stories never really came up later, with even only cosmetic differences in the way stuff played when you returned to the area where you came from.

 

This is, however, not a particularly high priority for me. I'm fine with blank slate characters; I would like the world react to the visible features of the characters.

[PrimeJunta]

I still wonder how many of you actually played Dragon Age Origins.  The origins could have a major impact on the story and depending on your origin some of them actually had endings that could not be achieved if you did not have that specific origin.  Were some of them better implemented than others?  Yes.  But that doesn't mean they sucked or they didn't tie into the game at any point after.  That is just patented BS.

 

I'm thinking of stuff like the guy who goes smoothly from a dwarf noble who doesn't even speak to the plebes except through an intermediary, to someone who comfortably rubs shoulders with characters of all races and social classes, just like that. Or the city elf persecuted by human nobles who then happily interacts with... human nobles. There's a massive missed opportunity for character development there. The plots themselves matter much less IMO.

[Ulquiorra]

As i sad before about orgins.

 

I played all of them (and some of them i looked on dragon age wiki about answers). Human Noble orgin was most "story affecting" orgin in orgins. Becouse :

1. Main plot mostly cosider humans and nobles ( Whole Loghain and arl howe thing, also arl Emmon)

2. They propably don't have time for other ognins, propably becouse of EA.

 

Human noble coud change entire ending and in most quest with human nobles there are major difrences then in other orgins ..

 

Secoud good orgin was Dwarv Noble, becouse it was oragin that changed thole "orzamar and deep roads" quest and also was very ... Athospheric.

 

Other orgins was almost irrelevant, but dalish elf was the worst of all, even in dalish quest they are not the part of the same tribe as you and the only difrence is "oo... you are dalish from other tribe, how lovely..." and nothing more ..

 

 

 

I thing the better way to deal with char history is not "DAO"  but Arcanum becouse "orgin hisotry" is still as good as playable orgin, still gives you feel that your char has history and is not immersion breaking like others or Dragon Age starting from Ostagar. (without beginning story).

 

Our character can chose his own backgroud like "personal revange" or "inteligent schollar" or anything less that gives you hints in entire game about characters past, it more beliveble them "100% blak state".

 

Was start from Fallout Nev Vegas was good or bad ... ?

 

No good or bad, but your character hav no relevant history. But after he get's bullet he start "big" campain and is becoming nemesis or messayah or the wastelands ... Sorry but is it belivble ?

 

Not for me, secound thing. Past, as well and present time or future are 3 dimensions that bulid character in every book, novel, movie etc. Do you imagine movie rambo first blood without "wietnam soldier" orgin for Rambo ? Whoud you like "blank state" for him ?

 

I can't say that blank state is bad, BUT having char with history makes storyline much more beliveble, emotional and personal. For example :

 

First Bond movie Dr. NO an first Rambo Movie "First Blood".

 

1. In first Bond we don't know anything about Bonds past, plot is mostly "action" based and whole plot is mostly "non-personal" and not having anything to offer exept "action and some jokes made by bond".

 

2. Rambo movie, at the begining we don't know too much about him, besides "Delmar" (if i remember) is dead and he was his buddy in Wietnam, he was killed by cancer from "things their used". Nest we see cop that that is acting like an ****, and Rambo is held to jail. (by jail i meat in pilice station). We see that Rambo has history that haunts him. Allmost whole "plot" is os Rambo, but suprisly we don't have as much action as in Dr. No or other Rambo movies. Plot is very dramatic, personal and emotional compared to "dr. NO".

 

This is the difrence between "blank state" and "having history" state. No one wnat "blank state" companions but deep with history etc. Then wy your main character must be made "worse".

 

Saying that "orgin, history, part in not relevant" is ignorant. Becouse in every possibly book, or good story, even not having "relevant" tells us about our character.

 

Do you imagine Game of Thrones with characters that have only "blank state" or main char (or one of them) that has "blank" state ? Everyone has history and everyone has somthing to bing to the table ..

 

Even Frodo from Lord of the Rings had some hisotry and orgin. Not Relevan to he "destroy the ring-quest" but do you imagine a movie or a book with him without those scenes or chapters thet shows our where he lived, who he liked, etc...

 

Im personaly for Arcanum type of orgins becouse it's easyest to do (much easy then playable orgins) but still not immersion breakink like "one orgin" or "blank state-orgin".

Edited December 1, 2013 by Ulquiorra

[Tagaziel]

The poll is skewed, since BG, NWN, and FNV have the same type of background and history for the character: a blank slate for you to write on.