Update #68: ART!

[fortuntek]

I am not often impressed.

My jaw hit the floor.

It was still grinning

[Messier-31]

A group of trolls in-game.

 

Trolls are strollin' (strollin')

Strollin' (strollin')

Strollin' by the river (trolls strollin' by the river)

[Cubiq]

There is no definition of what a fantasy creature should look like, if trolls look like that in the PE universe then so be it, though some might not like it. Maybe it could catch on as a new norm

I can bet you it won't catch on.

It's a huched humanoid with horns. If you squint your eyes you could actually mistake them for humans. The concept on paper the artist drew might looks super awesome but the 3d siluet show here looks indistinctive. There are more interesting interpretations of trolls out there.

 

[Silent Winter]

Thanks for the update - wilderness areas coming along nicely, looking forward to the final versions.

Love those concept art pics

 

I also like this take on trolls - they're natural looking given their environment.

I liked the idea of them  as swift pack-hunters who might jump out of the environment where they were camouflaged and make my team scream in surprise like level 0.5 adventurers....but then I was reminded of blue-circles under characters:

 

...Maybe the missing red circles around them makes them seem to blend in with the background. The characters in the other screenshot has their blue circles, making them stand out from the background at a quick glance.

I did turn the GUI off when I took the shots.

 

Will there be options for separate party/enemy feedback circles?  Or is it 'both on' or 'both off'?

Or could you code a 'surprise attack' from a well-hidden enemy that makes their circles not show up (even when pressing 'tab' or whatever)?

(I think in BG you only got the circles when selecting character or pressing 'tab', but my afternoon-at-work mind is playing tricks on my memory)

[Ulquiorra]

 

Sorry, but im the only one that thinks that those "trolls" look more like orcs or bugbears with horns ?

 

At least if they where bigger and more "massive" they whoud more risemble "folklore" trolls. I even made a thred about it. Not a big issu but for me those "trolls" are "trolls" only by name

It's kind of hard to tell how big something is when there's nothing there to give it scale.

 

Also, how big are orcs and bugbears?

 

 

 

Orc an bugbears are mosty in same hight as human or litte shorther or "little" bigger. On screan shot PE trolls seam to be at close "hight" as humans. So simmillar to orc or bugbears.

 

In other games and books Trolls are mostyly massive and way bigger then humans and even considered as race of giants, Exeptions "wow trolls" with are wery simmillar to PE, from distance you "Coud" mistake them for bandit with woodden horns attached to a head .. sorry but whats good is good and ok but trolls in PE are just lame ...

Edited November 28, 2013 by Ulquiorra

[Mazhlekov]

Hello to everybody! 
I love art updates, keep doing it!  
The art pieces are not bad, but they can be muuuch better. They still need lot of logical construction and polishing. The images in this state have very slight atmosphere which is the most inportant ingredent in such games, further more if this game pretend to have something common with such powerful adventure like BG.
I overpainted one of the images in order to to demonstrate what I have in mind (it tooks me 3 hours):



1. The fireplace is loaded, this mean people use it often andthere is no way near it have brushes. Also when the fire burns it paints all stones in black, the grass around it dies as well. 
2. Usually people walk there commonly.

3. Trees need to be more diversified, now they are very sterile.
4. Brushes on the middle of the intensively used road?!?
5. I put some imagination, the skeleton speaks but not enough. I put this soil poisoning in order to provoke the imagination of the player.
6. Obviously this place was devastated around year or so, this mean people with sure have started to cut out the dead trees around.
7. The road is  not logically narrow.
8. Why there we have such turn? There must be some obstacle, people always use the shortest path.
9. The poisoning is not only around the skeleton, guess why?

With this corrections I believe the shot become more alive, with deeper atmosphere and with much more story inside.

I believe constructive critic is the most precious gift to one creator! 
Have a sunny day!

[Mor]

 

There is no definition of what a fantasy creature should look like, if trolls look like that in the PE universe then so be it, though some might not like it. Maybe it could catch on as a new norm

I can bet you it won't catch on.

It's a huched humanoid with horns. If you squint your eyes you could actually mistake them for humans. The concept on paper the artist drew might looks super awesome but the 3d siluet show here looks indistinctive. There are more interesting interpretations of trolls out there.

 

I think they look fine, but after reading your post, I agree that they are not very distinctive.

 

 

EDIT:

@Mazhlekov, I am not certain that those screens represent final works, but you made great points and touch ups.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Mor

[Grotesque]

I don't believe this! I put 150+ U.S.D. in a game that is unable to get some frackin' trees right.

 

 

 

This screenshot is dedicated to the entire art department because I see you clearly struggle with proportions and believable structures

[Monte Carlo]

Wow, the troll discussion makes me realise my geek genes are waaaay under control. Compared to some of you, of course.

 

D&D trolls suck ass. Seriously.

 

 

If P:E wants sinewy, camouflage trolls then so what?

[Mazhlekov]

I don't believe this! I put 150+ U.S.D. in a game that is unable to get some frackin' trees right.

 

 Hey, dude, they are far - far away from the something we can call final vision, aestetics or mood. This will be the role of the artists to hone all things up and to improve the mood... patience, my friend

[Mazhlekov]

Wow, the troll discussion makes me realise my geek genes are waaaay under control. Compared to some of you, of course.

 

D&D trolls suck ass. Seriously.

 

 

If P:E wants sinewy, camouflage trolls then so what?

Very atmospheric, this is the thing they miss till this moment...

[Junker]

 Hey, dude, they are far - far away from the something we can call final vision, aestetics or mood. This will be the role of the artists to hone all things up and to improve the mood... patience, my friend

 

How long can we use this excuse? Presumably they've been working on it for over a year plus outsourcing, yet a random forum post can show them up with 3 hours of work. These screenshots are bland, uninspired, and appear to have been thrown together in about 10 minutes playing in a world builder. I wouldn't be so quick to show off unfinished work like this over a year into production.

 

No offense, but updates lately have been sparse and extremely meh. Nothing impressive since the animated waterfall scene. Updates like this do more harm than good, but maybe I'm alone on that.

 

But on the bright side, Obsidian seems to have the full support of a loyal fanbase. Hard to go wrong if a few cut and pasted object clashing against a grass backdrop can generate dozens of "Beautiful! I'm dreaming! Looks like my ideal game!" comments.

 

The concept art is pretty cool.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Junker

[Grotesque]

 

I don't believe this! I put 150+ U.S.D. in a game that is unable to get some frackin' trees right.

 

 Hey, dude, they are far - far away from the something we can call final vision, aestetics or mood. This will be the role of the artists to hone all things up and to improve the mood... patience, my friend

 

 

If you are right, imagine the cost to edit already made maps. Do you really think they will change this? All they can do is to downgrade them to bushes and move on and hopefully somebody there would draw some more realistically trees.

This is not about painting over some effects. Its about the structure of an already implemented art element.

I also hope the proportions of the buildings would see a more in depth look.

 

What I loved at the Infinity engine games was the photorealistic environment with a slight twist.

What I saw in the outdoors screenshots  and some of the buildings is something more cartoonish with a  disregard for proper proportions (Stronghold screenshots are the worst)

Character art implementations is very good on the other side.

 

They are not the lame Blizzard to afford to reiterate things to death.

3.9 millions for such a project!? Not nearly enough is they want to uphold all the promises.

I think Mr. Urquhart begins to regret starting this game because he knows that this project will not fill the coffers to an already bloated Obsidian.

So no, remaking maps is out of the question.

[Lord Weh]

 

 Hey, dude, they are far - far away from the something we can call final vision, aestetics or mood. This will be the role of the artists to hone all things up and to improve the mood... patience, my friend

 

How long can we use this excuse? Presumably they've been working on it for over a year plus outsourcing, yet a random forum post can show them up with 3 hours of work. These screenshots are bland, uninspired, and appear to have been thrown together in about 10 minutes playing in a world builder. I wouldn't be so quick to show off unfinished work like this over a year into production.

 

No offense, but updates lately have been sparse and extremely meh. Nothing impressive since the animated waterfall scene. Updates like this do more harm than good, but maybe I'm alone on that.

 

But on the bright side, Obsidian seems to have the full support of a loyal fanbase. Hard to go wrong if a few cut and pasted object clashing against a grass backdrop can generate dozens of "Beautiful! I'm dreaming! Looks like my ideal game!" comments.

 

The concept art is pretty cool.

 

As has been explained several times already, these areas haven't had their 'paint over' yet, which is one of the final passes that areas go through. Mazhlekov's post was pretty cool... but that's exactly the kind of work they're going to do... When they get to the final art pass! No point them doing that work now if they realise parts of the map have to be changed or moved to fit with a quest or for better gameplay flow, etc.

 

I understand the frustration, and I suspect these screens were selected as they're non-spoilery and just something to fill a quick apology email explaining no update this week... But, as explained, these areas aren't finished and haven't been painted over yet for the proper details.

[Ulquiorra]

Wow, the troll discussion makes me realise my geek genes are waaaay under control. Compared to some of you, of course.

 

D&D trolls suck ass. Seriously.

 

 

If P:E wants sinewy, camouflage trolls then so what?

 

I allways was thinking that trolls where regenerating .. not ... sucking

 

To the topic, still it looks more "Trollish" then hobgoblins with woodden horns, first Biowere give horns to ogres in Dragon age, now Obsidian give horns to trolls .. whats about those horns ?

 

Whats next elfs with horns ? or horny dwaves ? (but elf with horns whoud like by the way good )

[Mazhlekov]

@Junker @Grotesque - I'm shure they know what they doing and in the end they will do it well. Also I believe our critic will be very useful for them and will help them to improve even more the game!  
Patience is gold!

Edited November 28, 2013 by Mazhlekov

[ProjectBG2Respawn]

Hello to everybody! 

I love art updates, keep doing it!  

The art pieces are not bad, but they can be muuuch better. They still need lot of logical construction and polishing. The images in this state have very slight atmosphere which is the most inportant ingredent in such games, further more if this game pretend to have something common with such powerful adventure like BG.

I overpainted one of the images in order to to demonstrate what I have in mind (it tooks me 3 hours):

 

 

1. The fireplace is loaded, this mean people use it often andthere is no way near it have brushes. Also when the fire burns it paints all stones in black, the grass around it dies as well. 

2. Usually people walk there commonly.

3. Trees need to be more diversified, now they are very sterile.

4. Brushes on the middle of the intensively used road?!?

5. I put some imagination, the skeleton speaks but not enough. I put this soil poisoning in order to provoke the imagination of the player.

6. Obviously this place was devastated around year or so, this mean people with sure have started to cut out the dead trees around.

7. The road is  not logically narrow.

8. Why there we have such turn? There must be some obstacle, people always use the shortest path.

9. The poisoning is not only around the skeleton, guess why?

 

With this corrections I believe the shot become more alive, with deeper atmosphere and with much more story inside.

 

I believe constructive critic is the most precious gift to one creator! 

Have a sunny day!

 

Great work dude, reeeeally nice.

 

The idea of the rock is cool but your rock sucks. Sorry to say that.

 

 

 

The hunching is an indication that the troll model was built from Skuldr assets as it has a similar size, look and stance. A while back they were talking about the re-use of assets especially in the rigging and animation areas, and this is the result.http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/63395-update-43-pretty-and-technical/

Then there is this nifty rig that was discussed a little bit, a couple updates ago — fricken’ Adam (PE's Executive Producer) always stealing my thunder! I think we call it the “stretch rig”. As he mentioned, it allows Dimitri, our dutiful Character Lead, to scale, even non-proportionally (with volume adjustments) meshes with the export rig already weighted. This way we can make a human character mesh, rig him to a human-proportioned skeleton, animate him, then take that same character and deform him to a new size and proportion, export him and use the same animations that were created for the human on this newly scaled/deformed mesh. This is a very useful asset multiplier, which allows us to leverage costly armor set and animation development across the spectrum of our races.

Even Character models hunch over at idle.

This is incorrect. The trolls are not on the Skuldr rig. The trolls are sharing a rig and animations with other creatures but still need to have their pass for tweaking and creating new anims.

 

 

 

Pictures of the game >>>>>>>>> F************ing awesome !!!

 

But the trolls look like Radagast friends, like spriggans in Elder Scrolls...

 

I hope they will have specifics animations.

[IndiraLightfoot]

_{Mazhlekov: Great effort in just three hours! But yeah, that boulder looks like pumice at best.}

[Quetzalcoatl]

I don't think the game is supposed to take place in autumn...

Edited November 28, 2013 by Quetzalcoatl

[JFSOCC]

 

Hey, dude, they are far - far away from the something we can call final vision, aestetics or mood. This will be the role of the artists to hone all things up and to improve the mood... patience, my friend

 

How long can we use this excuse? Presumably they've been working on it for over a year plus outsourcing, yet a random forum post can show them up with 3 hours of work. These screenshots are bland, uninspired, and appear to have been thrown together in about 10 minutes playing in a world builder. I wouldn't be so quick to show off unfinished work like this over a year into production.

 

No offense, but updates lately have been sparse and extremely meh. Nothing impressive since the animated waterfall scene. Updates like this do more harm than good, but maybe I'm alone on that.

 

But on the bright side, Obsidian seems to have the full support of a loyal fanbase. Hard to go wrong if a few cut and pasted object clashing against a grass backdrop can generate dozens of "Beautiful! I'm dreaming! Looks like my ideal game!" comments.

 

The concept art is pretty cool.

 

no not really alone, at least concerning the environment art. I didn't want to say anything because I don't want to come across as overly critical, and I've already mentioned it before. But I agree, I find the environments to be very bland and ultimately disappointing. I think mazhlekov's reworked screen shows some nice work.

 

Now maybe it's because it needed a few more passes, which it would get, but I guess it's best to criticise now rather than when it can't be changed. I should've done so in the first place.

Edited November 28, 2013 by JFSOCC

[Sabotin]

I agree that it's not really fair to judge an unfinished work, but on the other hand I think that's exactly the right time where critical input is valuable - when you can still change or try different things. What the developers are saying/showing is not always what we players are understanding or expecting, so it's better to question than to assume.

 

For example, I've followed pretty closely the development of DA2 at the time. If you've played DA:O, you know that 2h weapons have really slow animations at base attack speed and the damage is applied at the end of the animation (not at mid swing), which could at higher levels lead to weird "lag" of mechanics behind animations, where things like taking extra swings at should-already-be-dead enemies would happen. So they said that they've sped up a little the animations and made the damage apply more in front rather than the back to solve this. So I was expecting a kind of bug fix/tweak and was content. Well, we know how that turned out, don't we? Technically they've said the truth, but yeah...

 

Anyway, on a more positive note, we may see more stuff as they try to impress us more ;D .

[Mor]

There is a Russian saying about not showing half a work, which fits well here. As you have seen in the waterfall and chamber locations, and you can see here:

 

 

 

There are more much more varied and unique environments than what we seen, obviously they are through various stages of development and you can't expect them to rush development, obsessing over final touches before work over content is done, just for your peephole pleasure...

 

As for constructive criticism such as what Mazhlekov did, I think that most will agree it's most welcome.

[Cubiq]

As far as the maps being void of interesting things, i don't think we are seeing the whole map, just a part of it.

If you compare the size of IE games outdoor maps to this, i think the size difference is about 1:6 the least.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Hello to everybody! 

I love art updates, keep doing it!  

The art pieces are not bad, but they can be muuuch better. They still need lot of logical construction and polishing. The images in this state have very slight atmosphere which is the most inportant ingredent in such games, further more if this game pretend to have something common with such powerful adventure like BG.

I overpainted one of the images in order to to demonstrate what I have in mind (it tooks me 3 hours):

 

 

1. The fireplace is loaded, this mean people use it often andthere is no way near it have brushes. Also when the fire burns it paints all stones in black, the grass around it dies as well. 

2. Usually people walk there commonly.

3. Trees need to be more diversified, now they are very sterile.

4. Brushes on the middle of the intensively used road?!?

5. I put some imagination, the skeleton speaks but not enough. I put this soil poisoning in order to provoke the imagination of the player.

6. Obviously this place was devastated around year or so, this mean people with sure have started to cut out the dead trees around.

7. The road is  not logically narrow.

8. Why there we have such turn? There must be some obstacle, people always use the shortest path.

9. The poisoning is not only around the skeleton, guess why?

 

With this corrections I believe the shot become more alive, with deeper atmosphere and with much more story inside.

 

I believe constructive critic is the most precious gift to one creator! 

Have a sunny day!

 

Really like what you've done here. Good work!

 

 

 

 Hey, dude, they are far - far away from the something we can call final vision, aestetics or mood. This will be the role of the artists to hone all things up and to improve the mood... patience, my friend

 

How long can we use this excuse? Presumably they've been working on it for over a year plus outsourcing, yet a random forum post can show them up with 3 hours of work. These screenshots are bland, uninspired, and appear to have been thrown together in about 10 minutes playing in a world builder. I wouldn't be so quick to show off unfinished work like this over a year into production.

 

No offense, but updates lately have been sparse and extremely meh. Nothing impressive since the animated waterfall scene. Updates like this do more harm than good, but maybe I'm alone on that.

 

I agree. It would be good to see some transitional before and after screen shots. Something similar to what Mazhiekov has done. While it's nice to see the unfinished screen shots, it would be good to see the finished screen shots as well.

[karelia]

Mazhlekov's mock-up was really impressive to me - I get that the final paint-over is yet to be done on the original image, but hopefully one of the artists might see his suggestion and be surprised at how such a simple change of colours and attention to detail made the scene immediately much more reminiscent of Baldur's Gate 1.

 

IMO this is a vindication of the idea of Kickstarter levels of transparency with sharing work in progress material, and makes me grateful to Obsidian for sharing them - hopefully - before they are finalised, so to be able to potentially take in any feedback that might be useful. I would never pretend that the majority of our suggestions are practical or desirable to the developers, but some may hopefully help in a small way, especially when presented as clearly as Mazhlekov did.

Edited November 29, 2013 by karelia