Dragon Age: Inquisition

[Serrano]

I wonder if they're likely to use the Warden at all as an NPC? There are multiple outcomes where you'd expect him to play a part in the story if some of these events are bleeding over into Ferelden or are to do with Morrigan.  

Edited September 3, 2013 by Serrano

[NOK222]

I wonder if they're likely to use the Warden at all as an NPC? There are multiple outcomes where you'd expect him to play a part in the story if some of these events are bleeding over into Ferelden or are to do with Morrigan.  

 

Unless part of this "Keep" thing includes redesigning your past PC's on the new engine, then no. 

[Gromnir]

Female Dwarven Inquisitor.

 

if you hadn't told us she were dwarven, we wouldn't have guessed. sure, she looks like she gots good and healthy child-bearing hips, but otherwise she is looking rather identical to our notion o' "human." now, the nosferatu next to her, on the other hand, seems rather casual and unconcerned 'bout being in direct sunlight. how curious.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited September 3, 2013 by Gromnir

[Serrano]

 

I wonder if they're likely to use the Warden at all as an NPC? There are multiple outcomes where you'd expect him to play a part in the story if some of these events are bleeding over into Ferelden or are to do with Morrigan.  

 

Unless part of this "Keep" thing includes redesigning your past PC's on the new engine, then no. 

 

Good point. 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

I wonder if they're likely to use the Warden at all as an NPC? There are multiple outcomes where you'd expect him to play a part in the story if some of these events are bleeding over into Ferelden or are to do with Morrigan.

 

 

Unless part of this "Keep" thing includes redesigning your past PC's on the new engine, then no.

I could see it being part of the keep. I suppose alanshu could tell us if he stumbles into this thread.

[NOK222]

 

 

if you hadn't told us she were dwarven, we wouldn't have guessed. 

I've met girls shorter than her who were still considered "normal height"

[Zoraptor]

 

 

I wonder if they're likely to use the Warden at all as an NPC? There are multiple outcomes where you'd expect him to play a part in the story if some of these events are bleeding over into Ferelden or are to do with Morrigan.

 

Unless part of this "Keep" thing includes redesigning your past PC's on the new engine, then no.

I could see it being part of the keep. I suppose alanshu could tell us if he stumbles into this thread.

 

The default setup is Warden = Sacrificed = Dead, yes? If so, I wouldn't really expect much if any content dealing with them, as it's likely for most people they will be dead, story wise.

 

Might be nice if you could have a statue or painting commissioned of the Great Hero, but whether he was an international great hero or just a local Fereldan one is a bit of an open question as well.

[Volourn]

Don't know the numbers for DA dwarves lore wise but in D&D, dwarves can be as tall as 5'0".

[Magnum Opus]

 

On a even MORE personal level, I also prefer a more "first principles" approach to the portrayal of magic: the more normal/run down/shabby my mage seems BEFORE casting the earth-shattering, soul-splitting spell, the more impressive the magic itself seems. If a grimoire is involved, I'd personally prefer to see him pull it out of his backpack, flip a few pages distractedly, or maybe even sit wearily on the ground with the book open in front of him if it's a really big spell, and THEN open the gates of hell. But that's just me.

Why are you assuming that the PC will be using grimoires? I mean, I doubt we're going to be using red lyrium bows, carry full body shields, or run around shirtless with spike armor. NPCs often have a wide range of visual elements that have nothing to do with the PC or companions.

I'm not assuming that PCs WILL be using grimoires.  I'm assuming that the possibility exists that they (or someone else in the game world) MIGHT use grimoires, because of that video with the mage doing obviously magicky things with the book, with the book being sort of off to the side somewhat, as though the mage were using the book as a facilitator or catalyst, rather than it being the target of the spell.

 

Was a visual cue sort of thing on my part.  HIGHLY speculative, and most definitely NOT to be taken as factual... or even likely, for that matter.  The entire post was speculation; If grimoires, then X, Y, and Z. 

[anubite]

Dwarves had a <5% playrate in DA:O, which prompted their removal in DA2. Gaider's posts on BW back me up on this. He and I attribute this to a lack of 'empathizability' (the dwarves are pretty tolkien-esque; tired and drab - they aren't presented in any interesting way at the beginning of DA:O either, so there isn't a compelling reason to pick them) and the fact the core, target audience is the console market (who largely aren't exposed to 'roleplaying' anyway).

 

They are probably seeing dwarves in the same way they see the major races of Mass Effect - there's a reason Liara is a blue skinned human and not something more alien - because it's easy to empathize (and be sexually attracted to) something that is plainly human. So, dwarves getting the height treatment is probably one of their strategies for justifying bringing back the races for player characters. You can bet elves and qunari will have other such 'improvements'.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Well, she is standing next to an elf and IIRC they are more than a head shorter than humans. Meh.

[Keyrock]

Dwarves had a <5% playrate in DA:O, which prompted their removal in DA2. Gaider's posts on BW back me up on this. 

Which is a shame since the dwarven starting stories were easily the most interesting in the game.  In fact, the entire dwarven plot in DA:O is, to me, BY FAR the best thing in the entire series.  It's really the only thing I found truly interesting and compelling.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Keyrock

[NOK222]

 

Dwarves had a <5% playrate in DA:O, which prompted their removal in DA2. Gaider's posts on BW back me up on this. 

Which is a shame since the dwarven starting stories were easily the most interesting in the game.  In fact, the entire dwarven plot in DA:O is, to me, BY FAR the best thing in the entire series.  It's really the only thing I found truly interesting and compelling.

 

And you know why they have a low playrate? Cause people love their origin. But then would rather play as a human just to marry alistair or something. 

 

And that to Bioware means CUTTTTTT

[Gromnir]

no doubt bio will finally cave to the Average Gamer desires and simply makes all characters elves.  add 2 sliders:  girth & height. that way if you is some kinda 5% freak, you can makes a short and buff elf instead o' going through all that dwarf nonsense. make'em all pretty and give'em pointy ears. call it a day.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Volourn]

"simply makes all characters elves. "

 

Elves weren't all that popular either. Majority went human, but screw the majoirty. they're idiots.

 

DWARVES ALL THE WAY!!!

 

 

"He and I attribute this to a lack of 'empathizability' (the dwarves are pretty tolkien-esque; tired and drab - they aren't presented in any interesting way at the beginning of DA:O either, so there isn't a compelling reason to pick them)"

 

No. The dwarves were less Tolkienized than the humans. For one thing, DA dwarves are much more cuthroat than your typical Tolkien/D&D dwarf. They certainly weren't 'LG' ala DnD nor were they 'cutesy' Tolkien type either.

[Tale]

I watched the full PAX demo and I have to say I'm really impressed.

 

It might even be worth getting if all agency in the storyline is absent.

 

And you know why they have a low playrate? Cause people love their origin. But then would rather play as a human just to marry alistair or something. 

 

And that to Bioware means CUTTTTTT

I can kind of understand that. My first character was an elf, but to be honest here the non-humans are almost tacked on. The main plot is a human nation where humans are fighting humans for human reasons. And the one elven love interest is Zevran. The Dwarves and Elves get a large sidequest.

 

When a game is all about humans, I'd wager people will play as humans. I wish there were stats for Morrowind.

[NOK222]

I watched the full PAX demo and I have to say I'm really impressed.

 

It might even be worth getting if all agency in the storyline is absent.

 

And you know why they have a low playrate? Cause people love their origin. But then would rather play as a human just to marry alistair or something. 

 

And that to Bioware means CUTTTTTT

I can kind of understand that. My first character was an elf, but to be honest here the non-humans are almost tacked on. The main plot is a human nation where humans are fighting humans for human reasons. And the one elven love interest is Zevran. The Dwarves and Elves get a large sidequest.

 

When a game is all about humans, I'd wager people will play as humans. I wish there were stats for Morrowind.

 

Exactly, and now it's really weird that they chose Dalish for default canon. When a Cousland fits the story better. 

[anubite]

I got that feeling too. I did like the dwarf origin stories, but I never finished the game as a dwarf, because I was never compelled to play as one. And I don't think you get any opportunities to act like a drunken sod, so... there's that.

 

By far, for most RPGs, people play human. It's safe, it's relatable. It's only once you get comfortable in a setting, I think, that you begin to experiment with roleplaying as the other races. Of course, that's just my take, there are probably exceptions, but I really think Dragon Age as a whole would be more interesting if you weren't given the option to be human. If BioWare does want to push some kind of 'egalitarian' agenda, they really would be better off doing this - I think it would be very thrilling to play an oppressed/hated race in a fantasy RPG. Being given the option to play a city elf in DA:O never gave me the impression that I was discriminated against - well, past the first area of the origin story. 'cause, you know, I was a Grey Warden the whole rest of the game, my race never even came into the picture 98% of the time.

 

But if DA3 forced you to play Qunari/Dwarf/Elf in areas of the world where they are huned/murdered/discriminated? That not only presents compelling choices for players to act out in the game world, but it definitely forces players to roleplay and react to the world around them.

 

I also blame the lack of play rate on dorf/elf due to... the sameness. Why do I want to play as a long-eared human, or a short-drunk human, when I could just be... human? Qunari are a good addition to the race roster for DA3, because they are at least very aesthetically different from "human" - they have a different skin color, are bulkier, and have horn things, plus they have that odd religion - they're still human, but at least they stand out more (at least to me).

 

I really think races should be more distinct, aesthetically, especially at character generation. 

Edited September 4, 2013 by anubite

[Keyrock]

I got that feeling too. I did like the dwarf origin stories, but I never finished the game as a dwarf, because I was never compelled to play as one. And I don't think you get any opportunities to act like a drunken sod, so... there's that.

 

By far, for most RPGs, people play human. It's safe, it's relatable. It's only once you get comfortable in a setting, I think, that you begin to experiment with roleplaying as the other races. Of course, that's just my take, there are probably exceptions, but I really think Dragon Age as a whole would be more interesting if you weren't given the option to be human. If BioWare does want to push some kind of 'egalitarian' agenda, they really would be better off doing this - I think it would be very thrilling to play an oppressed/hated race in a fantasy RPG. Being given the option to play a city elf in DA:O never gave me the impression that I was discriminated against - well, past the first area of the origin story. 'cause, you know, I was a Grey Warden the whole rest of the game, my race never even came into the picture 98% of the time.

 

But if DA3 forced you to play Qunari/Dwarf/Elf in areas of the world where they are huned/murdered/discriminated? That not only presents compelling choices for players to act out in the game world, but it definitely forces players to roleplay and react to the world around them.

The thing that bothers me is that even when you are allowed to play a hated race, you generally really don't.  Since we're on an Obsidian Entertainment forum I'll use NWN2 as an example.  You can play as an orc or a tiefling, yet the game never treats you like an orc or a tiefling.  You might as well be a human.  I mean, the bulk of the game takes place in a predominantly human city.  I should think that an orc or a tiefling (they're freakin' demons for goodness sake) would not be able to just stroll about a human city with no repercussions.  I would expect to be cursed, spat upon, and, quite frankly, openly attacked, unless I took care to do some miraculous disguise work.  I mean, Neeshka gets some discrimination, but even that is extremely limited.  Some of the most fun I had was playing a hobgoblin character in a pnp D&D (AD&D 2nd ed) campaign years (decades) ago.  A good bit of the fun was the DM coming up with complications to myself, and the rest of the party, for that matter, because of my race, and the creative approaches and sometimes drastic measures we had to take because of it.

 

Obviously, when programming a video game, having people react to you very differently based on race (or gender) adds a whole other level of complexity to the game design, akin to a whole other group of factions with their own reputation system, so I understand why it's so rarely, if ever, implemented to any significant degree.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Keyrock

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Exactly, and now it's really weird that they chose Dalish for default canon. When a Cousland fits the story better.

I'd guess it is because they think it will lead to less throwbacks in the story, seeing as the other origins have a closer connection to the rest of the universe than the hippies isolated in the woods.

[Tale]

Or the Eluvian is scheduled to become super important.

It was in DAO, Witch Hunt, and DA2.

[anubite]

Right, making the game world react to the player's race choice is hard but I should think with enough budget and effort it should be possible, especially if the game is built around it from the ground up - which it honestly should be. It's a good conflict that's probably easy for players to relate to. If you're being bullied by people just because of your race, you'll probably be angry and emotional - that's what BioWare should want anyway. It adds more context and depth to the whole, "twirling mustache" vs "halo on your head" choice stuff BioWare tends to do. Do you take out your oppression on the world? Or do you try to reform it?

 

Now, if you're going to build a game where you can be not-oppressed or oppressed, that does add a lot of complexity, but it still could be easily done with a few variables here and there and a few if statements and a little bit of design... of course, the real issue is cost inflation by added voicework, I'm sure. We can't have that.

 

(this is why any serious RPG gamer should denounce BioWare for following and reinforcing this stupid standard of 'everything must be voiced' - it's absolutely unecessary for everything in an RPG to be voice; it's just not worth it)

 

Also, I would really advocate for stronger race design. I've played more obscure games where you get to play as a cyborg, robot, zombie, treant, werewolf, vampire, abomination, moleperson, mermaid, et cetera - where the chocie of your race deeply effects how you play. For example, molepeople can't see above ground and need to use special abilities to navigate in the sunlight (but can see at night/in the dark caverns). Naturally, I'm talking about an old text-based RPG here, but I can see this kind of gameplay being translated well into 3-D - where you get a fancy weird echo-location mode, or something, to use, while it's light out, making navigating the darkness fun while making navigating in the light a challenge, maybe even making light a 'dreadful thing to avoid' - I really like concepts like these that feed into roleplaying, it's where the game and the game world convey a sense of story, tension and weight without words of heavyhandedness.

 

Naturally, anything like what I'm describing takes time to build, takes effort to develop, and is not trivial to make fun and balanced, nevermind integrated into somekind of overarching narrative, but I've seen people hobble together basic games using nothing but words and a shoddy programming ability, I'm sure BioWare could pull something off like this if they really tried to.

 

This is what's really missing from Skyrim too - all of the racial abilities are so toned down and "eh?" that I just end up playing Nord all the time. What a bore! I can only hope people trying to emulate Skyrim's success will study it enough to see these gaping flaws and endeavor to give more context to the world you expect the player to explore.

[NOK222]

Those Red Templars seem like interesting enemies. But I hope they don't become too recurring of enemies. Like the three groups of enemies in ME3. 

[WorstUsernameEver]

Those Red Templars seem like interesting enemies. But I hope they don't become too recurring of enemies. Like the three groups of enemies in ME3.

As long as they don't have a ninja among their ranks that keeps beating you up in cutscenes. Yeah, I'm not over Kai Leng yet.

[Nepenthe]

 

 

 

I wonder if they're likely to use the Warden at all as an NPC? There are multiple outcomes where you'd expect him to play a part in the story if some of these events are bleeding over into Ferelden or are to do with Morrigan.

 

Unless part of this "Keep" thing includes redesigning your past PC's on the new engine, then no.

I could see it being part of the keep. I suppose alanshu could tell us if he stumbles into this thread.

 

The default setup is Warden = Sacrificed = Dead, yes? If so, I wouldn't really expect much if any content dealing with them, as it's likely for most people they will be dead, story wise.

 

Might be nice if you could have a statue or painting commissioned of the Great Hero, but whether he was an international great hero or just a local Fereldan one is a bit of an open question as well.

 

 

Y'all miss the memo about Dragon Age Keep? If they are willing to set up something like that, "default" should play a considerably smaller part in the future than it has.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Nepenthe