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Item Durability

crafting durability poll

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Poll: Item Durability (182 member(s) have cast votes)

What is your opinion on Item Durability in Project Eternity?

  1. Item Durability belongs in P:E and I like the mechanics from Update 58 (67 votes [36.81%])

    Percentage of vote: 36.81%

  2. Item Durability belongs in P:E but I would like different mechanics (post why) (30 votes [16.48%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.48%

  3. Item Durability does not belong in P:E (85 votes [46.70%])

    Percentage of vote: 46.70%

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#41
AstroZombie

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Not a huge fan of how the mechanic was presented, specially this part: "Specifically, every attack with a weapon degrades that weapon by one unit, and armor and shields are similarly degraded when the wearer is attacked." I think armor/shield degradation should be based on what kind of attack you've receive, not just on being attacked.

 

However, item degradation can presente interesting tactical options like spells that degrade or break equipment, fire and acid causing damage to the wearer and to the equipment over time, etc...



#42
centurionofprix

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And what about a separate budget for the stronghold, if accumulation of money is what item degradation is supposed to fix? Actually, why shouldn't people who don't spend on the stronghold have more money for other things?

 

(the most crucially, why does this have to be fixed with an intrusive gameplay mechanic? - but that was already brought up)


Edited by centurionofprix, 03 July 2013 - 04:03 AM.


#43
FlintlockJazz

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Heres a thought in regards to those who think one character should be enough to maintain everyone's equipment: who says they have the time or inclination to look after everyone's stuff? What, you expect them to be working away fixing all the armour while everyone else is around the campfire getting pissed? Look after your own damn sword bitches!
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#44
Kjaamor

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It might come down to the whole immersion versus gameplay thing again, but personally I have never felt repair mechanics contributed positively to gameplay. Perhaps they have mildly added to my experience in MMOs, but that's about it.

 

Ultimately, gameplay comes down to approaching situations with different chosen options or different levels of skill to a variable amount of success. To my eyes, repair simply comes down to "Either put stat points here or engage in multiple trips back to town". There's nothing skillful or tactical about it.

 

P:E could be the game whose resting and saving mechanics genuinely make this a tactical decision, however. But if they are going to try and do this they should be under no illusions of the repair mechanic's failures in past games.

 

Unless the team have a great concept to make this tactical, and are prepared to put the extra legwork in and risk player wrath by making repair a genuine concern, then I would say bail on it entirely.


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#45
Chrononaut

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Ultima Underworld style weapon breakage would be better


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#46
Zed

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I'm against it. Never have a game had durability without it being bothersome. Systems should support central aspects of the game, not add annoying micromanagement and nonsensical penalties.

 

I'm also against the proposed crafting system.

 

None of the things in the latest update feels "Infinity Engine game"-like.


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#47
FlintlockJazz

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It might come down to the whole immersion versus gameplay thing again, but personally I have never felt repair mechanics contributed positively to gameplay. Perhaps they have mildly added to my experience in MMOs, but that's about it.

Ultimately, gameplay comes down to approaching situations with different chosen options or different levels of skill to a variable amount of success. To my eyes, repair simply comes down to "Either put stat points here or engage in multiple trips back to town". There's nothing skillful or tactical about it.

P:E could be the game whose resting and saving mechanics genuinely make this a tactical decision, however. But if they are going to try and do this they should be under no illusions of the repair mechanic's failures in past games.

Unless the team have a great concept to make this tactical, and are prepared to put the extra legwork in and risk player wrath by making repair a genuine concern, then I would say bail on it entirely.


Durability is a delicate matter and it is usually done badly but I don't think they shouldn't try it if they want to give it a shot. They went with with KS to be able to do what they want, try new things and take risks that publishers would not normally let them try. To avoid doing something new or controversial because of fear of backlash from people who may end up liking it would be a shame and waste in my eyes.

#48
radioactivelullaby

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I wouldn't mind item degradation if it was just in the beginning of the game, but later on it would be annoying i guess. didn't non-magic weapons brake in baldur's gate? maybe something like that, but then again, is it worth implementing such a feature if it's only going to be a part of the early game..



#49
rjshae

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I'm pleased with the item degradation mechanic because of the element of realism it provides. But perhaps it should just be part of the expert mode? That way all the cheese-eating surrender munchkins will be happy.

:cat:


Edited by rjshae, 03 July 2013 - 04:40 AM.

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#50
GreatWizard

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Item breaking and repair should be here if it adds to the experience. This is an RPG with emphasis on story and tactics, so break mechanics need to tie in with one of those in a fun way. So either you add some random events which can break or damage some items (ie a ghost that makes all swords that strike it, rust) or you make it part of the tactics (with spells, abilities or items that damage equipped items). The important thing here is that those mechanics should be tied into the gameplay, and not a chore which doesn't depend on the gameplay and skill of the player.



#51
Nonek

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The more features the better, always thought it was rather well handled in Betrayal at Krondor. However I would like to add that maybe there should be certain top tier weapons and armour that do not degrade, or are self repairing. Used as a reward for thorough exploration or valorous deeds.


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#52
Acre

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Lay it on us with the item degradation, I say. Make boots worn down from travelling and make guns rust when exposed to salty sea air! Your belt loses durability whenever you switch weapons in combat and a broken belt makes switching slower. I'm not even kidding although you wish I were.

A lot of this, though, is dependent on how repairing works. If it's only done at camp areas that might help make it not busy-work like, but rather a strategic choice of what to repair for your next venture.



#53
KaineParker

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I'm intrigued by it. The thought if having to upkeep equipment is something I've always liked in P&P, because it makes you think before charging into a dungeon.

Two questions for any wandering devs:

1. Will magic items or rare material(like adamantium) items have different durability ratings than standard items?

2. Could you implement a sunder mechanic?

#54
Chrononaut

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Who would you even have a poll for game features anyway, what is this, design by democracy?

 

The main thing that could ruin the game is listening to backers too much.


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#55
JFSOCC

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I don't usually like item degradation, so why don't I mind it here?
For a few reasons.
1. it only affects items for which it makes sense
2. Items can be repaired indefinitely.
3. This might actually make it worthwhile and interesting to keep something you've crafted and customised early on, your signature weapon.
4. You will never lose an item.
5. An item will only become less useful if you have neglected it for way too long
6. There are alternatives to crafting for keeping your gear in order, but crafting becomes a skill with merit.
7. There's nothing wrong with gold sinks, let's face it, what's the point of loot if you can only collect it?
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#56
Sensuki

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I don't think any of us here expect them to change the mechanics based on a poll. This is just a thread+poll focused on this one point of the update that there appears to be a divide on, rather than doing it in the update thread.

They may note or ignore at their leisure. I'm sure they appreciate the feedback even if they disagree with it.

#57
Gfted1

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I guess the Crafting skill becomes a de facto default choice for front liners.


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#58
Jajo

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That way all the cheese-eating surrender munchkins will be happy.

:cat:

 

I'm glad that at least someone is thinking of us!



#59
SunBroSolaire

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I guess the Crafting skill becomes a de facto default choice for front liners.

No, because there isn't percentile damage reduction like in New Vegas or Dark Souls. As long as weapons don't get down to 0% durability, your character isn't penalized. So just repair your stuff in town between quests; you only need one crafter.

 

You could argue that there's a cost associated with not picking up crafting for frontliners, because they take the most abuse and therefore benefit the most from better degradation rates, which is a valid point, but there is also an opportunity cost for not picking up any other skill. I seriously doubt the small amount of cash you save by having to repair your equipment less frequently is enough of a benefit that it will overshadow other skills. That is only an ancillary benefit after all, while skills like stealth, or lockpicking or whatever are actually giving your character a primary advantage. So I would conclude that it is still suboptimal to have multiple crafters in your party.

 

Now that I think about it, I wonder how they'll handle other skills like lockpicking.



#60
Gfted1

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You could argue that there's a cost associated with not picking up crafting for frontliners, because they take the most abuse and therefore benefit the most from better degradation rates, which is a valid point, but there is also an opportunity cost for not picking up any other skill. I seriously doubt the small amount of cash you save by having to repair your equipment less frequently is enough of a benefit that it will overshadow other skills. That is only an ancillary benefit after all, while skills like stealth, or lockpicking or whatever are actually giving your character a primary advantage. So I would conclude that it is still suboptimal to have multiple crafters in your party.


I would counter this by saying; lets assume gear uses a 100% scale. Assuming players stay on the critical path they will encounter mooks that are within +/- 1-2 levels, which means they will land 95% of their attacks. If every attack/defense degrades armor/weapons by 1 point then I feel "repairs" will become quite the frequent and expensive endeavor. Especially as player progress to more expensive gear.





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