Dragon Age III / The Witcher 3 trailers. Impressions?

[Monte Carlo]

CD Projekt make the games they want to make, Bioware makes games their in-game monitoring metrics and sappy fans want them to make.

 

And, damn, it shows.

 

Am not a massive Witcher fan but it's got character and spirit and, yes, bewbs.

[Keyrock]

CD Projekt make the games they want to make, Bioware makes games their in-game monitoring metrics and sappy fans want them to make.

 

And, damn, it shows.

 

Am not a massive Witcher fan but it's got character and spirit and, yes, bewbs.

CD Projekt RED are one of the few developers that have that luxury of being able to do things on their own terms.  The other two I can think of off the top of my head are Valve and Blizzard because of the cash cows they have constantly filling their coffers (Steam and WoW respectively), even if Blizz licks Bobby Kotick's boots.  BioWare, unfortunately, is under the thumb of Dread Lord EArts.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Keyrock

[HoonDing]

Seems rather useless to compare CD Projekt and BioWare until the Poles work on an original IP of their own.

[licketysplit]

Seems rather useless to compare CD Projekt and BioWare until the Poles work on an original IP of their own.

 

Why? So they can conjure up another generic fantasy world? Their adapation is every bit as valid as Bioware's aping of Tolkien. And better written.

[NOK222]

I did like the fade tearing open. BTW I'm doing a playthrough of DAO with a load of mods. 

 

 

 

 

For example, this one has Flemeth have her DA2 battle mode look when you go kill her (or not). It also updates Isabela into her DA2 look.

Edited June 16, 2013 by NKKKK

[Cultist]

What retconning?

 

Morrigan was never confermend dead. In witch hunt she falls trough the mirror.

 

Same for Leliana. You defeated her (in a room with magical healing ashes), but her death was not confirmed. And don't even bring up the decapitation animation - I decapitate both Zevran and Howve, yet still managed to recruit one into my party after that and have a nice chat with the other.

 

Anders is a problem. Not only the personality change, but the tomeline makes no sense and given the choices he could be dead, with the templars or traveling with the commander - at the same time as he is in Kirkwall - and never even meeting Justice.

 

That IS retconning. In a fantasy world, you can bring everyone back in any way writer can imagine. I was talking about retconning just as an example of most "visible" discarded choice in the game.

[Zoraptor]

CD Projekt RED are one of the few developers that have that luxury of being able to do things on their own terms..

BioWare, unfortunately, is under the thumb of Dread Lord EArts.

 

Meh, that always comes up. For better or worse EA has only continued Bioware's direction, not altered it. Bioware did dlc before it became cool (NWN) went console and RPG lite with no influence from EA and produced ME1 and most of DAO without being owned by EA. The only change was rushing DA2, and that was at least partly Bioware's own fault for having DAO take so long that ME3 and DA2 on a normal cycle would have been near synchronised in production and release date- and that seems to have been fixed for DA3.

 

I like CDPR as much as the next guy, but it isn't like they just make the games they want to, they make the games they think will sell. They could have kept TW2 to the same formula as the first game and had (mainly) iso camera, vaguely diabloesque combat and the like, but went for a overhaul. Anyone who thinks that that was not influenced strongly by the decision to release on console need only look at the UI, and anyone who thinks that the decision to release on console was predicated on enlightening the unwashed console masses, cowering in the depths of their despair and degradation rather than making money is slightly naive- and if they really really wanted to do exactly what they wanted then yes, they would do original IPs. Cyberpunk and Wiedzim/ Witcher are licensed IPs with limitations to what can be done with them, their own IPs are more work, but there they could tailor stuff exactly as they want.

[licketysplit]

 

CD Projekt RED are one of the few developers that have that luxury of being able to do things on their own terms..

BioWare, unfortunately, is under the thumb of Dread Lord EArts.

 

Meh, that always comes up. For better or worse EA has only continued Bioware's direction, not altered it. Bioware did dlc before it became cool (NWN) went console and RPG lite with no influence from EA and produced ME1 and most of DAO without being owned by EA. The only change was rushing DA2, and that was at least partly Bioware's own fault for having DAO take so long that ME3 and DA2 on a normal cycle would have been near synchronised in production and release date- and that seems to have been fixed for DA3.

 

I like CDPR as much as the next guy, but it isn't like they just make the games they want to, they make the games they think will sell. They could have kept TW2 to the same formula as the first game and had (mainly) iso camera, vaguely diabloesque combat and the like, but went for a overhaul. Anyone who thinks that that was not influenced strongly by the decision to release on console need only look at the UI, and anyone who thinks that the decision to release on console was predicated on enlightening the unwashed console masses, cowering in the depths of their despair and degradation rather than making money is slightly naive- and if they really really wanted to do exactly what they wanted then yes, they would do original IPs. Cyberpunk and Wiedzim/ Witcher are licensed IPs with limitations to what can be done with them, their own IPs are more work, but there they could tailor stuff exactly as they want.

 

 

If they wanted to make a game primarily on the prospect of sales, they wouldn't choose an obscure and fixed Polish fantasy protagonist. You're trying to be dsimissive but you clearly have no experience with their games. Everyone wants to make a game that sells. Few have the balls to stick to something original. 

[Nonek]

I don't know Licketysplit I think Zoraptor is correct on the UI, that was obviously made for a controller, and CDPR have stated themselves that they are focused on an often overlooked demographic, the mature intellectual middle class male who has grown up with gaming. They are obviously using a fan favourite sales pitch, wherein they treat their customers with respect, and provide matchless support for their games, thus ensuring brand loyalty. I truly do not know about whether they wish to make their own IP's, as their line on the Witcher has repeatedly been that they make the games that they want to play. I can however imagine that right about know they're heartily sick of Sapkowski's protagonist, and looking for their recent successes to allow them some creative leeway.

 

Whether the share-holders are, well that's another matter.

[Zoraptor]

If they wanted to make a game primarily on the prospect of sales, they wouldn't choose an obscure and fixed Polish fantasy protagonist. You're trying to be dsimissive but you clearly have no experience with their games. Everyone wants to make a game that sells. Few have the balls to stick to something original. 

 

A licensed IP cannot be original. The backstory, relationships, world building etc is done by someone else, and a game based on a licensed IP uses these things rather than creates their own. Sapkowski may have created an original setting (albeit with a lot of obvious influences) but CDPR hasn't. The reason to use the licensed IPs is to get name recognition and not to have to build a world yourself, after all.

 

I'm not trying to be dismissive, I've enjoyed both Witcher games and have little to no doubt that I'll enjoy the third. It just won't be original, and CDPR ultimately has to function under the same limitations as everyone else (barring Valve, I wouldn't even include Blizzard to be honest) with respect to making a product that will sell rather than a product that is exactly what they would like. As an example, TW3 will have DRM on the on3- they may not like it to, but it will, if it didn't it wouldn't be on the system at all.

[Keyrock]

I was more referring to the fact that they can set their own deadlines and performance milestones.  They are not owned nor funded by a publisher (in fact they have a publisher as a subsidiary), and they have a steady flow of income from their subsidiary, GOG.  Thus, they can dictate their own terms on how the game should be made and when to release it.  Of course the market will, at least in part, dictate the direction of their product, that's just the nature of business.  At the end of the day the main goal for all developers, and I mean ALL developers, no matter how idealistic they try to make themselves seem, is to make as much money as possible.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Keyrock

[licketysplit]

 

If they wanted to make a game primarily on the prospect of sales, they wouldn't choose an obscure and fixed Polish fantasy protagonist. You're trying to be dsimissive but you clearly have no experience with their games. Everyone wants to make a game that sells. Few have the balls to stick to something original. 

 

A licensed IP cannot be original. The backstory, relationships, world building etc is done by someone else, and a game based on a licensed IP uses these things rather than creates their own. Sapkowski may have created an original setting (albeit with a lot of obvious influences) but CDPR hasn't. The reason to use the licensed IPs is to get name recognition and not to have to build a world yourself, after all.

 

I'm not trying to be dismissive, I've enjoyed both Witcher games and have little to no doubt that I'll enjoy the third. It just won't be original, and CDPR ultimately has to function under the same limitations as everyone else (barring Valve, I wouldn't even include Blizzard to be honest) with respect to making a product that will sell rather than a product that is exactly what they would like. As an example, TW3 will have DRM on the on3- they may not like it to, but it will, if it didn't it wouldn't be on the system at all.

 

 

Really? So who is telling them what kind of game to make?

 

You're argument as to whether what they or Sapkowski does is original is a long and seperate topic. But the immediate issue is: they aren't Bioware, they aren't Dice, they aren't Naughty Dog, they are completely autonomous in regard to the content they put in their games. The only restriction they have is the ESRB. No one is telling them what to do.

Edited June 17, 2013 by licketysplit

[Zoraptor]

Nah. They can't have Space Captain Geralt explore the cosmos in his spaceship boinking aliens, they're limited to what the source material and their licence allows. That isn't a matter of argument, it's a matter of fact. FACT! even.

 

They are not owned nor funded by a publisher (in fact they have a publisher as a subsidiary), and they have a steady flow of income from their subsidiary, GOG.  Thus, they can dictate their own terms on how the game should be made and when to release it.

They may be able to for TW3, but they certainly weren't totally free with respect to TW2- where they had Atari then NamcoB telling them to have things like securom on disk copies and regional pricing. That was very clearly and quite explicitly against the wishes of CDPR since they did pretty much everything they could to void it. Hopefully that will not be the case for TW3, but someone will be distributing it on disk and their on3 version at least will have to have drm on it, whatever they may want.

 

And when it comes to comparison with Bioware, while they do have to answer to EA it can hardly be said that they haven't had plenty of time for DA3- DA2 was launched 8 months prior to TW2, after all. If both are released in their approximated window DA3 will actually have had longer in development.

[NOK222]

Don't break the CDPR circlejerk guys

[Malcador]

Weird, thought everyone here had a dim view of The Witcher series.

[licketysplit]

Don't break the CDPR circlejerk guys

 

Wow, I thought the BSN was bad. Welcome to the club.

[alanschu]

A licensed IP cannot be original. The backstory, relationships, world building etc is done by someone else, and a game based on a licensed IP uses these things rather than creates their own. Sapkowski may have created an original setting (albeit with a lot of obvious influences) but CDPR hasn't. The reason to use the licensed IPs is to get name recognition and not to have to build a world yourself, after all.

I'm not trying to be dismissive, I've enjoyed both Witcher games and have little to no doubt that I'll enjoy the third. It just won't be original, and CDPR ultimately has to function under the same limitations as everyone else (barring Valve, I wouldn't even include Blizzard to be honest) with respect to making a product that will sell rather than a product that is exactly what they would like. As an example, TW3 will have DRM on the on3- they may not like it to, but it will, if it didn't it wouldn't be on the system at all.

 

 

 

I know there are some Witcher fans that have concerns because CDPR have very much bought into the console platform, something they weren't expecting.

[BruceVC]

 

Don't break the CDPR circlejerk guys

 

Wow, I thought the BSN was bad. Welcome to the club.

 

 

 

 

Come now lickety don't take it personally. Its just someone's opinion.

 

I think you are correct about CD Projekt Red and they have been able to create a gaming franchise around what the fans want and not just what would be good sales. They also are not as beholden to a large publishers as Bioware, these are irrefutable facts. But Zora and others are entitled to there opinion. Its the job of us to dispute what they are saying. That's why we have debates

Edited June 17, 2013 by BruceVC

[Gorth]

Yeah, where is the fun in quiet disdain? No fun in being silently smug, resting in the knowledge that my opinion is obviously superior. That would be depriving the rest of the world of my benevolent wisdom. Ergo, rejoice!

 

Or some such. Maybe I need to cut down on the coffee a bit. On the other hand, it *is* Monday.

[Nepenthe]

Gorth, but that would rob the playground of the "Superman is tougher than Batman!" discussions.

 

 

 

CD Projekt RED are one of the few developers that have that luxury of being able to do things on their own terms..

BioWare, unfortunately, is under the thumb of Dread Lord EArts.

 

Meh, that always comes up. 

 

Groupthink. While I get that some criticisms of a game like, say, DA2, are fairly universal, there's also this rather disingenious repeating of the same mutated half-truths over and over.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Nepenthe

[BruceVC]

Yeah, where is the fun in quiet disdain? No fun in being silently smug, resting in the knowledge that my opinion is obviously superior. That would be depriving the rest of the world of my benevolent wisdom. Ergo, rejoice!

 

Or some such. Maybe I need to cut down on the coffee a bit. On the other hand, it *is* Monday.

 

You know a serious point needs to be made when Gorthfucius arises from his slumber and speaks !!!

 

History has proven that its only a foolish civilisation that ignores his cryptic words of advice....

 

Edited June 17, 2013 by BruceVC

[licketysplit]

 

A licensed IP cannot be original. The backstory, relationships, world building etc is done by someone else, and a game based on a licensed IP uses these things rather than creates their own. Sapkowski may have created an original setting (albeit with a lot of obvious influences) but CDPR hasn't. The reason to use the licensed IPs is to get name recognition and not to have to build a world yourself, after all.

I'm not trying to be dismissive, I've enjoyed both Witcher games and have little to no doubt that I'll enjoy the third. It just won't be original, and CDPR ultimately has to function under the same limitations as everyone else (barring Valve, I wouldn't even include Blizzard to be honest) with respect to making a product that will sell rather than a product that is exactly what they would like. As an example, TW3 will have DRM on the on3- they may not like it to, but it will, if it didn't it wouldn't be on the system at all.

 

 

 

I know there are some Witcher fans that have concerns because CDPR have very much bought into the console platform, something they weren't expecting.

 

 

Of course there are concerns over that. I didn't expect it.

Edited June 17, 2013 by licketysplit

[HoonDing]

Reading Zoraptor's posts in this here thread in Francis Urquhart's voice is brilliant.

[TrashMan]

That IS retconning. In a fantasy world, you can bring everyone back in any way writer can imagine. I was talking about retconning just as an example of most "visible" discarded choice in the game.

 

 

Retconning is a change of an established FACT - usualyl somethnig important or intrinsic to a plot.

 

If something was never a fact to begin with, then it's not technicly a retcon.

[NOK222]

 

Don't break the CDPR circlejerk guys

 

Wow, I thought the BSN was bad. Welcome to the club.

 

It's ironic isn't it?