Update #45: FATE: Fulfillment, Arcanum, Torment, Egads!

[timobkg]

What I was hoping to see from the Let's Play videos is more commentary on what he thinks as a game designer - more behind the scenes info.  

 

For example, in the first video he mentioned how when they do voice over work with text, they break up the text into small chunks, so that people don't end up with a wall of text that they can quickly read paired with a slow, seemingly interminable, voice over.

 

I'd like to hear more of his thoughts on the game as a Game Designer - what works well, what doesn't, what he likes, what he doesn't like, how they do things similarly/different at Obsidian and why.  An edited video with a voice over pointing these things would be great.

[Shadenuat]

I am okay with Chris just singing his own tune and not caring a ****. I am sure that if he'll feel this is getting nowhere, he'll check on advice people are providing him with. He is just a stubborn bastard like that. Er, a stubborn debutante lady like that, I mean.

[DeathQuaker]

 

I don't mind if Chris Avellone puts up the full play video (although editing out repeat fights might be worth it), but I would humbly request that he a) reads the game manual (the game was NOT designed for people to just boot up and go)

But what if he feels spoiled by reading the manual?

I am not sure what the manual could spoil, it's just information on how to play the game (there is a difference between a manual and a guide or walkthrough). I understand the joy of discovering stuff on your own, I'm an exploration based gamer at heart. But if I don't, effectively, know how to do anything in a game, then I can't explore, and then I can't discover anything, so I'm going to do what it takes to learn how to play. Again, Arcanum wasn't designed, like most games are now, to be played manual free. It's an advancement in game design--designers make sure the play and mechanics are accessible and learnable as you go along, usually through an ingame tutorial and tool tips. What he's doing is the equivalent of skipping through the opening tutorial having never played the game before. It's his prerogative to do so, but if he spends 90 minutes fighting the same undeafeatable monster not getting anywhere and is getting frustrated about it, it might behoove him to, indeed, explore other options so he can get into the meat of the game. (And I really do want to see him get into that "meat" because once he gets to certain areas, his charisma-based character will get to do some really fun things.)

However if he is truly enjoying fighting the same low-level monster he can't defeat over and over and over again, more power to him, and I look forward to future installments of his cursing at Virgil, because that's frankly entertaining enough on its own.

Edited March 6, 2013 by DeathQuaker

[Sacred_Path]

I was being sarcastic, mostly. But then, you can learn so much by just looking at the screen. If you want to hit the broad side of a barn with a dagger, you need to put points into the Melee skill, for example. The manual doesn't explicitly tell you that.

 

OMAIGAHD SPOILER

[rjshae]

Are we there yet? ... umm, nope.

[JFSOCC]

First post, long-time lurker...

 

I was eagerly awaiting the Arcanum playthrough. Tim Cain delivered on the promise that games don't need to be about heroes saving the world, so it should be fun to watch MCA discover all that's inside.

 

However, after this second Let's Play update, I must voice my concern about his "natural playthrough" shown in real-time, with no cuts. It's been 2 updates and 1 and 1/2 hours and Chris still hasn't reached Shrouded Hills, which is just the very first stop on the long road to solving the mysteries of Arcanum. At this tempo, it' going to take him 200 hours to get to the end, and probably more... Cut to the chase, only put up 10-minutes edited videos of him doing something that actually matters, please! The poll that was put up here on the forum ended with "10 minute YouTube chunks" winning - I voted for that option, too. However, that option doesn't simply mean that we prefer 10 minute chunks of a longer video (that's just a technical difference, not a content difference), we want the gameplay edited down to that size, with only the juicy stuff shown! The first update was decent because it included the character creation and other general commentary, and that was nice to hear. But this second one was an almost complete waste of time. I would be completely accepting that instead of live commentary, the commentary would be dubbed later on, to allow for more insight on the events playing out.

 

I want Chris to be in the  thick of Arcanum's excellent story and location-packed world, not fumbling around with the UI and getting his party killed. The clueless berk (see what I did there?) doesn't even know anything about the byzantine character advancement system, with mastery levels and attribute requirements and all that jazz. I would advise him to consult the excellent manual, spoiler-free and written in period speech, really fun to read.

I'm enjoying this playthrough a lot so far. I willing to take the time to watch it all. I don't want to see any cuts.

[Arontala]

Yeh I'm enjoying this playthrough, no editing!

 

Also I love the virgil sass a lot, it's how I play RPG's.  Whatever bad happens, my companions are always to blame.

 

Whenever something good happens, all hail king me and my cleverness!

[ryukenden]

I want to suggest that Project Eternity and Torment should make direct references to each other since they are both the same genre and setting. Numenera should have a world with some note from PE and vice versa, after all Numenera does contain a large number of realms/world in their lore. Why not make both of these work. Think of it as a minor crossover.

Edited March 7, 2013 by ryukenden

[condottieri]

compromise: Tim Cain or someone else gives mr Avellone enough pointers to get to shrouded hills and that he really shouldn't try killing those wolves just yet?

 

Otherwise, Cain sits besides Avellone for 30 minutes to serve as helpline in case of problems; after 30 mins are up it's a solo playthrough again.

[Shadenuat]

Otherwise, Cain sits besides Avellone for 30 minutes to serve as

helpline in case of problems; after 30 mins are up it's a solo

playthrough again.

50/50: Chris says what he's going to do, and we're cutting two random options

Call a friend: Chris can call Tim once per game session

Help of the audience: We all vote of the best course of action in game at specific encounter

[Auxilius]

The unexpected: Chris ragequits/breakdowns/wallows in sorrow and shame.

At this point, I expect to see a punching bag named Virgil somewhere in P:E with this note if you hover the mouse over it "damn son, is t'is satisfying to sweat dat fat n' punch dat bag".

Or a tombstone.

[condottieri]

At this point I'm all but certain an npc called Virgil will meet a painful demise somewhere in project eternity. 

[Rubicon]

I am so incredibly proud to be a contributor to both projects. The video posted on the Torment website with the child CEO versus inXile perfectly represents how I feel, as a consumer, about major corporations buying up properties for their names and then taking creative control away from those who made the name special to begin with. I look forward to getting the new website up and running so that I can continue to follow updates as they come, and I hope to help Kickstart many more projects in the future so that I get the games I love, while keeping the makers of the games I love employed! To the genre!!

[Archmage Silver]

Looking forward to the fulfilment site!

 

Edit: Also backed Torment: Tides of Numenera.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Archmage Silver

[IndiraLightfoot]

The day the fulfillment site launches will bring back the sweet happy memories of backing PE at KS, bt just like Silver, I've now also backed Torment over at Kickstarter, and that to an intrepid and money-defying degree. These are great times for CRPGs. Hooray for that! 

[rjshae]

I want to suggest that Project Eternity and Torment should make direct references to each other since they are both the same genre and setting. Numenera should have a world with some note from PE and vice versa, after all Numenera does contain a large number of realms/world in their lore. Why not make both of these work. Think of it as a minor crossover.

 

I suppose they could both use the same loopy inter-dimensional kickstart autoconveyor gadget to travel somewhere and leave it a mystery as to where it came from.

[Thingdo]

I want to suggest that Project Eternity and Torment should make direct references to each other since they are both the same genre and setting. Numenera should have a world with some note from PE and vice versa, after all Numenera does contain a large number of realms/world in their lore. Why not make both of these work. Think of it as a minor crossover.

 

I like this idea a lot to be honest. 

 

I wouldn't want to see it as part of the main quest line or any major quest though. I think I would prefer it put in as something of a non-canon easter egg quest that was hidden somewhere.

[Darth Trethon]

OMG...between PE, Wasteland 2 and now this new Torment game......my life is ruined, I will never sleep again.

 

Also can't wait for the fulfillment site to go up.

[Tamerlane]

OMG...between PE, Wasteland 2 and now this new Torment game......my life is ruined, I will never sleep again.

 

Also can't wait for the fulfillment site to go up.

And don't forget...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MiMjQwd2VE

[rjshae]

^^^^ It's wickedly cool that KS projects are willing to show us early alpha demos like this.

[Potz]

I recenly wanted to ract to Chris' playing sessions of Arcanum.

 

Early summary : I loved all of it, certainly because I expected something different.

 

 

Now I'll write down some points I wanted to (quickly) discuss/share, even if I fear that it's been done thousand of times already (NO SPOILERS):

 

After watching the first Video (the 50 mins one), I was really pleased. I had my fair share of time screaming to my screen 'up here !', 'check his pockets !' ... but in the end I realized I hardly ever watch people playing solo games, and it was very refreshing to see someone else's reactions to this game without prior knowledge. Made me want to stride  the lands of Arcanum again, so I unleashed an halfling arsonist ... but that's another fiery story.

 

When I finished watching the first video, I incidently moved to the comment section on youtube and I was really disappointed by the amount of negativity (yeah I know .... 'Welcome to the internetz'). I was sad to see how many people don't want to just let Chris play and have his fun, it was like reading comments of over protective parents : 'Do this , do that, it's for your own good'. 

 

What surprised me most in those videos, it's that Chris is human (astonishing, isn't it ?) and have the same perks as us common human players (hoarding tendancies paired with poor inventory management skills, ...) BUT I didn't expect him to have awkward interface interaction (I can't recall my first 'intercourse' with Arcanum's interface ... have I been clunky?).

In fact here's what I expected : Chris making design-wise commentaries every 10 secs, distributing 'gaming industry fun facts' all the way while killing wolves by the dozen, critizing the game interface and sharing his impressions/frustration .... but at the end of the day, I'm glad  he's having his fun  and I hope he'll got as much as I did 'back in the days' (because that's what a 'let's play' is suposed to be : someone having fun, no?).

 

Finally I will make a list of some tips for arcanum (NO SPOILERS):

- Using the F1~F6 keys can be usefull for managing your party, in spite of the occasional clunkyness of the reactions. F7 is quicksave, F8 is quickload, the ever most dangerous allies.

- Arcanum's manual (which you have with the GoG version in the arcanum download section) is a must read (WARNING : there is a  playthrough chapter If I remember correctly)

- Bashing things up in Arcanum is a real science : don't underestimate the risks and the results.

- As many people mentionned : map travelling is botched a bit, don't discourage.

 

That would be all for the moment I think.

[condottieri]

I recenly wanted to ract to Chris' playing sessions of Arcanum.

 

Early summary : I loved all of it, certainly because I expected something different.

 

 

Now I'll write down some points I wanted to (quickly) discuss/share, even if I fear that it's been done thousand of times already (NO SPOILERS):

 

After watching the first Video (the 50 mins one), I was really pleased. I had my fair share of time screaming to my screen 'up here !', 'check his pockets !' ... but in the end I realized I hardly ever watch people playing solo games, and it was very refreshing to see someone else's reactions to this game without prior knowledge. Made me want to stride  the lands of Arcanum again, so I unleashed an halfling arsonist ... but that's another fiery story.

 

When I finished watching the first video, I incidently moved to the comment section on youtube and I was really disappointed by the amount of negativity (yeah I know .... 'Welcome to the internetz'). I was sad to see how many people don't want to just let Chris play and have his fun, it was like reading comments of over protective parents : 'Do this , do that, it's for your own good'. 

 

What surprised me most in those videos, it's that Chris is human (astonishing, isn't it ?) and have the same perks as us common human players (hoarding tendancies paired with poor inventory management skills, ...) BUT I didn't expect him to have awkward interface interaction (I can't recall my first 'intercourse' with Arcanum's interface ... have I been clunky?).

In fact here's what I expected : Chris making design-wise commentaries every 10 secs, distributing 'gaming industry fun facts' all the way while killing wolves by the dozen, critizing the game interface and sharing his impressions/frustration .... but at the end of the day, I'm glad  he's having his fun  and I hope he'll got as much as I did 'back in the days' (because that's what a 'let's play' is suposed to be : someone having fun, no?).

 

Finally I will make a list of some tips for arcanum (NO SPOILERS):

- Using the F1~F6 keys can be usefull for managing your party, in spite of the occasional clunkyness of the reactions. F7 is quicksave, F8 is quickload, the ever most dangerous allies.

- Arcanum's manual (which you have with the GoG version in the arcanum download section) is a must read (WARNING : there is a  playthrough chapter If I remember correctly)

- Bashing things up in Arcanum is a real science : don't underestimate the risks and the results.

- As many people mentionned : map travelling is botched a bit, don't discourage.

 

That would be all for the moment I think.

Pretty much my reaction. Obviously I'd like him to charbuild in a direction I find 'cool', but I'm pleased he'll have a fresh perspective on the game (I can't wait until he gets to the "bridgekeeper" - you know the one). I do want him to get accustomed to the UI more quickly, but other than that I've been pretty satisfied. 

 

However, what I will say is that the shorter videos format doesn't really suit me. Then again, democracy has spoken, so ... 

 

edit: backseat gaming is an inherent problem with let's play, in my experience. You might pull off a magistral stunt in a difficult part of the game, been masterful in navigating a difficult dialogue tree, nobody will discuss that element of a playthrough. Instead, everyone is going to complain about how you missed looting that one chest or how that offhand comment that is personal opinion is just wrong. Welcome to the internet, welcome to youtube, I guess?

Edited March 10, 2013 by condottieri

[Barothmuk]

 

I want to suggest that Project Eternity and Torment should make direct references to each other since they are both the same genre and setting. Numenera should have a world with some note from PE and vice versa, after all Numenera does contain a large number of realms/world in their lore. Why not make both of these work. Think of it as a minor crossover.

 

I suppose they could both use the same loopy inter-dimensional kickstart autoconveyor gadget to travel somewhere and leave it a mystery as to where it came from.

Ick. God I hope not.

 

Cross overs are more often than not horribly contrived and hurt the setting more than they help it.

[Nonek]

If handled poorly I agree they can be immensely fourth wall breaking, however I think Mr Sawyer does this quite well, I was pleasantly surprised by another branching of Ravels incarnations being present in the dockside prologue of Icewind Dale 2, and it fit seamlessly.

[LordCrash]

Omg, much time has been elapsed since I was here the last time.... Nice update anyway.