Mass Effect Trilogy

[Enoch]

Actually on-topic:  I've reached the breathing space after the first leg of the final mission.  The cutscenes make me roll my eyes just like the endgame-ish cutscenes in the first ME game did!  (Also, is there some way to pause a cutscene that I have gotten this far without noticing?  I think I've tried everything, but I also managed to get to the penultimate mission before realizing that my companion outfits gave them bonuses, so I could probably have missed something.) 

 

I do miss ME2's companion variety.  I usually tend to dislike whatever characters Bioware pushes at the audience the hardest, but I also usually find folks to enjoy a bit further down the companion roster.  ME3 was a bit different in that all the companions erred on the side of being inoffensive and uninteresting.  Nobody really inspired Alistair-level disdain (not even Tali-- although I did have to protect her people from their own idiocy, it was a welcome relief to not have to rescue her yet again)  But nobody really interested or entertained me to the degree that a Jolee, Shale, Wrex, or Mordin did. 

 

Garrus and Kaiden are the same rather bland guys they've always been.  The new guy needed a lesson in dealing with superior officers, but he didn't bother me. The EDI-Joker thing was entertaining only to the degree that telling them "no" was satisfying.  (I will give Bio credit in that they do occasionally do give you that opportunity to vent at a character who the game otherwise seems to assume you'll like.  The "I put up with a lot of **** from you because you're a good pilot, but you need to shut the hell up and do your job" chat would've only been better if Shep had deliberately called him "Lieutenant Moreau."  That was almost as good as finally telling Morrigan how insane she was.) 

 

Which leaves Javik and Liara.  And, while I do enjoy ME2-3 Liara far more than that naif who was in ME1, the most entertaining part about her was her interaction with Javik.  So he's my favorite of the companions.  Although, were he in ME2, I doubt he'd crack the top 3. 

Edited February 1, 2013 by Enoch

[Calax]

She shows up pregnant, but the dlc ends with the baby coming out looking like Garrus.

As I've said before (and talked Alan's ear off about at various points) I personally think that a player romance option showing up with a kid (for me it's Liara because of the "I'm BI!" option and the fact you can theoretically write through not-having-romance to fill out all story checkboxes) would be one HELL of a way to slap the player with consequences. I'd certainly get noticed by everyone, and I think it'd end up causing a lot of players to react differently to situations.

 

But then I've also got my dark business heart which crafted the above business plan for ME3 so *shrugs*

[Malcador]

Heh, the Renegade options for that would be funny.   

[Nepenthe]

Actually on-topic:  I've reached the breathing space after the first leg of the final mission.  The cutscenes make me roll my eyes just like the endgame-ish cutscenes in the first ME game did!  (Also, is there some way to pause a cutscene that I have gotten this far without noticing?  I think I've tried everything, but I also managed to get to the penultimate mission before realizing that my companion outfits gave them bonuses, so I could probably have missed something.) 

 

I do miss ME2's companion variety.  I usually tend to dislike whatever characters Bioware pushes at the audience the hardest, but I also usually find folks to enjoy a bit further down the companion roster.  ME3 was a bit different in that all the companions erred on the side of being inoffensive and uninteresting.  Nobody really inspired Alistair-level disdain (not even Tali-- although I did have to protect her people from their own idiocy, it was a welcome relief to not have to rescue her yet again)  But nobody really interested or entertained me to the degree that a Jolee, Shale, Wrex, or Mordin did. 

 

Garrus and Kaiden are the same rather bland guys they've always been.  The new guy needed a lesson in dealing with superior officers, but he didn't bother me. The EDI-Joker thing was entertaining only to the degree that telling them "no" was satisfying.  (I will give Bio credit in that they do occasionally do give you that opportunity to vent at a character who the game otherwise seems to assume you'll like.  The "I put up with a lot of **** from you because you're a good pilot, but you need to shut the hell up and do your job" chat would've only been better if Shep had deliberately called him "Lieutenant Moreau."  That was almost as good as finally telling Morrigan how insane she was.) 

 

Which leaves Javik and Liara.  And, while I do enjoy ME2-3 Liara far more than that naif who was in ME1, the most entertaining part about her was her interaction with Javik.  So he's my favorite of the companions.  Although, were he in ME2, I doubt he'd crack the top 3. 

Agree. Ashley's a bit less vanilla than Kaidan, but at least with my import had minimal dialogue. *sigh*

[Enoch]

I think what I'm missing is the sense-- which saturated ME2 and was the case at least with ME1 Wrex-- that these folks were earnestly dangerous.  Miranda and Jacob were working for TIM; Samara brought merciless justice based on a Code that only she really understood; Grunt and Jack were the results of mad-scientist experiments; Mordin was a mad scientist; every Zaeed story ends with "everybody died but me"; even Garrus was coming off his "I'm Batman" episode. 

 

Not one of the joinable folks in ME3 has that edge.  The closest thing is EDI, in that we're all dead if it decides that it wants to go back to its creators at Cerberus or join its AI brethren with the Reapers or Geth.  But that'd be a pretty unfair end to the narrative, so its loyalty is pretty much plot-armored. 

[Serrano]

I think what I'm missing is the sense-- which saturated ME2 and was the case at least with ME1 Wrex-- that these folks were earnestly dangerous. Miranda and Jacob were working for TIM; Samara brought merciless justice based on a Code that only she really understood; Grunt and Jack were the results of mad-scientist experiments; Mordin was a mad scientist; every Zaeed story ends with "everybody died but me"; even Garrus was coming off his "I'm Batman" episode. 

 

Not one of the joinable folks in ME3 has that edge.  The closest thing is EDI, in that we're all dead if it decides that it wants to go back to its creators at Cerberus or join its AI brethren with the Reapers or Geth.  But that'd be a pretty unfair end to the narrative, so its loyalty is pretty much plot-armored. 

 

 

If that's what you're looking for in RPG companions then perhaps you should ask Maria if you could join her D&D group?

Edited February 1, 2013 by Serrano

[Enoch]

 

I think what I'm missing is the sense-- which saturated ME2 and was the case at least with ME1 Wrex-- that these folks were earnestly dangerous. Miranda and Jacob were working for TIM; Samara brought merciless justice based on a Code that only she really understood; Grunt and Jack were the results of mad-scientist experiments; Mordin was a mad scientist; every Zaeed story ends with "everybody died but me"; even Garrus was coming off his "I'm Batman" episode. 

 

Not one of the joinable folks in ME3 has that edge.  The closest thing is EDI, in that we're all dead if it decides that it wants to go back to its creators at Cerberus or join its AI brethren with the Reapers or Geth.  But that'd be a pretty unfair end to the narrative, so its loyalty is pretty much plot-armored. 

 

 

If that's what you're looking for in RPG companions then perhaps you should ask Maria if you could join her D&D group?

 

Not quite sure what you're referring to there.  Anyhow, I don't mean to suggest that such is the only way to make a character interesting.  It was just something appealing about many ME2 characters that was absent in ME3. 

 

 

 

So, I have now finished the game.  And, yeah, that was pretty lame.  The "choice" as I saw it amounted to either "do your goddamn job" or "trust the word of the insane AI that created the Reapers in the first place."  And, as a gameplay matter, the whole "spend 5 minutes limping forward at the slowest possible speed" didn't heighten the drama or tension.  It just irritated me. 

 

The final persuade options with TIM were greyed-out, but I don't really see what "winning" that would've gotten me.  I guess Anderson could have survived? 

[Serrano]

I was refering to this, but didn't mean anything by it. Sorry if it came across badly. 

 

 

 

I
believe one of the (lower) difficulty settings disables friendly fire.
 I always play on "Hardcore D&D" so I always have to watch out for
friendly fire.

 

Hee.

 

For
the last seven months, I've been playing a low level DnD campaign with
friends. I don't have any single-target spells, and my wizard has burned
and blasted the other PCs to 0 HP about a dozen times now.

 

It's really the best part of playing the wizard.

 

I get what you mean about mystery and danger making the characters more interesting, although I still liked the ME3 cast very much. I think if the game had been longer it would have helped, you don't get to spend long with anyone if you're trying to mix up your squad every mission and even if you keep them with you start-to-finish everyone has such a short personal mission compared to the ones in ME2 which probably spoiled us.

[TSBasilisk]

I think you need a maxed out Paragon or Renegade option to get the persuade, which I think is a lot harder in this game. The persuade lets Anderson live, yeah.

 

There is a third choice if you get 4000+ points, or something like that. It somehow merges biological and synthetic life so they can coexist... which is so bizarre, you can understand why some people refer to it as a Space Jesus moment.

[NOK222]

Anderson doesn't live, ever. 

[Enoch]

There is a third choice if you get 4000+ points, or something like that. It somehow merges biological and synthetic life so they can coexist... which is so bizarre, you can understand why some people refer to it as a Space Jesus moment.

The "extended cut" changes lowered that threshold a bit, such that all 3 options were open to me, despite not doing any of the multiplayer or subsequent DLC. (There's also the "you lose" option of shooting the kid in the head, which I tried on a whim on my first pass. The nearest save point, though, is before all that "walking incredibly slowly" stuff, so that was totally not worth it.) I elided the "Contol" and "Synthesis" options together in my earlier post because I felt that they were both equally speculative and well beyond the scope of the job I was trying to accomplish.

 

Shep is a soldier, not a philosopher, and she's certainly not the type to trust a murderous ancient space AI when told that she can upload her brain or fundamentally alter the nature of all life throughout the galaxy. She found her target and pulled the trigger. (Then she reloaded her game and found the better target.)

Edited February 3, 2013 by Enoch

[Azure79]

How'd you like the gameplay? 

 

I enjoy ME2 and ME3 gameplay a lot. It's a lot of fun pulling off combos and sending enemies flying/stumbling everywhere. A lot more fun than conventional 3rd person shooters for me. 

[Nepenthe]

I think you need a maxed out Paragon or Renegade option to get the persuade, which I think is a lot harder in this game. The persuade lets Anderson live, yeah.

 

There is a third choice if you get 4000+ points, or something like that. It somehow merges biological and synthetic life so they can coexist... which is so bizarre, you can understand why some people refer to it as a Space Jesus moment.

No, you need to pick every available paragon/renegade option when talking to TIM (and consistently, so always the one or the other), and there's one in the first dialogue with him on Mars that is easy to miss.

 

 

 

There is a third choice if you get 4000+ points, or something like that. It somehow merges biological and synthetic life so they can coexist... which is so bizarre, you can understand why some people refer to it as a Space Jesus moment.

The "extended cut" changes lowered that threshold a bit, such that all 3 options were open to me, despite not doing any of the multiplayer or subsequent DLC. (There's also the "you lose" option of shooting the kid in the head, which I tried on a whim on my first pass. The nearest save point, though, is before all that "walking incredibly slowly" stuff, so that was totally not worth it.) I elided the "Contol" and "Synthesis" options together in my earlier post because I felt that they were both equally speculative and well beyond the scope of the job I was trying to accomplish.

 

Shep is a soldier, not a philosopher, and she's certainly not the type to trust a murderous ancient space AI when told that she can upload her brain or fundamentally alter the nature of all life throughout the galaxy. She found her target and pulled the trigger. (Then she reloaded her game and found the better target.)

You could always get the three main endings without DLC or MP, it was the hidden additional "destroy" epilogue that required (requires? I still don't know if the threshold for that was changed) MP to boost the readiness.

[Nonek]

So if i'm getting the final scenes straight (watched them on Youtube,) the Reapers are present to ensure that organic species do not advance so far as to create something like unto themselves, that could potentially wipe out all organic life. But what about all the spare retail lying outside the mass relay network? As we know from the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy, space is big, really big, and didn't the first games codex state that the mass relay network barely covered a tiny fraction of the Milky Way? How do they ensure the species out there for the last however many million years do not advance, and that the synthesis and control endings affect them?

 

I'm honestly curious whether this has been covered, as it seems to be a rather large flaw in the Reapers scheme. Would they even have the time in fifty thousand years to scour all the Milky Way for any advancing life, and without their mass relay network could they?

 

Damn i'm doing it now, I shouldn't expect a logical cohesive plot, the two games were good for what they were ie brainless action and power fantasy escapism, thus they succeeded in their objective.

[NOK222]

Good one, that would make a good plot for ME4. 

[Enoch]

How'd you like the gameplay? 

 

I enjoy ME2 and ME3 gameplay a lot. It's a lot of fun pulling off combos and sending enemies flying/stumbling everywhere. A lot more fun than conventional 3rd person shooters for me.

I enjoyed it, mostly. And I really don't enjoy any shooters that don't give me the "tactical pause" option that is in the ME games. I played as a Sentinel, kept my gear weight low, spec'ed everything to max recharge rate, and Warp/Overload/Throw'ed everything I saw.

 

On the other hand, I felt like the encounter design was a little half-hearted. Nearly everything was simply "survive a wave of 5 types of Cerberus, 5 types of Reaper, or 4 types of Geth." And apart from the ultra-slow banshee missile and a couple combat drones on the Geth missions, none of them used any biotic/tech powers on me, as far as I could tell. I haven't done a precise count, but that feels like a significant step back from ME2's range of opponents. And there was certainly nothing like, say, the sun-and-shadow game on Haestrom, the high winds on Thane's recruitment mission, or the big Thresher Maw fight. Without the fun bits of variety, the game got somewhat repetitive.

 

 

 

I think you need a maxed out Paragon or Renegade option to get the persuade, which I think is a lot harder in this game. The persuade lets Anderson live, yeah.

 

There is a third choice if you get 4000+ points, or something like that. It somehow merges biological and synthetic life so they can coexist... which is so bizarre, you can understand why some people refer to it as a Space Jesus moment.

No, you need to pick every available paragon/renegade option when talking to TIM (and consistently, so always the one or the other), and there's one in the first dialogue with him on Mars that is easy to miss.

 

[snip]

 

You could always get the three main endings without DLC or MP, it was the hidden additional "destroy" epilogue that required (requires? I still don't know if the threshold for that was changed) MP to boost the readiness.

 

 

My final EMS was something like 3500, and I didn't see any indication that the "destroy" results I got were less than optimal. The kid said that the damage would be low because the crucible was in pretty good condition, or something like that.

 

As for the TIM dialogue, what do you gain by convincing him? I seem to recall those first persuasion options on Mars being greyed out at the time, so that's probably why I couldn't talk him down.

Edited February 3, 2013 by Enoch

[NOK222]

 

As for the TIM dialogue, what do you gain by convincing him? I seem to recall those first persuasion options on Mars being greyed out at the time, so that's probably why I couldn't talk him down.

Nothing really except him saying "I tried Shepard" before offing himself. You get the same Anderson scene if you shoot him when you fail the speech check. But instead the Illusive Man's last words are him admiring Earth. 

 

I never tried the full renegade option, I think it plays out differently. 

Edited February 3, 2013 by NKKKK

[Azure79]

Enoch: Yeah, I always thought the game would be more tense if the enemies had similar abilities as yours and used them in the same way. Enemy vanguards could charge you and knock you from cover, engineers could disable your shields etc. 

 

I think they could do it somewhat in ME1 as I remember being biotically disabled a few times. 

 

I always thought the biggest plot hole in ME3 was why the Reapers just didn't relay themselves to the Citadel and take control of the Mass Relay network once they reached the Milky Way. 

Edited February 3, 2013 by Azure79

[Nepenthe]

My final EMS was something like 3500, and I didn't see any indication that the "destroy" results I got were less than optimal. The kid said that the damage would be low because the crucible was in pretty good condition, or something like that.

 

I'll "spoiler" this, though it's probably pretty widely known by now

 

With high-enough EMS in "destroy", the EE has a slightly modified cut-scene and there's an additional cutscene before the end titles roll in both versions... which show that Shepard has actually survived the ending.

 

 

That + the Leviathan DLC makes me even more convinced that the Starchild is insane and lying, and Destroy - even with the contrived sacrifices - is the way to go.

Edited February 3, 2013 by Nepenthe

[Humanoid]

Enoch: Yeah, I always thought the game would be more tense if the enemies had similar abilities as yours and used them in the same way. Enemy vanguards could charge you and knock you from cover, engineers could disable your shields etc. 

 

I think they could do it somewhat in ME1 as I remember being biotically disabled a few times. 

 

I always thought the biggest plot hole in ME3 was why the Reapers just didn't relay themselves to the Citadel and take control of the Mass Relay network once they reached the Milky Way. 

In ME1, to avoid the various biotic effects throwing you out of bounds (not that it didn't happen occasionally anyway), any biotic attack on you produced the one single effect - that weird sort of paralysis-writhing-on-the-ground effect for a few seconds.

[cyberarmy]

Enoch: Yeah, I always thought the game would be more tense if the enemies had similar abilities as yours and used them in the same way. Enemy vanguards could charge you and knock you from cover, engineers could disable your shields etc. 

 

I think they could do it somewhat in ME1 as I remember being biotically disabled a few times. 

 

I always thought the biggest plot hole in ME3 was why the Reapers just didn't relay themselves to the Citadel and take control of the Mass Relay network once they reached the Milky Way. 

 

Bolded part.

 

After ME1 i always tought Reapers go Citadel first even not directly. But they didn't and even after they captured it (another great loss of game not showing us this part...should be a Citadel mission where we try to evacute it via space or that secret portal) they didnt turn off mass relay...

 

I mean they can easly avoid that last (shallow...)space battle so easily but they did not and more dissapointing thing is they took Citadel with them to Earth, right into our hands...

 

Most of the playerbase hate ME3s ending but there are lots of dissapointing moments way before getting there... Another great potantial wasted.

[Zoraptor]

I mean they can easly avoid that last (shallow...)space battle so easily but they did not and more dissapointing thing is they took Citadel with them to Earth, right into our hands...

That's justifiable- they want to fight and wipe out the sentient species' forces after all. Getting them nicely gathered into one convenient location is great for them as they can wipe out the fleets then turn off the relays if they want and take their leisure on the planets.

 

Post ME1 the Citadel is clearly less useful to them though, since Sovereign stuffed things up there so monumentally.

[Nepenthe]

 

Enoch: Yeah, I always thought the game would be more tense if the enemies had similar abilities as yours and used them in the same way. Enemy vanguards could charge you and knock you from cover, engineers could disable your shields etc. 

 

I think they could do it somewhat in ME1 as I remember being biotically disabled a few times. 

 

I always thought the biggest plot hole in ME3 was why the Reapers just didn't relay themselves to the Citadel and take control of the Mass Relay network once they reached the Milky Way. 

 

Bolded part.

 

After ME1 i always tought Reapers go Citadel first even not directly. But they didn't and even after they captured it (another great loss of game not showing us this part...should be a Citadel mission where we try to evacute it via space or that secret portal) they didnt turn off mass relay...

 

I mean they can easly avoid that last (shallow...)space battle so easily but they did not and more dissapointing thing is they took Citadel with them to Earth, right into our hands...

 

Most of the playerbase hate ME3s ending but there are lots of dissapointing moments way before getting there... Another great potantial wasted.

Coz after ME1, the citadel no longer controls the mass relays. Even after the Reapers capture the Citadel, the relays work just fine. No plot hole there.

[NOK222]

Neohente, since when? I don't recall hearing that. 

[Raithe]

Oh wasn't that the whole point of Shepard getting to that point where he uploaded the program from Ilos that stoped Saren summoning the other reapers? It basically was the hardcode virus doohickey. Or something to that effect?