Feats

[TRX850]

There's no mention of feats on the Wiki yet. I'm hoping/guessing it's something that will be implemented in one form or another. In the meantime, let's discuss feats we'd like to see in Project Eternity. I'll start. (And I'm using 3E terms here).

 

 

Thug

- Add STR or INT bonus (whichever is highest) to all intimidate checks.

- Bonus to crafting and deploying Thrown/Grenade-like/Splash weapons.

 

 

Extortion [General Feat]

- Prerequisite: Thug feat.

- Like the pickpocket skill, but make an intimidate check against friendly or neutral commoners.

- Success = A few GP or item.

- Failure = Victim turns hostile (or alerts authorities). Automatic failure on second successful attempt.

- Usage: Selected. 1/Day per 4 ranks of intimidate.

 

 

Dutch Courage [General Feat]

- Prerequisite: Thug feat.

- Quaff an ale and gain a temporary +1 bonus vs fear, +1 Taunt, +1 damage.

- Penalty: -1 AC, -1 Concentration, -1 Intelligence

- Quaff wine or spirits for a +2 or +3 respective bonus (and -2 or -3 penalty).

- Need to rename "Dutch" to something more game specific.

- Multiple usage subject to intoxication.

 

 

Summon War Dog [General Feat]

- Prerequisite: Thug feat.

- Summon savage dog that goes berserk in battle.

- Stats scale with character level.

- Usage: 1/Day

 

 

What feats would YOU like to see in Project Eternity?

[Ieo]

They haven't gotten into the specifics, but the latest information is Update 36.

[JFSOCC]

As a Dutchman I protest!

 

 

the wine should be the smaller bonus, we're a nation of beer drinkers!

(though I can't stomach the dreg)

[TRX850]

As a Dutchman I protest!

 

the wine should be the smaller bonus, we're a nation of beer drinkers!

(though I can't stomach the dreg)

 

Ah, sorry, yes. I knew it would come up, which is why I suggested a name change.

 

 

Dutch courage

 

 

noun, Sometimes Offensive.

courage inspired by drunkenness or drinking liquor.

Origin:

1805–15

 

 

1805. Before my time really.

[rjshae]

Well, they could start by getting rid of the name 'feat'. The word 'talent' seems more appropriate.

[Ieo]

Well, they could start by getting rid of the name 'feat'. The word 'talent' seems more appropriate.

U36, at least that is covered:

As players advance their characters, they have the ability to choose class-specific abilities and more class-neutral talents (more like perks or feats) to customize their character capabilities.

[TRX850]

"My talent is drinking beer and resisting fear!" said the barbarian to the vampire.

 

 

(and why is the quote function currently broken ?)

[rjshae]

Looking at the perks in the OP, I think I see one issue there: my understanding is that the developers are not leaning toward social skills like Intimidate. Your character's thuggish nature would come across just from the way that you respond to dialogue choices.

 

"Dutch Courage" (sometimes called "Liquid Courage") seems like a reasonable perk; you gain some type of performance benefits from being inebriated -- perhaps an improved willpower and the ability to ignore "miss" wounds.

 

The ability to summon a war dog... well, that might be crossing over into class-specific abilities a little too much.

 

I tend to prefer taking perks that don't just replicate something that you could gain anyway just by advancing in level. Thus, I don't care for skill bonuses, but I do like unique tactical abilities.

Edited January 18, 2013 by rjshae

[TRX850]

The thuggish behaviour is something that would suit fighter/rogue types, at least in an archetypal sense, and those classes traditionally are not able to summon animals without magical means, so that's where the logic for that originated.

 

Someone in another post questioned the inclusion of alcohol in previous games, where you couldn't really do anything with it except become intoxicated.

 

And the actual skills and benefits I listed are using previous 3E terminology, so I meant take the idea behind the feat/talent and convert it into P:E terms.

 

Ultimately, talents need to prove useful, otherwise they become fluff. On the other hand, if they simulate a perk that can be achieved another way, then it comes down to choosing between a character who can provide that perk from say, spellcasting, or just selecting a talent for a non-spellcasting class that provides a similar outcome.

[.Leif.]

Well, they could start by getting rid of the name 'feat'. The word 'talent' seems more appropriate.

I feel this is an important start. They may be taking a lot of inspiration from Dungeons and Dragons along-side many historic or fantasy sources, we don't need a copy+paste of SRD logic. I feel it would be useful to use other games (Such as D&D) as a good comparison for scaling. I'd like a Background trait to give me bonuses and slight changes because of my character's history as well as one for his or her personality. Charming Adept, cunning merchant, shy thief... etc.

 

That said, I like where you're going with fleshing out the sort of Pathfinder-ish tree for the Thug. I don't feel classes should have a racially or culturally named final talent though, unless it was special to that culture or race.

Edited January 18, 2013 by .Leif.

[Halberd]

It would be cool if we could get feats without levelling up.

 

i.e you talk to a hunter and he gives you advice on hunting and you get a 1+ damage bonus against certain creatures or etc. etc. you get the basic idea

 

I know that in KOTOR 2 you could get bonuses for having conversations with your companions and in the Dragon Age games your level of influence/rivalry with your companions effects their attributes/abilities.

 

And I agree that the name should be different than feats.

Edited January 18, 2013 by Halberd

[Alexjh]

I am all in favour of feats/talents or whatever you want to call them, but the ones in the original post are examples of things that I would rather that feats didn't do:

 

The Thug one would be better as two separate feats, one for the bonus to intimidate, one for the grenade-like bonus ("Bombardier" or something perhaps?) because the two don't have any particular relation beyond a thematic one, and so it's effectively giving you less character choice by lumping them together.  Effectively, its saying you cannot make a character who is good at violent intimidation who isn't good at grenades.  While you may say "but in that case they are getting the grenade part for free, why would they complain?", but, remember that a character creator is about players character concept, and so forcing a character to have features they don't want you are denying them that freedom of concept.

 

The Extortion one is more problematic - in general a feat/talent shouldn't give you an option that you should by all rights have anyway.  Anyone who can speak or write has the option to to extort anyone, so saying that in this world you can only do so if you have a particular feat is artificial.  What the feat could do is give you a bonus to your roll when doing an extortion check, and perhaps change an average extortion so that you now get more money for every point you beat their "extortion save" by, rather than just a flat rate.  So in other words, this feat should be about enhancing a pre-existing ability.

 

The Dutch Courage one I like the general concept of, but just needs a tiny bit of refining - it doesn't really need that "thug" prerequisite, although a pre-requisite of some sort probably is a good idea just to avoid getting entire parties of drunkards, perhaps a previous "resist poison" feat?  I'd also definitly prefer it if it involved literally buying/finding alchohol and drinking it, rather than just an MMO style automatic button which assumes you have unlimited drink on you.  You could even have a second level of Greater Dutch Courage which increases your bonuses.  Obviously a name change to (insert random Kingdom in the PE world) Courage would be needed.

 

The Summon War Dog one I'm not a fan of, I really don't care for characters having the ability to randomly make allies appear unless it makes sense for their class, particularly non-magical ones.  Where does this Wardog come from?  Why does it only appear once a day?  Where is it the rest of the time?  This is a similar thing to the extortion one, in that I don't like arbitary powers which only work on "game logic". What I'd perhaps replace it with is an an ability like Animal Combat Trainer (or something better worded) so that any animals fighting along side you, whether they be allies, animal companions, purchased pets or whatever get bonuses to hit, damage, defense and whatever.  Pre-requiite being a certain amount of Natural Lore or Animal Empathy or some skill that is nature themed any you have something that makes sense and is useful.

 

As for what would be other good feats.... obvious ones like proficiencies in weapons, armour, shields, but perhaps also in certain elemental of "form" magics so Magic Proficiency: Cold, or Magic proficiency: shields.  Really for the core classes I think 3e covered it pretty well, but I think the outlying classes (Druid, Monk, Cipher, Chanter etc) there is probably a bit of room for some interesting feats.  I really liked those bonus animal forms in IWD2 for Druids so if Druids retain shapeshifting that'd be an obvious one for with a couple of slightly mroe exotic forms, similarly Monks could learn a few exotic moves that do thigns like increase their range, make them harder to hit etc, while Chanters could learn new chanting techniques (probably not actual specific chants, as they'd probably be better off as things learned automatically in levelup or found in the world) but perhaps enhancing existing ones or even like a "power attack" version where you can have a small radius but greater power or bigger radius but less.  

[TRX850]

All good points Alexjh. I had various reasons at the time to describe them the way I did. They're certainly not meant to be considered absolute, and as always are open to scrutiny.

 

Some were inspired by comments from other threads, and a need to address the background feats option. Mixing and matching is also desirable. I just put the thug prerequisite in to demonstrate that it could be a feat chain, but with a few caveats could indeed be omni-class talents.

[Jobby]

Feats/talents are definitely something i'd like to see, it would be nice if they weren't completely tied to xp aswel, perhaps joining different factions could provide bonuses although this is skewed if you join the warriors guild and suddenly your mage has a shield bash talent, perhaps pick one character to represent your group for each faction,  i also like the idea of mentoring npcs as i've stated in other threads. 

 

Dutch courage is a fantastic idea for a perk though, not so keen on the thug prerequisite however, sounds like an unfortunate stereotype to me lol. 

[TRX850]

The Extortion one is more problematic - in general a feat/talent shouldn't give you an option that you should by all rights have anyway.  Anyone who can speak or write has the option to to extort anyone, so saying that in this world you can only do so if you have a particular feat is artificial.  What the feat could do is give you a bonus to your roll when doing an extortion check, and perhaps change an average extortion so that you now get more money for every point you beat their "extortion save" by, rather than just a flat rate.  So in other words, this feat should be about enhancing a pre-existing ability.

 

If you combine the Thug background feat with Extortion you do gain a bonus to your intimidate check. It uses STR or INT, whichever is highest. So you can "puff up" and flex your muscles, or look them in the eye and use words as weapons. It's an abstract form of confidence and/or bravado. I also thought about scaling with either level or how successful the die roll was, but it seemed to be a bit too exploitative at higher levels. Marching around villages and extorting 30gp from some stable boy seemed a bit much.

 

The idea came from the discussion that gold and loot might be a scarce commodity in P:E, but I think that ended with a resounding "let's wait and see" answer.

Edited January 18, 2013 by TRX850

[TRX850]

Feats/talents are definitely something i'd like to see, it would be nice if they weren't completely tied to xp aswel, perhaps joining different factions could provide bonuses although this is skewed if you join the warriors guild and suddenly your mage has a shield bash talent, perhaps pick one character to represent your group for each faction,  i also like the idea of mentoring npcs as i've stated in other threads. 

 

Dutch courage is a fantastic idea for a perk though, not so keen on the thug prerequisite however, sounds like an unfortunate stereotype to me lol. 

 

I like the idea of a Shield Bash talent. The "Sword and Shield" fighting style in BG2 could have done with something like this. How would it be triggered though?

 

- An enemy rolls a critical miss against you?

- You enter a defensive mode, and automatically roll to shield bash an enemy after they complete their full attack?

- You auto-roll to shield bash an enemy that attempts to flank you on your shield (off hand) side?

 

That last point could come in handy when enemies attempt to run past you to your spellcasters/archers.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

I suggest that all characters are limited to two feats, as normal - except of course, any quadrupeds, who of course get four feats. Further feats can only be got as a result of extreme magical mutation.

 

Serious mode: If we have feats/perks/talents/wossnames, let's not call them feats, or I'll have to repeat the awful joke above. And that would be very, very bad.   

[Juneau]

I like feet..... wait, FEATS!

 

Seriously, I've seen feats in one form or another in many games over the year and 75% the time they add a fantastic little twist to your character or the game itself. What I would like the ability to custom design your feat *within reason*.

 

ie.

2x exisitng feats could be

- stealhy attacker - can stealth after attacking, improved detection BONUS to backstab

the other

- ranger of wilds - speed boost after attacking, increased range BONUS to critical strikes

 

Now say you wanted to be a stealth ranger? Both of those have an aspect you like idea of but on there own not perfectly suited to your 'ideal' char. Make you own.

 

Choose the name : Basilisk

2x Xlvl traits

- Speed bonus after firing arrow

- Ability to stealth after attacking

1x Ylvl traits

- When stealthed in combat game a 1% bonus to avoiding detection.

 

 

Daft idea, i know it's not exactly the same as feats and traits can be / are two different areas but just a thought I wanted to throw into the conversation on customising it.

[J.E. Sawyer]

Talents are our equivalent of feats.  In addition to gaining them through leveling (currently every three levels), you can also gain talents (often unique) from quests and story/NPC interactions.

[TRX850]

Hi Josh, is there any way that talents can be "smoothed out" so that instead of a sudden +2 or +3 bonus towards something every 3 levels, it's more like +1 per level so that the perception is one of regular advancement rather than big chunks?  Just wondering.

[AGX-17]

There's no mention of feats on the Wiki yet. I'm hoping/guessing it's something that will be implemented in one form or another. In the meantime, let's discuss feats we'd like to see in Project Eternity. I'll start. (And I'm using 3E terms here).

 

Dutch Courage [General Feat]

- Prerequisite: Thug feat.

- Quaff an ale and gain a temporary +1 bonus vs fear, +1 Taunt, +1 damage.

- Penalty: -1 AC, -1 Concentration, -1 Intelligence

- Quaff wine or spirits for a +2 or +3 respective bonus (and -2 or -3 penalty).

- Need to rename "Dutch" to something more game specific.

- Multiple usage subject to intoxication.

 

You know anyone can get drunk, right? The Dutch aren't particularly known for their drinking excesses, so far as I'm aware (being of Irish descent, I openly challenge you to a drinking contest.) I hear more about Tulips in regard to the Nederlands than alcohol. You can't make any liquor or beer or wine out of a Tulip, can you? Besides, not everyone is an angry drunk. Some people are happy drunks, some people are funny drunks, some people are stupid drunks, some people are horny drunks, etc.

Edited January 21, 2013 by AGX-17

[J.E. Sawyer]

Hi Josh, is there any way that talents can be "smoothed out" so that instead of a sudden +2 or +3 bonus towards something every 3 levels, it's more like +1 per level so that the perception is one of regular advancement rather than big chunks?  Just wondering.

 

We're intentionally designing advancement-related upgrades to feel "chunkier"/more coarsely granular.

[Tsuga C]

We're intentionally designing advancement-related upgrades to feel "chunkier"/more coarsely granular.

 

Good. This way we'll definitely notice an improvement in skill/feat "X" when we choose to add points to it.  Positive, noteworthy feedback works for me.

 

[aVENGER]

A somewhat related question, will PE also have Fallout-style background traits in addition to talents?

 

For reference, background traits are optional, can only be picked at character creation and have both advantages and disadvantages. Personally, I'd like to see something akin to "Good Natured" or "Small Frame". Nothing as unbalancing as "Gifted" though.

[Lephys]

A somewhat related question, will PE also have Fallout-style background traits in addition to talents?

 

For reference, background traits are optional, can only be picked at character creation and have both advantages and disadvantages. Personally, I'd like to see something akin to "Good Natured" or "Small Frame". Nothing as unbalancing as "Gifted" though.

 

I LOVED those traits. But, yeah, there were the handful that kinda made you tilt your head like a puppy. Like Gifted.

 

But, specifically, I liked things like Heavy-Handed and Finesse. Finesse increasing your critical chance, but decreasing the average damage you deal. You still get a bonus either way... It wasn't like you get +50% more crits, but -50% combat damage. It was more in consistency. You COULD'VE been doing 10 damage on every hit, and critting for 30 once every 15 shots/hits, but now you're doing 7 per hit, and critting for 25 damage 3 or 4 times in every 15 hits. It had to do with playstyle, and started affecting things when you start making combat decisions. "Okay, I'm more likely to crit, so who should I go for first?"

 

Not to mention that criticals had the chance of knocking people down or crippling them, etc. So, even if your criticals and your regular hits averaged out to the same amount of damage per combat encounter, you still changed up the playing field a bit with how your character performed if you took Finesse.