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Do you like PE Paladin class concept?


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Reading the description, PE's "paladin" is basicly a warlord. A charismatic general. That's it.

 

It really doesn't have the "feel" of a paladin at all.

They might as well simply call the class warlord of something else.

 

Of course, you might ask what makes a paladin a paladin? Divine powers? Well, not necessarily.

 

At least to me, being part of a religious order, a brotherhood with oaths and rules to follow - that gives more of a right "vibe".

Think Templars on DA:O. They weren't paladins. Yet they felt very much like them.

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I wonder if the historical concept of a palatine is more what PE draws from, "warlord/charismatic general" sounds pretty much spot on.

I like that. The holy warrior archetype is probably my least favourite in all fantasy games. Bah.

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10f3tpl.png

 

It's pretty simple, a Paladin is a highly stricted figure (Call it Saint) who speaks through swords instead of words. He's not regulated by oaths nor rules. He's a Son of his God.

 

Angels are pretty much Paladins. In fact, the whole idea behind the paladins, is to somehow resemble their holy brothers.

 

a5i3nt.jpg

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I severely dislike the "God's Warrior" archetype that Paladins usually are. A person who has decided to become a charismatic and chivalrious leader by his own whim rather than because God told him so is a lot more interesting. Speaks more about what kind of person he is rather than being another brainwashed zealot.

Edited by Hobo Elf
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I'd strongly disagree with the " He's not regulated by oaths nor rules." That's just a fighter, to me, though I don't think they necessarily have to be good, they should certainly lean lawful in so much as they are a class about gaining the trust of the men and women who fight beside him, and you can't do that by being chaotic and whimsical. To me the concept of Paladins has always tied back to the Knights of the Round table, not necessarily the best fighter on the field technically, but powered by their beliefs in the same way that a barbarian is powered by his rage and with the power to spread that to those around them, via either spells or pure charisma depending on the setting.

 

I'm not sure if you added the word paladin to Icewind Dales chaotic good alignment or you found it that way?

 

They might not always be in the right, but if, say, one says he'll defend a bridge from a horde of monsters, he'll stand on that bridge until either all the monsters are dead, or he is. Certainly not some "pious cop who doesn't play by the rules" as a standard, although they may certainly only play by the rules they personally agree with or have sworn to.

 

A good example of a contemporary Paladin character in my eyes would be Captain America - ie. a character who is certainly dangerous, but whose most potent weapon is arguably that he makes those around him up their games and feel the importance of their cause.

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From my point of view, a good example of a Paladin would be the figure of David from the Holy Scriptures. David was even called the Paladin of the Weak.

 

Being a Valencian like myself, I could even say the El Cid fits the descrpition quite well, but I'm afraid he murdered too many people in his "crusade" against the moors.

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I wonder if the historical concept of a palatine is more what PE draws from, "warlord/charismatic general" sounds pretty much spot on.

 

 

This.

 

The only reason i use paladins in IE games that they can use Holy Avengers. Nothing more :) They are better in third edtion games but still they are just warrior clerics for me.

I dont mind Obi changing the into Warlords.

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I think it all depends on when you first heard/saw a Paladin. For me it was in History, in school and from memory they were just the very best warriors, in really heavy armour.

 

Think English - King Arthur - His Knights of the round table (best of the best) - To me, historically these could also be referred to as Paladins.. I have no idea where the notion of divine powers came into play to become common practice. So for me - A Paladin can be what ever they want it to be, though a warrior in heavy armour makes sense.

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I like it. They are more like knights now instead of a poor fighter cleric hybrid that didn't really make sense. I'm sure you'll still get Paladin orders they'll just be more Knightly types now.

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I have a hard time pulling away from the idea of a 'holy warrior' as paladin. They don't have to have divine powers or a lawful alignment, but they do have to be answering a calling and be highly moral (whatever morals those are). I do understand why they are changing the way the class works. As many others have said, the paladin was really just a fighter/cleric with poor access to spells in D&D. It makes sense to make the two very different, especially when the game is new and doesn't have the classes D&D has. I'm just hoping for flavor text that places in the world I'm used to, otherwise that's going to be quite an adjustment. I also might wonder why the name paladin was chosen if there's no 'holy' connection.

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They're obviously going to be 8th-9th century Carolingian knights who got lost on their way to Spain...

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They're obviously going to be 8th-9th century Carolingian knights who got lost on their way to Spain...

 

Lost in another world, ey? :D I could see that, yeah. Get Harry Turtledove on that, he'll sort you out!

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10f3tpl.png

 

It's pretty simple, a Paladin is a highly stricted figure (Call it Saint) who speaks through swords instead of words. He's not regulated by oaths nor rules. He's a Son of his God.

 

Angels are pretty much Paladins. In fact, the whole idea behind the paladins, is to somehow resemble their holy brothers.

 

 

 

I'm curious as to why you would place the Paladin title over the Chaotic Good alignment description - Paladins were always restricted to Lawful Good in the D&D based CRPGs I have played??

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For me, Paladins held some appeal because they are honor bound to "do the right thing". I could definitely live with them being chivalrous knights, or even samurai who follow the bushido. On the other hand, the general concept of a potentially fanatical individual who rigidly follows a religious (or other) creed is very unappealing. I'll have to see how they are implemented in the game to see if I want to play one.

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Here's the PE Paladin description from the wiki:

 

Paladins are extremely devoted, often fanatical, soldiers who have pledged themselves to a chosen cause, combining the zeal of a priest with the ascetic discipline of a monk. They have founded many elite fighting forces, from the original Darcozzi Paladini, a two thousand year-old order of palace guards, to the fledgling Fellows of St. Waidwen Martyr, zealous defenders of the Godhammer pilgrim trail. Often found at the vanguard of many conflicts, paladins are natural leaders and have the ability to quickly assist their allies with targeted commands. A paladin's commands can stave off impending death, overcome fatigue, or hasten the charge to close breached defenses. And though they are not always pledged to the service of a god or gods, paladins are so singularly focused on their chosen cause that their souls are continually creating a wellspring of spiritual energy from which they can blast groups of foes in their immediate vicinity. Despite their often stoic presence and explosive combat style, paladins work best alongside allies. When isolated, they can be vulnerable, especially against singular powerful foes[1].

 

This sounds quite interesting to me and I suspect I will try this class altho I'll probably recruit one first - I wonder if there will be more than one possible Paladin comapanions... :thumbsup:

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For a religious knight brand paladin (not the P:E necessarily) I do like the idea of some limited magical abilities (lay on hands, smite, turn undead, immunity to fear etc) but I'd say the idea of Paladins as spellcasters isn't ideal. If we are getting that from some of the Arthurian Knights (Galahad and Lancelot particularly) it makes sense for them to have some limited ability to perform wonders, but not necessarily in the form of casting literal spells. I'd rather prefer a system a little like D&D sorcerers but applied to abilities, where they can perform a limited number of "miracles" from a selection per day, unlocking new ones as they level up.

 

Perhaps you might even earn the ability through particularly valorous deeds to perform a greater miracle. It'd be VERY hard and rare to earn them, doing something in such a way as to have the absolute perfect outcome using only the methods sanctioned by your deity. But once you have one in hand it's basically a get out of jail free card, it wouldn't be an automatic victory, but it might grant you near invulnerability for a single battle or ressurect your entire party when all hope is lost or even be a direct divine intervention to protect some innocents you have sworn to protect.

 

Of course this is based on the religious aspect which isn't fundemental to the P:E class.

 

I think it's interesting to see what falls within the classes in terms of non-explicitly classed characters, and taking the paladin as a front line fighter who is dedicated to a cause and inspires others through their charisma, we get:

 

- The Knights of the Round Table

- Jedi

- Captain America

- Superman

- A Jihadi leader

- Samurai (but not necessarily Ronin)

- Arguably several of the Star Trek captains

 

Any other additions?

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i want paladins to be complete bigots who dont comprehend grey areas and do more evil than good in the name of good

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i want paladins to be complete bigots who dont comprehend grey areas and do more evil than good in the name of good

 

Like the Knight Templar?

"We have nothing to fear but fear itself! Apart from pain... and maybe humiliation. And obviously death and failure. But apart from fear, pain, humiliation, failure, the unknown and death, we have nothing to fear but fear itself!"

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i want paladins to be complete bigots who dont comprehend grey areas and do more evil than good in the name of good

 

Like the Knight Templar?

yes, but they dont have to villains

furthermore, this article also explains monotheistic god's behaviour irl

Edited by thracian

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He once was alive, but now he's dead.
The last woman he bedded turned out to be a man
And crying in shame, off a cliff he ran.

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I'm curious as to why you would place the Paladin title over the Chaotic Good alignment description - Paladins were always restricted to Lawful Good in the D&D based CRPGs I have played??

 

It simply fits me general view of a Paladin. I wouldn't view them as lawful at all, that's why I hated Baldur's soo much.

 

- The Knights of the Round Table

- Jedi

- Captain America

- Superman

- A Jihadi leader

- Samurai (but not necessarily Ronin)

- Arguably several of the Star Trek captains

 

All those are governed by a political institution which use a false religious/philosophical image.

 

-The Knights of the Round Table: First World Order, World Peace, The Light of the World... Hmm, reminds me of something.

-Jedi: Corrupted by their own laws, they never sought the true source of the force (Midi-Chlorians), that's why none of them resurrected but one, Qui Gon (Which could easily be the only true "Paladin" figure).

-Captain America: A guy who operates under the United States of America with the President at his side? Give me a break.

-A Jihad leader: Murderers with a political background, same as the Crusaders (Obeying the Throne of Rome?)

-Samurai: These guys are the worst examples of a Paladin.

-Star Trek Captains: Guys who follow the Federation of Obey us or you'll be Destroyed.

 

What are we really aiming for here?

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I like that they are doing something new and getting rid of the religious/ goody two shoes overarching themes. This was dead weight anyway and made the class unnecessarily narrow. If you still want your paladin to support a specific faith, maybe there will be quests to that effect. If the main character has any influence on the stronghold you get, a paladin's stronghold could be a very efficiently run fortress. I'd like that.

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i want paladins to be complete bigots who dont comprehend grey areas and do more evil than good in the name of good

 

Like the Knight Templar?

yes, but they dont have to villains

 

Neither do Knights Templars. There are plenty of cases in which they fill the role of anti-hero or anti-villain, rather than pure villain.

"We have nothing to fear but fear itself! Apart from pain... and maybe humiliation. And obviously death and failure. But apart from fear, pain, humiliation, failure, the unknown and death, we have nothing to fear but fear itself!"

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