Fat acceptance in Project Eternity

[YourVoiceisAmbrosia]

Don't forget about speciesism here. I'm going to protest to Obsidian about organism inequality unless every species known to man is represented equally.

[Hypevosa]

Unless food is, for some reason, extremely plentiful to the point people overeat like we have now, fat would only be found in the extremely affluent and wasteful/gluttonous. Not necessarily EVIL but wasteful and gluttonous - two features that sometimes feature in evil people like gang bosses, or tyrants, etc.

Edited November 3, 2012 by Hypevosa

[Sacred_Path]

I want to see adventuring companies with real health problems and severe psychological dysfunctions. A boy can dream, right?

Edited November 3, 2012 by Sacred_Path

[curryinahurry]

Actually, anyone with a sedentary lifestyle can get fat. I agree that in the PE game world (pre-industrial), that would most likely be the wealthy, but it could also be shopkeepers.

 

The fact is that if you take an accounting of an adventurer's typical day; walking in armor carrying 40-60 lbs of gear, hiking, horseback riding, exploring caves, stabbing monsters in the face, etc., you're looking at burning 5000-7000 calories a day. For an overweight character to keep from losing weight, he/she would have to consume 7000 - 10000 calories a day. That's 10 pounds of roast mutton washed down with a gallon of mead.

[Jojobobo]

I want to play a morbidly obese Orlan - so fat they can barely move and have speed penalties. He'd be a barbarian, and when he was raging he'd roll down hills into people's legs.

Edited November 3, 2012 by Jojobobo

[Continuum]

I'll say it would definitely be nice if P:E goes for general realistic body types and not being ridiculously stereotyped in any ways, including all the fat people being jolly, lazy, gluttonous, whatever. A more common issue is the female figures... please do not make them barbie dolls in chainmail bikinis. Realistic proportions and armor/outfits that actually seem functional, for everybody, please. Not saying their shouldn't be attractive characters, just that they not look like they were designed by a 14-year old boy.

[Darth Trethon]

I'll say it would definitely be nice if P:E goes for general realistic body types and not being ridiculously stereotyped in any ways, including all the fat people being jolly, lazy, gluttonous, whatever. A more common issue is the female figures... please do not make them barbie dolls in chainmail bikinis. Realistic proportions and armor/outfits that actually seem functional, for everybody, please. Not saying their shouldn't be attractive characters, just that they not look like they were designed by a 14-year old boy.

 

Realistic for what setting? Realistic for what you're likely to see in a WallMart full of people that have never faced hardship beyond paperwork? The modern generations think that a fantasy setting has to reflect real life when that makes no sense at all....people in a semi-medieval setting such as PE's where the industrial revolution hasn't even started that never knew of the comforts of electricity, AC and television that always had to be prepared to fight for their lives not just physically but also mentally and spiritually against forces of magic would be a lot more fit than your "realistic" couch potato that is all too common these days.

 

So....fat people....yeah they're easy prey for the wilderness and bandits and such. Barbie dolls in chainmail bikinis....they can probably deliver a stronger punch than you this since they're actually fit so they are more than welcome in PE.

[Gyges]

In the beginning i was exhilarated that a developer was going to listen to the fans on how they wanted the game, now i hope they have the sense not to. Dear Obsidian, dont listen to most of what we are saying, i assure you we are all quite mad here.

[Boof]

I'd say good troll if this wasn't one of the few places where people warped enough to be serious about a thing like this didn't gather.

[Shadenuat]

Mmmmm bacon

[Thangorodrim]

A range of character portraits is desirable but in general the game avatars are pretty small and don't favor one body type over another ... I think people do sometimes get too hung up on social agendas in every form of media there is ... I would like to see them deviate from the cultural misogynistic stereotypes of woman in these games more than I would societal elements like body type ...

 

the number of people who would be classified as "fat" is really more of a modern age problem ... in medieval days you didn't have too many fat people except for the indolent wealthy types because everyone else had large amounts of daily activities and not a lot of food (that tends to make you thin ) ... tramping around the landscape is actually pretty good exercise (especially if you are lugging around all that loot and armor ) ... maybe you can let a character be fat but cut their movement rate in half and reduce their encumbrance allowance by an equal amount ... that would allow people to utilize the alternate body style but also give them some realistic penalties associated with it

 

However, since that would be difficult and they could never institute a mechanism to lose the weight once you assigned it I think they are better off giving chubby portraits and avoiding full figured avatars

[AGX-17]

To Obsidian Entertainment and whomever else it concerns,

 

As a fat ally, I am very much concerned about how body image will be portrayed in your upcoming title Project Eternity. Too often cRPGs equate obesity to gluttony and reinforce stereotypes that associate traditionally unattractive qualities with evil. This reliance on hackneyed tropes both demonstrates a lack of narrative depth and ultimately castigates loyal fans. Human bodies come in many different shapes and sizes, and I'd like the character creation process to reflect this fortunate reality. Perhaps PE could even provide social commentary on these serious issues by having one of the companions experience body image issues throughout the campaign. At any rate, I think that acceptance of fat lifestyles has been understated at best in previous Obsidian releases and I sincerely hope that this oversight is addressed for the future. I'm also very hopeful that the other members of this wonderful community will join me in proclaiming this forum to be fat-friendly. In summary, a cRPG that promotes a healthy body image is something for which I've been waiting an eternity, and Project Eternity could be that game.

 

-mcmanusaur, Fat Ambassador

 

If you were an ally of fat people you'd try to help them change their diet (fun fact: diet is derived from the greek "diaita," meaning "way of life",) and habits and become healthy. The vast body of scientific and medical evidence shows that being overweight increases your chances of acquiring myriad diseases, reduces lifespan and impedes health overall.

 

As someone who has experience being both skinny (as a child) and fat (thanks puberty) and who has changed my way of life in order to become more healthy (as in losing some goddamn weight by exercising and eating right,) I can tell you from personal experience that everything from mood to energy improves with healthy choices (choices that lead to not being fat,) and degrades from poor choices (choices that lead to being fat.) And I also know the difficulties involved in trying to change one's way of life. Being obese is not a "lifestyle choice," it's a tragic confluence of the genetic priorities of our hunter-gatherer ancestors and the capitalist proclivities for producing huge amounts of terrible foods for low prices.

 

You're either a chubby-chaser or a self-pitying overweight person, but either way, you "fat rights" people are just enablers who encourage the obese not to change their unhealthy habits. Either way, Project Eternity should not be a vehicle for your sexual fetish/efforts to kill America with heart disease and diabetes.

[Monte Carlo]

^

 

Look at my girlfriend, skinny loser!!!

 

[rjshae]

Look it's a herd of trolls...

[NOK222]

In an old setting, people with a thyroid disease would be dead. Meaning everyone who isn't an elitist glutton isn't fat.

 

Just throwing that out there.

[mcmanusaur]

If you were an ally of fat people you'd try to help them change their diet (fun fact: diet is derived from the greek "diaita," meaning "way of life",) and habits and become healthy. The vast body of scientific and medical evidence shows that being overweight increases your chances of acquiring myriad diseases, reduces lifespan and impedes health overall.

 

As someone who has experience being both skinny (as a child) and fat (thanks puberty) and who has changed my way of life in order to become more healthy (as in losing some goddamn weight by exercising and eating right,) I can tell you from personal experience that everything from mood to energy improves with healthy choices (choices that lead to not being fat,) and degrades from poor choices (choices that lead to being fat.) And I also know the difficulties involved in trying to change one's way of life. Being obese is not a "lifestyle choice," it's a tragic confluence of the genetic priorities of our hunter-gatherer ancestors and the capitalist proclivities for producing huge amounts of terrible foods for low prices.

 

You're either a chubby-chaser or a self-pitying overweight person, but either way, you "fat rights" people are just enablers who encourage the obese not to change their unhealthy habits. Either way, Project Eternity should not be a vehicle for your sexual fetish/efforts to kill America with heart disease and diabetes.

 

I am someone who believes the fact that there are a variety of acceptable lifestyles. Humanity is diverse, and that's something to cherish, not scorn. Fat people can rightfully be proud of who they are, and just because fat is not for you doesn't mean that others can't happily adhere to a fat lifestyle. I find it a bit presumptuous of you to dismiss something that many Ameri- people are happy with as tragic. I think the real tragedy is that someone such as yourself who has experienced the hardships of fathood- which arise from social perceptions, mind you- nevertheless engages in the same kind of implicit discrimination against others that you were no doubt subject to yourself. I pity that, but you are entitled to your own point of view.

 

I will choose not to respond to your ad hominem attacks, other than by saying that being a fat ally doesn't make me either of those things you called me. You wouldn't make such accusations of a LGBTQ ally, would you?

[mstark]

C'mon people, there's nothing troll-like about this thread, it's a brilliant work of art .

 

Sit back, relax, and open that big bag of crisps I know you've been craving... let the fat person trapped inside your Herculean hero body out for a bit.

[PsychoBlonde]

In case I didn't make it clear.

 

GO DO CARDIO

 

Just a note--in a recent research study, the researchers had a large group of overweight women between the ages of 40 and 60 "do cardio" (as in, an hour a day, 5 days a week) for a YEAR. Average weight loss: 4 lbs. Yeah. That's HUGE. /sarcasm

 

"Doing cardio" is not going to make you thinner. It only works for people who are genetically predisposed to burn off excess calories via exercise. For people who are predisposed to turn calories into fat it will simply make you ravenous and exhausted. The predisposition to pack on weight is SO STRONG that obese mice (who share this same genetic predisposition) will *starve to death* with their fat tissue still untouched, having cannibalized all of their muscle and organs first.

 

If you are fat, the problem isn't that you eat too much or exercise too little. The problem is that your body is keyed to turn calories into fat. Losing weight means doing something that causes your body to consume fat instead of storing it. That doesn't make it necessarily any easier--every fat individual has a slightly different metabolic and genetic makeup, so you have to find what works for you through a process of experimentation, trial and error. In general the necessary first step is to eliminate most carbohydrates from the diet, because carbohydrates trigger your body to produce the fat-storing hormone insulin in quantity. However, reducing your insulin levels via a low carbohydrate diet, while a positive step, is not always sufficient for everyone. Some people must go so far as to enter what's known as "nutritional ketosis", taking in under 50g (and sometimes as extreme as under 20g) of carbohydrates per day so that the muscles and brain primarily fuel themselves from ketones which are metabolized from fat by the liver.

 

Wheat elimination seems to play an important role for many people. Modern wheat is not the same as the ancient Einkorn variety grown in Biblical times--the modern crop contains insanely high levels of many chemicals apart from and above the gluten that so damages full celiacs. The wheat we eat now actually acts as an appetite-stimulating opiate while spiking blood glucose levels (and thus spiking insulin production and fat storage) worse than pure sugar. Other negative aspects of wheat involve destruction of the digestive tract, both allowing harmful toxins to enter the bloodstream AND preventing the digestion and uptake of vital nutrients. This causes many people to experience problems as diverse as arthritis, acne, autoimmune diseases, chronic gas, diarrhea and constipation, mental "fog", and even the onset or worsening of schizophrenia in particularly sensitive individuals. It is a perfect storm of body-destroying anti-nutrition. And most people consider it the ultimate diet staple.

 

But, by all means, continue dishing out your worthless advice backed up by no science whatsoever. I'm sure every fat person dreams of losing 4 whole pounds after a year of terrible effort and grinding exhaustion.

 

Or, if you're interested in losing weight in a way that actually works with your body chemistry instead of attempting to pretend that you have a skinny person's metabolism, you could try eliminating wheat and drastically reducing your carbohydrate intake. This has the added benefit that it can result in reduction or even elimination of acne, arthritis, gastrointestinal upsets, acid reflux, nutritional deficiencies, leg edema and neuropathy, water retention, diabetes, mental "fog" or other symptoms of mental illness including depression, anxiety, and even schizophrenia. And that's only the smallest part of the list.

 

I've done all of that over the past year and a half. To date, I have eliminated the following medical problems: joint pain, crippling leg edema and water retention, chronic constipation, nutritional deficiencies, sleep problems, chronic tiredness, depression, and anxiety. Oh, and I've lost 100 lbs. Still got a goodly ways to go, but I can see the light at the end of the tunnel now. Don't take my word for it, though, look online and there are plenty of resources about low carbohydrate diets and wheat elimination and how to tune them to your particular metabolic needs.

 

And, as far as "fat-ism" in the game goes--I don't mind jokes about fat people as long as they aren't mean-spirited and clearly revealing a total lack of basic comprehension. Being fat isn't, in itself, bad for you, it's a symptom of an underlying metabolic condition. I'd appreciate the opportunity to play characters of varying sizes and builds even though they're going to be TINY--this, at least, is a cosmetic difference you'll be able to SEE. I like what they did in SW:TOR, my housemate currently has a pudgy Jedi character he named F'Albert, and we both just find this hilarious. Yes, our taste in humor is a little bizarre--he's also made a sun elf earth-wizard character in another game that was based (in looks and personality) on Fat Bastard from Austin Powers. I liked the body slider in NwN2, but it only made you wider so you looked like a normal person instead of the (to me) weirdly attenuated super-model build you get in most games. I have yet to meet someone that bony who displays serious athleticism or muscle tone. All the strong people I know (and I know quite a few since I got involved in this low carb and strength training business) have some meat on them. It's HAWT.

Edited November 3, 2012 by PsychoBlonde

[Marceror]

mcmanusaur, if you're such an ally of the larger folk, wouldn't it be fitting to refer to them with more polite terminology. Referring to someone as "fat" is somewhat derogatory. "Fat-ally" souds anything but sympathetic.

 

How about big, heavy set, stout, or even over-weight? There are more polite ways to make your case. Just saying.

[mcmanusaur]

mcmanusaur, if you're such an ally of the larger folk, wouldn't it be fitting to refer to them with more polite terminology. Referring to someone as "fat" is somewhat derogatory. "Fat-ally" souds anything but sympathetic.

 

How about big, heavy set, stout, or even over-weight? There are more polite ways to make your case. Just saying.

 

I think using such an indirect term merely tries to sidestep the social stigma, rather than confronting it and truly fixing the problem. "Fat" is just a word, and it only has to be derogatory if we let such a view be impressed upon us. Perhaps you have more experience than me, but the movement as I know it is about reinventing "fat", not running from it.

[PsychoBlonde]

How about big, heavy set, stout, or even over-weight? There are more polite ways to make your case. Just saying.

 

All of those terms apply equally to Shaquille O'Neil btw, and he ain't fat.

 

I prefer "Bulge-alicious" or "Well-padded". :D I just wish I could bounce like Poe in Kung-Fu Panda. I would NEVER use ANY other form of locomotion.

Edited November 3, 2012 by PsychoBlonde

[Monte Carlo]

mcmanusaur, if you're such an ally of the larger folk, wouldn't it be fitting to refer to them with more polite terminology. Referring to someone as "fat" is somewhat derogatory. "Fat-ally" souds anything but sympathetic.

 

How about big, heavy set, stout, or even over-weight? There are more polite ways to make your case. Just saying.

 

I think using such an indirect term merely tries to sidestep the social stigma, rather than confronting it and truly fixing the problem. "Fat" is just a word, and it only has to be derogatory if we let such a view be impressed upon us. Perhaps you have more experience than me, but the movement as I know it is about reinventing "fat", not running from it.

 

We've reclaimed the word 'Fat' from the haters. 'Tis a celebratory term.

 

I'm going to eat two pizzas now. Two. Two whole damn pizzas. And beer. Then I might have more.

[Vin]

Selective acceptance is selective.

Yes, I'm very sure the misrepresentation or lack of any representation at all of "overweight" people in the media is very distressing. And yet how many albinos have you seen in a recent work of fiction that aren't villainous freaks? Since when were individuals with mental or personality disorders given fair treatment? I mean, they're more numerous than albinos, but that's all they have going for them.

You're cherry picking your issues here.

[mcmanusaur]

Selective acceptance is selective.

Yes, I'm very sure the misrepresentation or lack of any representation at all of "overweight" people in the media is very distressing. And yet how many albinos have you seen in a recent work of fiction that aren't villainous freaks? Since when were individuals with mental or personality disorders given fair treatment? I mean, they're more numerous than albinos, but that's all they have going for them.

You're cherry picking your issues here.

 

And I'm sure you'd accuse MLK, Jr. of the same, no?

[Nonek]

Achievement unlocked: Eaten all the pies.

Achievement unlocked: Big chief Obese.

Achievement unlocked: Big, huge, gargantuan, not seen on the earth for sixty million years boned.

Achievement unlocked: Tired of being fat and ugly? With the super wizard weight loss 2000 you don't need to worry about those unsightly pounds ever again. You'll still be ugly though.

Edited November 3, 2012 by Nonek