Thangorodrim

Another interesting artsy thing might be that as the adventure progresses you come into taverns and you hear them singing songs about your exploits ... or maybe some of the villages have local painters that are painting your adventurers

I don't know ... I think that cut scenes in games have been done to death and aren't really that powerful anymore ... I think if they add some sort of narrative introduction to certain key game areas or major regions it might establish more of a connection to the game in a literary sense and that might help with emotional attachment of some sort. As to specific emotional events I wouldn't mind some sort of location or event where they try and build a more emotional atmosphere (but not with over the top stuff like DA). Perhaps you could encounter a haunted castle as a quest. Different rooms or areas could have the spirits acting out scenes related to their untimely deaths. The quest could allow you to either slay the ghosts (ignoring the story) or there could be clues in their reenactments that allow you to put the spirits to rest instead of destroying them (that option should offer more experience). Kind of a CSI: PE quest

Well, since we are going to have 2 cities because of the stretch goals maybe they could make a story element about this ... one city could be less crowded because it is in decline and not fully populated (they could have the city be somewhat in disrepair) or maybe it could be suffering from a disease or curse ... the other could be the newer booming city ... I like the idea of a ruined city as well ... it would be great if it was a large city and populated with wild animals and various monsters

Because it would be boring otherwise. Why would your farm-raised (merchant/whatever) boy/girl leave the farm without some sort of call to action? Why would anyone in their right mind leave the security of their mundane surroundings to go fight monsters? Even Jack in the Bean Stalk has a call to action. Why is your country boy going to the big city? The story you are talking about country boy goes to city, witnesses some event, and then buys his plow and returns to the farm is very boring. Yes, God forbid a rebellious young farmer would ever want to leave the boring farm country he sees day after day to go see that big wide world right over the horizon without witnessing a soul shattering event of some sort ... maybe we have the Sir Edmund Hilary (make that George Mallory ) of farmers ("because it was there") or the We Bought a Zoo version "Why not" ... just saying it is an option not totally out of the realm of possibility

I think the amoral approach you suggest should definitely be an option but depending on your point of view certain actions can be considered distinctly more "right" or more "wrong" ... the difference between rescuing the Little Sisters in Bioshock and harvesting them is stark ... and there are different rewards or penalties for pursuing either approach (but they are both viable game play options that suit a particular playing style) ... I like to have a few choices in the game and consequences that are equally stark

I don't think the system can or should prevent certain actions ... I think it should just result in different game play results if you pursue a "kill everything on the map" approach vs a "rescue everything on the map" approach vs something in between ... whether the results of your actions are considered a penalty or reward largely depends on the player's perspective but I think actions should have results and actions that are grayer in nature should have results that are equally gray

Why does the game need an event at all? Why not just have the character going into the world with the wide eyed intensity of the country boy going to the big city? If an event is needed to propel the quest it doesn't need to revolve around the main character at all. It's not like we are going to not play the game if the event doesn't involve us directly

Even without formal alignment they could still do a mix of good, bad, and grey ... as you mentioned however, without alignment you might get more shades of grey ... hopefully even without alignment they will have some measure of a character's "goodness" or "badness" ... whether they go the route of Karma or renown/infamy or something else it is useful to give characters actual moral choices with consequences (being good in Fallout 3 resulted in a bounty on your head from the 'evil' factions while being evil resulted in you being hunted by the 'good' factions - only by being neutral could you avoid the hunters) ... it also provides some nice gated quest opportunities (are you good enough for the priests to hire you for their quest ... are you evil/amoral enough to join the bandit or pirate gang or be hired by the evil magician) ... another advantage of some form of alignment is it provides a penalty for just killing everything that moves ... PE isn't an FPS games .... although some characters are content to slay their way through the countryside leaving a red swath behind them, others enjoy a more nuanced playing style where killing isn't always the only or the best solution to a problem ... alignment of some sort makes it easier to measure where on the scale you fall, so that the other NPCs can react accordingly (do the woman and children run and hide when you enter a town or do they cheer the arrival of the party ) ... it is always good to have an adventuring environment that is big enough to accommodate your playing style whether you favor Thomas Aquinas, Machiavelli, or somewhere in between

It is nice to have a little depth to your characters and NPCs... most people are neither completely black or completely white but some shade of grey ... villains who have a little depth to them or tragic heroes are always more interesting ... one of my favorite examples of a villain who you can't quite hate or love is the character in the Star Trek Next Generation episode "The Survivors" ... when they finally discover his "crime" they respond that they have no court capable of judging his crime or a being of his power so they simply leave him be Another notable example is the comment made about Sauron when he reminds the Fellowship that even Sauron wasn't always evil Depth and range are desirable both in fiction and in games

What do folks think of quests with clear moral connotations, depending on the solution chosen? - the Slaver quest in Fallout 3 where you can either kill the slavers or sell the former slaves to them - Neverwinter Nights quest where you are presented with the "opportunity" to sell diseased blankets to orcs (I think it was) to subject them to a form of genocide - your choices of disposition for Megaton City in Fallout 3 (Save it, Destroy it, leave it alone) - Choice of siding with the Zombies or the Residents of Ten Penny towers in Fallout 3 ... although with the results, the morality of those two choices wasn't that stark a choice (more of a lesser of two evils) Those are several that readily come to mind but I am sure there are many others. I actually like having the choice, even though I never play as an evil character so I never get to partake of the evil choices. Although I played through the Assassin's guild quests for Elder Scrolls Oblivion I actually found it somewhat distasteful that I only had the evil options available to me (but I just held my nose figuratively and soldiered on). So what do other folks think? Lots of moral choices for standard quests, some evil and some good quests, or tons of both? And what about neutrality as a choice? I have never been much for this option and it is tough to balance in a game but I know some folks like that approach. Sorry, if this is addressed in another thread already.

What if you run into a dungeon with a really narrow door ... the other characters might have to kick and push him to get him inside ... either that or he might get stuck in the only entrance and the characters who rushed in ahead of him will slowly starve to death The party will simply have to lube him/her up with lard, a d20 roll will be required for success, rolling a crit failure will be amusing. I wouldn't mind if they got those bonuses btw, but they should have a penalty to AC (easier to hit) and take a dex penalty as well. Hmmm ... I wonder which store will sell that valuable item ... either that or I finally found a use for that +1 Chain-mail of slipperiness

Unless it serves some purpose in the game it probably isn't needed. - Alcohol serves a distinct purpose since the taverns were the social and news centers of the day, and the tradition of taverns in RPGs is well established. Most RPGs also give you distinct penalties (as in real life) for over indulging (lowered dexterity and sometimes an inability to fully control actions). - Stims were well represented in Fallout and they also had distince uses and penalties for overuse. - skooma was used in Elder Scrolls for several quests and the player had the option to use with very distinct penalties (and a few minor advantages, depending on your gaming style) - the Black Lotus was well represented in Conan literature, also with distinct disadvantages and penalties for usage If they design some plot points where drugs can be used effectively (and with accurate penalties for abuse) then I have no problem with their inclusion, but if they are just window dressing they are best left out. Alcohol will give plenty of abuse potential

What if you run into a dungeon with a really narrow door ... the other characters might have to kick and push him to get him inside ... either that or he might get stuck in the only entrance and the characters who rushed in ahead of him will slowly starve to death

If you look at the literary character of Conan the Barbarian he had some of his greatest adventures in his 30's and became the King of Aquilonia in his mid 40's. A middle age is certainly realistic. The literary characters of Frodo and Bilbo Baggins in LoTR and Hobbit were both adventuring in their middle ages as well. As I think about it more after reading the wide variety of posts and opinions on this, I would think these types of restrictions would work best for age, if it was actually implemented: Strength could be maximum of 19 through age 21 or so. Max of 18 into mid 30's. Max of 17 into late 40's. Then decrease gradually after that to maybe a maximum of 15 at 60+. Rationale is that men do generally tend to be strongest while young but they could still be very strong in middle age. Constitution could be maximum of 17 through age 21 or so. Max of 18 through 30. Max of 19 through 40. Then decrease gradually after that to maybe a max of 15 or 16 at 60+. Rationale is that middle age could actually increase constitution through seasoning and more world experience. Intelligence could be maximum of 17 through age 21 or so. Max of 18 through 25. Max of 19/20 into middle age (50 maybe). And then max of 17/18 after that. Rationale is new scientific study on the development of the brain and that some centers of the brain don't fully mature until mid 20's. Wisdom could be maximum of 16 through age 18. Max of 17 through mid 20's. Max of 18 through 30. Max of 19/20 for beyond. No deterioration with age. Rationale is same as above using brain development studies. Dexterity could be maximum of 18 through age 18. Max of 19/20 through late 20's. And then gradually deteriorate with age down to 15/16 range in sunset years. Rationale is that physical deterioration would probably affect this ability similar to strength. Charisma could follow a similar progression to Wisdom with maybe some slight deterioration in later years. Rationale that if you are too young some people will doubt your experience to lead and too old your stamina to lead. But in the middle ranges where you have both experience and vigor you would be more of a charismatic leader. You could also pick up 2-4 skills for every 10 years of age. Rationale being you get exposed to a variety of professions and training, if you live long enough Anyway, they won't implement age that way since it would add way too much complexity to the game. But it does make for an interesting thought experiment. Kind of a Schrodinger's Maturity Index

They had different views because then, a luxurious sedentary lifestyle was an all but unimaginable dream for the majority of people. Fat was a sign of being well off, and not having to work hard. Now, that's the norm, and having the time/money to buy healthy food and work out is a sign of success. So while some fat may have been considered attractive, that was exactly because it was not seen on the kind folks we're likely to be playing as in PE. Also, obesity was associated with gluttony and laziness practically since the beginning of time. When people say that fat was attractive, they're talking about slightly chubby sculptures and paintings, not what modern Americans consider "fat". I get the sense the OP is a member of the anti chainmail bikini crowd. If "realism" is really at all important, characters who travel the country by foot and fight all day long should be pretty goddam fit. Are we talking about fat or clinically obese people? That said, I do not see why some NPCs or even one of companions, like a cleric/mage/cipher or similar should not be chubby/fat? I am all for some NPCs in the privileged and wealthy classes being obese, if that is what the developers want, but an obese beggar or obese peasant or obese companion would be far less likely ... I wouldn't mind an obese companion if they were realistically constrained by that handicap (and in an adventuring environment it would be a handicap ) ... if the companion couldn't carry hardly any weight before they become encumbered and couldn't move, and if they had a slow movement rate so they were always falling behind and the rest of the party had to wait for them to catch up then I would support that ... but let's be realistic about our parties ... we don't have horses so we are hiking 20-30+ miles a day with full packs in armor ... we are also engaging in physically stressful activities like combat, exploring dangerous dungeons, and looting corpses ... a corpulent party member wouldn't last long in those situations or would cease to be corpulent very quickly ... if someone wants a full figured portrait then make that an option but leave the adventurer and companion avatars in a more "realistic" state of lean mean dungeon exploring machines

They had different views because then, a luxurious sedentary lifestyle was an all but unimaginable dream for the majority of people. Fat was a sign of being well off, and not having to work hard. Now, that's the norm, and having the time/money to buy healthy food and work out is a sign of success. So while some fat may have been considered attractive, that was exactly because it was not seen on the kind folks we're likely to be playing as in PE. Also, obesity was associated with gluttony and laziness practically since the beginning of time. When people say that fat was attractive, they're talking about slightly chubby sculptures and paintings, not what modern Americans consider "fat". I get the sense the OP is a member of the anti chainmail bikini crowd. If "realism" is really at all important, characters who travel the country by foot and fight all day long should be pretty goddam fit. I concur ... Besides, if you look at the inventories some folks carried around in BG and IWD you were traveling on foot, wearing lots of armor, carrying lots of weapons, AND carrying a pack with 50-200 pounds of stuff in it ... to be able to do that day after day I would think most adventuring parties would look more like Seal Team Six rather than Bombur from the Hobbit

Exactly ... and most of the wealthy classes weren't tramping all over creation adventuring either ... they tended to stay in their big castles eating and staying out of the sun ... maybe we could add a litter with bearers for the fat characters in the game ... or the Asics of Speed for the really thin ones

I think there should be some class specific quests (based on your main character) and possibly some race specific quests ... I don't have a problem with level specific quests either (you have to have a minimum level or renown before being offered one of these quests) ... however, I think if you don't meet the criteria of the quest then it shouldn't even be offered to you ... they should also try and make sure there aren't broken quests ... this was something that drove me crazy in Elder Scrolls Oblivion when the character I needed for a quest had been killed ... those really drove me crazy, especially since some of them were important side quests

As Freud said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" ... I don't think we need to write societal issues into every single game we play ... in a medieval setting like PE, questions of slavery, race, age, religion, superstition, and gender are all valid for that environment as they were inherent to those times ... the question of weight didn't arise until modern times when our eating habits and activity levels lost their alignment (the vast availability of simple foods hasn't helped either) People in medieval times ate little, not due to a desire to do so, but do to an inability to overindulge in food due to costs and availability ... medieval folks also lived very active lifestyles (not because they ran to the gym but because they worked from sunup to sundown ) which tended to keep them thin (sometimes dangerously so) ... our characters will likely be tramping all over God's creation (make that Obsidian's creation ) so I would expect they will be pretty fit and thin, unless our game is confined to an extremely small area Obesity and how people with this condition are treated are serious problems in OUR world, but I don't think they need to become an element of the PE fantasy world ... as an aside I do have sympathy for folks with weight issues (especially since I just finished a weight loss regimen of 165 lbs myself ... it was like loosing an entire person ) but I don't think PE needs to address that one way or another ... they could have some corpulent NPCs in the wealthy classes but if I see a corpulent beggar there better be a quest with one serious backstory for that person

A range of character portraits is desirable but in general the game avatars are pretty small and don't favor one body type over another ... I think people do sometimes get too hung up on social agendas in every form of media there is ... I would like to see them deviate from the cultural misogynistic stereotypes of woman in these games more than I would societal elements like body type ... the number of people who would be classified as "fat" is really more of a modern age problem ... in medieval days you didn't have too many fat people except for the indolent wealthy types because everyone else had large amounts of daily activities and not a lot of food (that tends to make you thin ) ... tramping around the landscape is actually pretty good exercise (especially if you are lugging around all that loot and armor ) ... maybe you can let a character be fat but cut their movement rate in half and reduce their encumbrance allowance by an equal amount ... that would allow people to utilize the alternate body style but also give them some realistic penalties associated with it However, since that would be difficult and they could never institute a mechanism to lose the weight once you assigned it I think they are better off giving chubby portraits and avoiding full figured avatars

For me the ideal combination would be the complex story of Planescape Torment, the epic scale of Baldur's Gate, and the tactical combat and dungeons of IceWind Dale.

If they pursue the concept of skills then I think a range of increasing skills at the price of decreasing strength and possibly constitution would make for an interesting game play mechanism that wouldn't have a severe impact on play balance or starting balance. For example, you could start the game at 16 with standard abilities and a certain pool of skill points (5 for example). If you want to increase your age you would lose 1 strength for every 7 years and 1 constitution for every 14 but gain 2 skill points for every 7 years. They could limit this progression to a max age of 37 for instance (allowing you to sacrifice 3 ST and 1 Con for 6 extra ability points at the max). For a mage or rogue who aren't as strength based but are far weaker in combat usually, this might give them an interesting option to buff their characters a little. Even a fighter might be willing to take the 1 ST hit for 2 extra skills for more of a finesse player (as opposed to the brute force type player). I think the mechanism could work as long as the main character's back story doesn't depend on their age. This would also give multi-classing an interesting dynamic since you could require multi-classed characters to start at the first age increment up (due to the increased training time in 2 professions) ... anyway, that is where my thinking goes

I would prefer the dialog options be more in line with BG2 ... however, to have a voice narrator to provide atmosphere or location descriptions would give it more of an old PnP RPG feel. The narration concept also worked extremely well in the indie title Bastion so I think they could make it work. I would like that approach better with reading the dialog and listening to a narrator add depth over individual voicing of the characters (which would also increase cost). A lengthy written exposition in exploration situations might be very useful though, as opposed to the dialog example. For example, "As you enter the Forest of "Insert creative non-infringing name here" you remember the stories they used to tell by the communal campfire when you were young, of spirits that haunt these woods. As you feel the oppressive silence beat upon you, like waves washing ashore at high tide, you can almost believe these old campfire tales. But you are young and the stories are old, so you tighten the cinches on your armor and step into the quiet darkness between the trees ...." and other such things

I would like the idea of some class guilds (Mage Guild, Fighter Guild, Rogues Guild, etc) that the main character could join and possibly advance in. There could be class specific quests from within the guild but they should be limited (5-8 maybe?). I wouldn't really want to see too many non guild class related quests though. I would have no problem with some quests awarding class specific items as rewards that might or might not benefit the party. But I wouldn't want to see too many quests limited to just one class or another. You might balance some quests though so they are easier for one class or another. That might work.

I liked in D&D where it was defined that the arcane magics of the spellcasters were interfered with by the metal armors ... since some of the casters also used arcane gestures they needed a range of motion that all but cloth armor prohibited ... to compensate them for this weakness they had lots of protection spells for themselves, areas, and groups ... if every character can do everything then you become like Elder Scrolls Oblivion ... although it was fun to be able to complete all the quests for all the classes it also removes some of the role playing choices and uniqueness of the characters ... I kind of like my mages and rogues to be different than my fighters, not just in their apparel but also their strategies since they are unable to use the same exact skills and protections of other characters ... but maybe that is just me