My short list of things that must be in this game

[Feynt]

I'm a simple RPG player with simple needs. There are many like me out there, and many have their own list, but this one is mine:

1. Race wise, there must be a playable bestial race (which isn't just nekomimi. Actual animal hybrids or lesser, like wolfmen or even just playable wolves). Bonus points if they don't always follow a stereotype of being outsiders to the other races because they're so different. Extra bonus points if they are intelligent animals capable of communication, but perhaps not using tools (and my condolences and commendations to the story writers writing the quests that can deal with that race)
   
2. Weapon wise, a staff must be a valid form of weaponry. A talented martial artist (eastern or western arts) skilled with a staff is the equal of a swordsman. There is more to holding a staff about the middle and swinging it left and right until things fall down, and seeing the majority of RPGs disregard staves as weapons only a mage would use or relegate them to magical foci and nothing more is disheartening. Again, my gratitude if staves (and other weapons of course) can parry intrinsically as part of the skill to use them, and allow for riposte.
   
3. Item wise, non-magical equipment has to remain valid as well. A guy dressed in leather armour and wielding a pair of daggers should be just as relevant in combat as a guy wearing enchanted clothes that offer plate mail like defense and wielding swords that are as light as willow boughs. Enchanted rope that is as strong as chain and normal rope need to be as valid when tying someone up or using it for normal purposes like climbing (let the enchantment come into play when combat starts and swords start swinging at it). I enjoy power creep as much as the next guy, but I want Angelic Layer, not Dragon Ball GT.
   
4. Characters must be capable of getting drunk. Maybe there's somethings that benefits from getting drunk, like drunken boxing or diplomacy, but damn it after a long, hard fight I want a long, hard draft at a tavern. Or, perhaps, my tavern now. >)
   

 

 

How about the rest of you? Any short lists to help guide the dev team on their journey to completion?

[mr.Ermac]

I agree with you save for a bit of point one. I think OE stated they won't have beast races, just stick to the general humans/elfs races. Personally (and that's just me) I don't find beast races believable, I mean sure its fantasy, but they somehow stick out to me too much. I did enjoy them in Morrowind but it kinda wore off at some point.

 

Also on point 4, I suggest you try getting yourself intoxicated while playing an RPG. It is trully a unique experience, and it is as if your character is actually drunk! Great roleplaying times

[Skie Nightfall]

I wish there would be some kind of unique race like your first point, but I doubt it will happen.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1. The ability to accurately play whatever character I create.
   

That is all I need really. As long as the game doesn't railroad my PC internally, I will be happy.

[Tamerlane]

...

 

Strangely specific.

 

1. Don't think you're going to see much in the way of a wolfman. Maybe from the Godlike.

 

I'm still choked that Werewolf: The Apocalypse game got cancelled, like... a decade ago.

 

2. Weapons that exist just to suck do suck, I agree. Lookin' at you, spears.

 

3. This is... kind of absurd. I mean, I get that you don't want the items to be more important than the character. I wholeheartedly agree. The first time I played BG, I made a paladin with dex as a dump stat. He could take a beating, but he was a clumsy mother****er. Then I found the gauntlets of dexterity which, hey, awesome, there's an item here that makes me way better, but... bad dex was kind of... his... thing. It was part of him. A character should be more than just the thing that carries flaming swords, magic-absorbing armour, and HP regen rings.

 

But to take it to the extent you did is nonsensical. A well-made bow wielded by an experienced, alert archer is always going to be worse than a well-made bow wielded by an experienced, alert archer and also that bow shoots lightning. Well, unless you're fighting something that's resistant to lightning, I guess.

 

But unless you put magic-resisting enemies ****ing everywhere or apply some penalty for using magic items or something... no.

 

4. They already have a man who punches to death with the power of drugs. I have a sneaking suspicion you're covered, man.

[LadyCrimson]

Weapon wise, a staff must be a valid form of weaponry. [...] Again, my gratitude if staves (and other weapons of course) can parry intrinsically as part of the skill to use them, and allow for riposte.

I'd agree and would like to see this as well. Most 2h melee weapons in games so often feel .. superfluous.

[HansKrSG]

I agree with the OP's sentiment about staffs, the point about having nonmagical equipment being useable even when there is magical items in the mix and drunkedness is a "sure, sounds nice" in my opinion. I can add my own: "I want spears" in the game. Spears and other pole weapons have been a tremendously important weapons in warfare since the antiquity to the beginning of the gunpowder era. In a world where you still use swords, spears are a must. This has been an important thing for me since they decided to not have them in Oblivion (or was it as far back as Morrowind?)

 

1. XP for kills and overcoming a challenge, like talking your way past something.

2. No hard level cap (like in torment, you could get to 127th level, and when you leveled after this you just kept on being 127th level, but still got the benefits, of course HP turned around on itself after a while, but thats another story)

3. No forcing of companions on the party (NWN2 I am looking at you)

4. No level scaling, at all. When I go to the "wrong part of the world" I should be able to meet monsters I am not supposed to meet yet, and die horribly, and later I should be able to visit easier areas, and *^?# up the monsters like they were nothing.

 

I am sure there are other important things, but most of them I think the developers have covered anyway.

[BSoda]

I'm a simple RPG player with simple needs. There are many like me out there, and many have their own list, but this one is mine:

1. Race wise, there must be a playable bestial race (which isn't just nekomimi. Actual animal hybrids or lesser, like wolfmen or even just playable wolves). Bonus points if they don't always follow a stereotype of being outsiders to the other races because they're so different. Extra bonus points if they are intelligent animals capable of communication, but perhaps not using tools (and my condolences and commendations to the story writers writing the quests that can deal with that race)
    
   
2. Weapon wise, a staff must be a valid form of weaponry. A talented martial artist (eastern or western arts) skilled with a staff is the equal of a swordsman. There is more to holding a staff about the middle and swinging it left and right until things fall down, and seeing the majority of RPGs disregard staves as weapons only a mage would use or relegate them to magical foci and nothing more is disheartening. Again, my gratitude if staves (and other weapons of course) can parry intrinsically as part of the skill to use them, and allow for riposte.
    
   
3. Item wise, non-magical equipment has to remain valid as well. A guy dressed in leather armour and wielding a pair of daggers should be just as relevant in combat as a guy wearing enchanted clothes that offer plate mail like defense and wielding swords that are as light as willow boughs. Enchanted rope that is as strong as chain and normal rope need to be as valid when tying someone up or using it for normal purposes like climbing (let the enchantment come into play when combat starts and swords start swinging at it). I enjoy power creep as much as the next guy, but I want Angelic Layer, not Dragon Ball GT.
    
   
4. Characters must be capable of getting drunk. Maybe there's somethings that benefits from getting drunk, like drunken boxing or diplomacy, but damn it after a long, hard fight I want a long, hard draft at a tavern. Or, perhaps, my tavern now. >)
   

I guess this just shows how different PE's target audience is.

 

None of this stuff is important to me.

 

...but I guess if I had to contribute with my own point:

 

Choices. They really should matter -and there should be a lot of them.

Edited October 18, 2012 by BSoda

[Nomine Vacans]

1. Furries must be burned. Their uncleanness must be purged. No exeptions.

2. "A talented martial artist (eastern or western arts) skilled with a staff is the equal of a swordsman." Stick is stick, sword is sword. It's like saying what skilled man with a slingshot is equal to man with a gun. Bullsh*t.

3. Lether must be equal to plate mail and daggers to swords? wtf are you talking about?

4. Also characters must be able to become addict and ruin their families and careers... (no real objections at this point)

[Infinitron]

Furries, in my forum?

 

Josh Sawyer has confirmed that he wants to make all types of weapons and armor genuinely useful, so you have that.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Infinitron

[Hassat Hunter]

Because only furries use Khajiit right... sure...

[LaSombra]

I was thinking about writing something useful, but you guys said everything I wanted to say, thank you!

 

I agree with the choices part. An RPG without meaningful choices is just... lame. Doesn't feel like an RPG to me at all, and I'm not talking about which-path-to-take choices, I'm talking about different-storyline choices.

 

Bestial races? I'm not much into that, I like Dark Sun races sans bestial races, though Thri-Kreen were cool

[Skie Nightfall]

1. Furries must be burned. Their uncleanness must be purged. No exeptions.

 

Go **** yourself. Thank you.

[JFSOCC]

Unique abilities, weapons, single use items that have unusual and interesting function. Something more than the simple Damage, heal, buff, debuff. but rather functional features which can be used creatively and tactically.

[Grand Heresiarch]

I think with regards to the magical vs unmagical weapons they can avoid this by moving more into a magical vs technological continuum. That is to say that the magic bow of flaming justice is counterbalanced by a compound bow with cams and pulleys and a badass red-dot sight.

 

I think that if you get down to it, your fears concerning the power of magical items (or we will say advanced items) stems more from the fact that in most of the Infinity Engine games, magic in general came to dominate the scene after about lvl 5, and magic weapons were the only way to keep melee somewhat on par. What is difficult to do well, it seems, is to make a game where magic starts strong and stays strong and so does melee, as opposed to the typical d&d progression of horrible low level mages that turn into shiny death gods.

 

In some respects, there is something to be learned from most MMOs in this regard. While I am not advocating mmo mechanics, they do an excellent job (since it is so essential) of balancing casters and melee in a linear power progression.

 

With regards to an animal based race..Im gonna say meh. Cant use tools, cant build anything, which would make them severely limited from a design standpoint. The only way out would be to make them absurdly magical, which would be difficult to implement effectively.

[Nerei]

1. I personally dislike beastmen, furries or whatever you want to call them. It is not something I would play but I can accept that others want it.

 

2. Is a staff a valid weapon? Yes it is. Is it as good as a Zweihänder? Most definitely not. Your advantage for your martial artist is that he has training, he know his weapon. He know how to use it. There is kind of a reason that most medieval armies used swords, spears halberds etc and not just a long piece of wood.

 

3. Magical flaming sword vs nonmagical one? Magical one wins. Magical dagger vs nonmagical Halberd? there you might have an advantage with the halberd. There might also be specific types of magical weapons might not work but as a whole magical >>> non-magical. If magical items are not better, why are they there? Why would anyone make them if they as a whole does not give you a noticeable advantage? Honestly your guy with a dagger in leather vs a guy effectively in gothic plate with unrestricted movement and a magical sword should be killed 95%+ of the time

 

4. Not sure it should be an outright advantage to alcohols and drugs, but you could make some sort of stat modifications. Many drugs can make you a lot more tolerant towards pain which could be simulated with an increase to constitution (or similar stat). They could also make you more agressive which could be a strength modifier. Naturally this would have to be balanced in some way, alcohol would affect motor skills and arguably also intelligence (at least by far the majority of dead drunk people I have seen was like that ) There is plenty of possibilities and I really like the way it was done in the fallout games.

[rjshae]

• I can live without a playable bestial race; that can be covered by druids. As a recruitable ally though, it might be fun.
  
• [staffs] Yes, ideally each weapon should have its own distinctive strengths and weaknesses. It all depends on how detailed the designers want to make the combat system.
  
• [Non-magic weapons] Maybe. The designers could include some enemies that are impervious to general magic buffs. But in general items should be worth what you pay for them.
  
• [Drinking] Is there a role for leisure activities within a RPG? Perhaps in a MMORPG. With a single player game I'm hard pressed to come up with anything besides communicating with NPCs.
  

[StreetBushido]

1. Non-human races such as The Elder Scrolls' Khajit and Argonians could be interesting. On the other hand, fully animal characters with human level intelligence and sentience would be quite strange, and perhaps not fit the setting very well. As shape for a shapeshifter, yes. As a complete playable race? I don't think it would work all that well. But then, the number of playable races has been set now and I'm afraid that further discussion at this point will probably not budge that. Not that I mind: I think it is preferable to have a few well defined races than a huge pile of shoddily written ones.
   
2. I agree that every weapon type should be useful. Including a type of weapon that is universally crap would be a bummer for players who want to specialize in that type of weapon.
   
3. To me, an important part of these games is getting better equipment. In a fantasy setting, that most often means magical weapons. I agree with that, and feel that is what works best. A lot of fantasy literature follows this trope as well. If you are a good swordsman and your sword also helps you fight, you are going to beat a good swordsman with a regular sword. If you are a crappy swordsman with a helpful sword, you will at least level the field against the good swordsman.
   
4. I think the best impementation of drugs of any kind is that used in the Fallout series: it gives you a temporary boost, but comes at a cost as you crash after a time. The Baldur's Gate games also handled drinking in an interesting way: every time (or every few times, maybe) you bought a drink you also heard a rumor. If drinking only means losing money and getting drunk, with no further interaction than that, I don't see why anybody would do it.
   

[Feynt]

1. Furries must be burned. Their uncleanness must be purged. No exeptions.

Because only furries use Khajiit right... sure...

Basically, this. Also, your bigotry is showing.

I don't enjoy playing as a human in any game, they offer no advantages or disadvantages in almost every setting. It's been far too long since I've seen "flaws" in character creation to add variety to the person you're playing as. Thus, I get my variety in choosing another race. I think it would be interesting dealing with the trials of a bipedal world as an intelligent animal.

"Oh God it's going to ea- Oh, you're a customer? C-Come in, come in, sorry about the... Never mind." - Shopkeeper to intelligent panther character looking for supplies

2. "A talented martial artist (eastern or western arts) skilled with a staff is the equal of a swordsman." Stick is stick, sword is sword. It's like saying what skilled man with a slingshot is equal to man with a gun. Bullsh*t.

They've already said a wizard isn't necessarily the equal of a man with a gun. But that arrangement aside, a staff meant for combat offers a significant reach advantage over the average sword, can parry safely and with greater ease (two points of focus instead of one), and levers very well to throw opponents off balance. An experienced staff wielder is easily the equal of swordsman in the right environment (not a narrow corridor).

 

Also, fast moving projectiles are fast moving projectiles. A metal BB or a slug, either will kill you if it moves fast enough. As long as we aren't talking 10 paces, turn and draw, the silence of a slingshot gives the wielder a decided advantage in an area where he can hide and pick his shots. If we're going further back and talking about a sling (not a slingshot which has more akin to a bow), an experienced sling user can put a rock through a medium to large can at 20m+ with a minimum of prep-swinging. The effective combat range of a modern handgun is 4.5-6m, though they're maximum effective range is more like 15-20m (and that's a crack shot with time to aim). Guns in this setting are blunderbuss at best, effective at point blank range essentially (inside 3m). So yes, I'd go with the guy with the sling.

 

3. Lether must be equal to plate mail and daggers to swords? wtf are you talking about?

In my example I was giving comparisons between plain leather and daggers, versus some enchanted clothing with equivalent or better protection and swords likewise enchanted to give dagger like weight.

 

Swords are still swords, they're long and awkward in close quarters or tight environments. They're meant to slash with, not so much with the stabbing. While you can stab with most swords their length means you have to draw your arm back further to stab something very close, giving your opponent an opening to strike at. As far as reach is concerned, swords outclass daggers. But they're meant for different styles of combat. Slashing weapons are exceedingly poor when your target is inside of your swing arc, and a guy with a dagger is looking to be that close to stick you. And what's more, his goal is easier because stabbing is a natural punching motion that flows well with his forward momentum.

 

Likewise they mentioned magical protection has disadvantages against technological advances like guns, so yes the enchanted clothing may offer better protection than the leather.... against blunt attacks maybe. But would it cut just as easily as regular cloth? Would it stop an arrow any better? If we go with your gross misinterpretation, leather armour worn by a nimble person is absolutely better than asking someone to dance about in full plate. Yes, people CAN do fancy acrobatics wearing 60-70lbs of metal, but they tire quickly. Would you rather parkour in full plate or motorcycle padding? Can leather armour stop a sword as well as full plate? No. But they're meant for different styles of combat. The guy wearing leather is looking to avoid attacks and is armoured more to cushion those hits that do graze him. The guy wearing plate is basically hoping for the best as he weaves about, but is wearing the armour to give him the best odds against cutting blades and basically anything else that is not a direct hit.

4. Also characters must be able to become addict and ruin their families and careers... (no real objections at this point)

I'm glad you can get your wife beating on, if you so choose, should this come to pass. I meant drinking with my party and having funny (potentially hazardous, potentially beneficial!) augmentations to skill checks.

[Nomine Vacans]

Because only furries use Khajiit right... sure...

Exactly.

 

Go **** yourself. Thank you.

Basically, this. Also, your bigotry is showing.

...

I'm glad you can get your wife beating on, if you so choose, should this come to pass. I meant drinking with my party and having funny (potentially hazardous, potentially beneficial!) augmentations to skill checks.

Butthurt. Butthurt never changes.

Also, fast moving projectiles are fast moving projectiles. A metal BB or a slug, either will kill you if it moves fast enough. As long as we aren't talking 10 paces, turn and draw, the silence of a slingshot gives the wielder a decided advantage in an area where he can hide and pick his shots. If we're going further back and talking about a sling (not a slingshot which has more akin to a bow), an experienced sling user can put a rock through a medium to large can at 20m+ with a minimum of prep-swinging. The effective combat range of a modern handgun is 4.5-6m, though they're maximum effective range is more like 15-20m (and that's a crack shot with time to aim). Guns in this setting are blunderbuss at best, effective at point blank range essentially (inside 3m). So yes, I'd go with the guy with the sling.

You can go with any kind of guys, if that's your thing.

But, for some reason, we are using pitiful and ineffective firearms instead of deadly, fast and silent slings.

The effective combat range of a modern handgun is 4.5-6m, though they're maximum effective range is more like 15-20m (and that's a crack shot with time to aim).

Are you on drugs or just retarded? Not that I really care, just asking out of curiosity.

Edited October 31, 2012 by Comedian

[Nomine Vacans]

double

Edited October 31, 2012 by Comedian

[BetrayTheWorld]

I guess this just shows how different PE's target audience is.

 

None of this stuff is important to me.

 

...but I guess if I had to contribute with my own point:

 

Choices. They really should matter -and there should be a lot of them.

 

Ditto.

[wanderon]

I guess this just shows how different PE's target audience is.

 

None of this stuff is important to me.

 

...but I guess if I had to contribute with my own point:

 

Choices. They really should matter -and there should be a lot of them.

 

Ditto.

Put me down for this one too.

[Monte Carlo]

Also on point 4, I suggest you try getting yourself intoxicated while playing an RPG. It is trully a unique experience, and it is as if your character is actually drunk! Great roleplaying times

 

I have cast Cloudkill in every pub in Amn whilst r/w drunk. 0 Reputation, Fallen Paladins, yadda yadda.

[Feynt]

Butthurt. Butthurt never changes.

Didn't know you swung that way, sailor. I've got some friends you can meet up with if that's your thing.

But, for some reason, we are using pitiful and ineffective firearms instead of deadly, fast and silent slings.

The difference is just like crossbows versus bows. One requires skill and training to use on the order of months to years, the other can be given to any random person and used somewhat effectively. Back in the day, an army of English longbowmen were the superior of most ranged units in combat. But training up and arming them was far less cost effective than making a crossbow, handing it to some schmuck, and drafting him into service for king and country.

 

My money's still on the guy with the sling if there's terrain to abuse. Plus handguns run out of ammunition, slings basically use whatever's fist sized or smaller that happens to be laying about.

The effective combat range of a modern handgun is 4.5-6m, though they're maximum effective range is more like 15-20m (and that's a crack shot with time to aim).

Are you on drugs or just retarded? Not that I really care, just asking out of curiosity.

Don't believe me, look it up. Most sites quote the foot range, where 50 feet is about 15m. However books in your library and your local gun club can verify this approximate range too. That is, if research doesn't hurt you too much.