Karkarov Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Reasonable realistic looking armor and weapons is fine, basing it on real world historical groups or figures isn't. This isn't medieval Germany, it is PE and they need to go with their own design concepts. It would be nice not to see a sword bigger than the person holding it in one hand though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentOrange Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I wonder how many times these fancy medieval/renaissance dueling moves were seen in actual combat...I get the feeling most of the time it devolved into trying to bash your opponents skull in using whatever cheap means you could come up with...Can Obsidian implement throwing dirt into opponents eyes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christliar Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Simple, yet fantastical is the best course of action for me. I wouldn't mind seeing elemental effects on weapons too, like fire or lightning. The armors are a bit tougher, but the same approach could work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karranthain Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 And here's another interesting design : I'd definitely be great to see poleaxes in the game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte Carlo Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 God, I hope they don't go pure historical piece equipment. I realize that many fantasy games out there make ridiculous looking armor and weapons. That said, this game is not set in medieval Europe. It's an entirely different world. Lets see some unique designs. Stuff can be creative and new without looking impractical or unreal. Edited for clarity. Nobody is advocating that, if you read the whole thread. We are only talking about influences, not diktat. Furthermore, it's a cool thread for the military history geeks on the board (mea culpa) to have a romance and gender-free cave. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenup Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrashMan Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 No, that's physics. Bigger mass takes more effort to get moving. It is slower to accelerate. It is also harder to stop. Center of mass affects balance. Mid-swing a two-handed hammer is just as fast as a sword. But it takes slightly longer to get up to that speed. The difference is minimal tough, but it exists. And it might very well make a difference in battle. Umm, no. That's Hollywood. You don't use a hammer the way you would use a sword. If you did, only then it would be legitimate to say that it's slower due to physics. Different weapons employ different techniques, also based on physics, however, which make up for the relative speed differences. As I said before, that's physics. You can't cheat physics. You move mass either way. And while you don't use them both completely the same, in some cases you do. Even worse for hammers it they don't have a piercing tip, since they depend on large swings, and not short jabs/stabs. Of course, absolutely true. But all things being equal, different types of weapons, produced with the same level of quality and craftmanship, can not be compared and rated as "better or worse balanced than each other" which is how I interpreted your previous statement. A fine sword is just as balanced as a fine axe or mace or hammer or halberd or whatever. Nope, it's not. The center of mass for an axe will always be higher, making it inherenlty less balanced. 2 * YOU ARE A WRONGULARITY FROM WHICH NO RIGHT CAN ESCAPE! *Chuck Norris was wrong once - He thought HE made a mistake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrashMan Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Falchion FTW, note the notch for a disarming move... That doesnt' look like a functional fighting weapon. There is practicly no space between the curved crossguard and the handle for the fingers. Can you even grip it properly? * YOU ARE A WRONGULARITY FROM WHICH NO RIGHT CAN ESCAPE! *Chuck Norris was wrong once - He thought HE made a mistake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrashMan Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Reasonable realistic looking armor and weapons is fine, basing it on real world historical groups or figures isn't. This isn't medieval Germany, it is PE and they need to go with their own design concepts. It would be nice not to see a sword bigger than the person holding it in one hand though. Sez who? * YOU ARE A WRONGULARITY FROM WHICH NO RIGHT CAN ESCAPE! *Chuck Norris was wrong once - He thought HE made a mistake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elerond Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Even worse for hammers it they don't have a piercing tip, since they depend on large swings, and not short jabs/stabs. That depends whole on purpose which said hammer is made For example Bec de corbin tactics consist more from stabs than swings Where horseman's pick was for swing attacks when horseman rides past his enemies Maul was not primaly for fighting, but it's was for exampled it's recorded that English longbowmen in Battle of Agincourt used them mainly to drive stakes in, but in middle of battle they used them as improvised weapons. So they are not probably as good in fight as those weapons that are designed mainly to used as weapon. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forlorn Hope Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I suggest that everybody interested in arms and armor in the medieveal and Renaissance era should check out the MET's webpages. I got the chance to visit MET a couple of years ago and I was overjoyed. Since PE gets their inspiration for their world from the aforementioned era they should check out these too. Maybe they already have their sources figured out but more inspiration is never bad, eh? Check them out yourself: http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/afas16/hd_afas16.htm http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/arms/hd_arms.htm http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/rarm/hd_rarm.htm http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/aams/hd_aams.htm http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/galleries/arms-and-armor/377 http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/galleries/arms-and-armor/379 http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/galleries/arms-and-armor/373 And some of my favorite armors: http://www.metmuseum.org/Collections/search-the-collections/40014282 http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/works-of-art/27.177.1,2 http://www.metmuseum.org/Collections/search-the-collections/40001226?rpp=20&pg=1&gallerynos=371&ao=on&ft=*&pos=9 You get the picture. 2 "Maybe your grandiose vocabulary is a pathetic compensation for an insufficiency in the nether regions of your anatomy." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikolokolus Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I just had an idea (apologies if this was mentioned in the previous 7 pages or the thread preceding this one). But I think I'd like to see stamina penalties for wearing heavy armor for extended periods of time. I know this isn't going to be an arms and armor simulator, but I always found the idea of people sleeping in full-plate or trudging countless miles in the stuff a little bit silly. I don't know how this could be implemented fairly, so people don't cry that their heavy armor wearing paladin is being cheated, but it would be kind of cool to see a somewhat realistic treatment of full-plate armor in a game from a mechanics perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forlorn Hope Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) I think evading bonuses and the like for light armored characters are enough. I don't think fighters etc. should be punished for wearing heavy armor because they usually take the most hits and stamina is like hit points in the game. And besides, heavy armor wasn't so heavy as usually people think it was.. But sleeping in armor is silly. Edited October 22, 2012 by Forlorn Hope "Maybe your grandiose vocabulary is a pathetic compensation for an insufficiency in the nether regions of your anatomy." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wighnut Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I tend to agree on conservative armor options, but not too much realism. As long as Obsidian gets the shoulders right. As for weapons. I'd like to see some resemblance to the old BG2 art weapons in the descrition. Just an idea. Oh and please, i know many dont agree with me on this, but let there be a "hide helmet" option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furiku Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 http://i.imgur.com/1Rz32.jpg http://i.imgur.com/jkvwC.jpg http://i.imgur.com/rduR3.jpg http://i.imgur.com/2fOjC.jpg http://i.imgur.com/QVEKR.jpg http://i.imgur.com/0t9oA.jpg http://i.imgur.com/pkevd.jpg http://i.imgur.com/0sl5t.jpg http://www.romainter...bronzino/01.jpg http://sphotos-a.xx....780651565_n.jpg http://i.imgur.com/pLPS2.jpg http://i.imgur.com/hwmfL.jpg http://i.imgur.com/hP2Z6.jpg http://i.imgur.com/nmPPa.png http://i.imgur.com/FobS7.jpg http://i.imgur.com/guJeX.jpg http://i.imgur.com/BtdJC.jpg http://i.imgur.com/8hV1o.jpg (The last two might not actually be historical representations of male plate armor) Also, it was the fashion between noblemen at the time, they all had to have their ****-bulge, usually in portraits together with their dogs in close proximity to it...: http://upload.wikime...ronzino_053.jpg http://themurkyfring...3/codpiece1.jpg http://3.bp.blogspot...t_young_man.jpg https://s3.amazonaws...f3b3267c9d8.jpg http://i.imgur.com/bEZUu.jpg Apparently some women at that time were also indignant at the oversexualization of men, guess some things don't change that much over the years, just the target...: "Hear, Hear, Messeres, in your short clothing, to show off a pair of fine stockings you wear jackets and doublets so short that you show all the buttocks and the whole bum and rear, and not only from the rear but also in front you show off big, long, and thin codpieces that point upwards. This is to be considered horribly dishonest and in truth we can no longer bear to see it.” Anyway, a vote for codpieces (you can call it **** armor though so we have a pendant to boob plate), is a vote for realism! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasede Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) Furiku, that is disgusting, unrealistic and sexualizes men as sex-objects. We should plead that Obsidian doesn't take suggestions from you! Let's make out. Edited October 23, 2012 by Jasede 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agremont Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I would like the armor and weapon design in PE to be based on real world armors and weapons, with some slight fantasy touch added. Nothing over the top. More extravagant designs are ok for magical stuff though but still within reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karranthain Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 I suggest that everybody interested in arms and armor in the medieveal and Renaissance era should check out the MET's webpages. I got the chance to visit MET a couple of years ago and I was overjoyed. Since PE gets their inspiration for their world from the aforementioned era they should check out these too. Maybe they already have their sources figured out but more inspiration is never bad, eh? Check them out yourself: Thanks for the link, some interesting designs to be found there : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karranthain Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 If you'd have to pick one set of armour and one weapon type to be included in PE, what would be your choice? Post images and a small explanation why (use the following template for clarity). Armour Gothic Plate I've alwayed like the knight in plate with a greatsword archetype - and this type of plate armour I find particularly pleasing visually - especially the helmet design. Weapon Halberd A multipurpose killing tool - an interesting combination of an axe, a spear and a hook - all very useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karkarov Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Reasonable realistic looking armor and weapons is fine, basing it on real world historical groups or figures isn't. This isn't medieval Germany, it is PE and they need to go with their own design concepts. It would be nice not to see a sword bigger than the person holding it in one hand though. Sez who? Says anyone who knows anything about good world buidling or design. PE is not based on the real world, it shouldn't use real world designs. That isn't a large leap of logic. I don't want to see a German Landsknecht wandering around an elven ruin, it would straight out make no sense and be lazy to boot. I am also sure Obsidian is perfectly capable of looking up authentic real world armor/weapon designs on their own so I don't know why all these pictures keep getting spammed. Why don't we trust them to do their own research and let their art team create their own original gear designs to bring their world to life? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soranor Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Also remember that full plate armors were not worn when traveling through the wilderness for miles on foot. Encumbrance is for me a more important aspect than historically correct appearance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 (edited) If you'd have to pick one set of armour and one weapon type to be included in PE, what would be your choice? Armor: Well this was here before but I couldn't find a better example.. A bit of this and that. Combining convenience and effectiveness. The legs have plate, but the boots are still boots made for walking. Some overcoat, furs and cloak. Brash outfit telling who's the boss. The helm is a bit much for constant wear though. I'd like to see something you could wear and travel around in with reasonable comfort. Full plate or something you really can't even wear without a squire for help is maybe not perfect. Particularly as horser are probably not invented yet in Eternity. Can't be all about comfort either, because you just had 4 pitched battles earlier this week and are expecting to go toe to toe with an ogre tomorrow. But then again, you will have to walk 23 miles up a mountain for the fight. I'd like to see a distinction between military uniforms and adventurer outfits. Weapon: Bastard Sword Not posting a picture, but similar reasoning. Not as long that you couldn't conveniently carry it sheathed (like greatsword) or at all (morningstar with spikes in every direction). Long handle for 2-handed swinging gives plenty of oomph when necessary. Maximum effect for something that's practical to have around at all times. Maybe add a mace and a buckler hanging about somewehere for backup and for the times they'd work better. Edited October 24, 2012 by Jarmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karranthain Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 Reasonable realistic looking armor and weapons is fine, basing it on real world historical groups or figures isn't. This isn't medieval Germany, it is PE and they need to go with their own design concepts. It would be nice not to see a sword bigger than the person holding it in one hand though. Sez who? Says anyone who knows anything about good world buidling or design. PE is not based on the real world, it shouldn't use real world designs. That isn't a large leap of logic. I don't want to see a German Landsknecht wandering around an elven ruin, it would straight out make no sense and be lazy to boot. I am also sure Obsidian is perfectly capable of looking up authentic real world armor/weapon designs on their own so I don't know why all these pictures keep getting spammed. Why don't we trust them to do their own research and let their art team create their own original gear designs to bring their world to life? It would appear that you haven't actually read this topic. So let me just quote one post : Nobody is advocating that, if you read the whole thread. We are only talking about influences, not diktat. Furthermore, it's a cool thread for the military history geeks on the board (mea culpa) to have a romance and gender-free cave. The historical examples posted herein illustrate the point that was made by many people in this topic : if you only look, there's a wealth of interesting designs out there, which are rarely utilized in fantasy games. We're simply sharing what we personally find appealing. Landsknechts amidst Elven ruins would at least be original - I know I'd play a game that'd have that Among cRPG games, titles utilizing historical backdrops, such as Darklands or Lionheart (albeit the latter is rather inferior) are way more unique than generic fantasy setting #15, at least in my opinion. But that's for another topic. And lastly, this is what forums are for - you might as shut down them down if you don't want people discussing design/aestethic/story topics; Obsidian isn't obligated to listen to us, or even read this - but they might. To quote Monte Carlo, it's not diktat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elerond Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Funny thing about codpieces it that they were flat piece cloth until king Henry VIII got insecurity burst and started whole new trend in Europe, which was as ridicilous as boob plate, but who will say no for the king?. http://www.thehendricks.net/codpiece_history.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karkarov Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 And lastly, this is what forums are for - you might as shut down them down if you don't want people discussing design/aestethic/story topics; Obsidian isn't obligated to listen to us, or even read this - but they might. To quote Monte Carlo, it's not diktat. Right, and to quote the guy who replied to me and underlined my point about not copying historic real world designs. sez who Anyone who knows anything about the internet knows how to and can find all the reference material they want to look at pictures of medieval/renaissance arms and armor. If discussing medieval arms and armor, or sharing pics of them, is what you want this thread to be about you need to start a new one. This thread was clearly about asking Obsidian to make arm's and armor in game more realistic when I read it. Considering you are the OP I would think you would know that. Not that Obsidian ever had any plans to do something else, their own concept art shows they don't. This isn't Lionheart, it is based in fantasy not reality or a fantasy take on reality. Using any real world military unit designs would be, in short, a really bad idea. Your own reply to me even says you would like to see a real world Germanic Mercenary in full historic attire show up in game. So maybe you should stop quoting other people and be an adult by admitting that is exactly what you are advocating in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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