Gay and Lesbian Inclusiveness!

[Drowsy Emperor]

Besides, who would be so shallow that their sexual identity is the most important defining characteristic of their person.

 

If I'm gay that doesn't mean anyone else has to be? jesus

[c0wb0ycliche]

A gay person can't relate to heterosexual notions of love? What are we, a separate species?

 

A gay person most certainly can, but not in the same regard that you can relate to a character like yourself. Its uncomfortable to enjoy a universe that denies you exist. (coughSWTORcough:()

[oldmanpaco]

_{Gay romance, straight romances, lesbian romances. You know what they all have in common? Herpes.}

 

_{Let’s make sure to have some STD in this baby.}

Edited September 18, 2012 by oldmanpaco

[Sarog]

Secondly, and more importantly, whether they do or don't have romance options, its so that ALL players can relate to the game and the story. Would you make a game that only featured all white, male, tall, blonde, blue eyed people? Maybe if your name was Adolf. So that every player can relate its important to create a universe with diversity so that all players can relate and feel invested- whether a tall, blonde straight male or a short, dark skinned lesbian.

 

Respectfully, I must disagree with this line of argument.

 

You reduce relatability to its absolute most shallow low. A person's (or character's) identity is not who they have sex with, or their hair colour, ethnic background, or facial hair preferences. Who you are is about the whole picture, not individual aspects of that picture.

 

If you don't relate to a specific character whatsoever, but then suddenly found that you could relate to that character if it shared your sexual orientation, that makes you shallow. Just as it would be shallow to only relate to a character because of ethnicity, eye colour, or cheekbone structure. That sort of tribal thinking, that fixates on one shallow characteristic and elevates that characteristic to being of singular importance overiding everything else, is unenlightened no matter which you apply it.

 

Characters should be seen as people. Not as being representative of a particular group of people in order to try to boost the franchise's popularity with real life demographics. I sympathize with why you feel this is important, but all it does is compromise the integrity of the narrative with out-of-universe concerns.

[deleteduser]

If I remember correctly, the way we handled it in FNV was pretty much "Hey Design team, here are these perks (Confirmed Bachelor/Cherchez la Femme). Please use them if you wish," followed by a couple of emails/reminders (ie, my requests to have non-playersexual characters). The only "mandated" gay characters were Arcade and Veronica, because Josh had envisioned them that way.

[Troller]

_{Gay romance, straight romances, lesbian romances. You know what they all have in common? Herpes.}

 

_{Let’s make sure to have some STD in this baby.}

hmm AIDS, with no condoms to prevent it, since its medieval fantasy...

[Longknife]

Besides, who would be so shallow that their sexual identity is the most important defining characteristic of their person.

 

If I'm gay that doesn't mean anyone else has to be? jesus

 

Again....

 

Please imagine a game where the game gives you prompts to flirt exclusively with men, and men regularly hit on you as if it's the social norm.

How would you feel? I sure as hell wouldn't play it, I may support gay rights and I don't discriminate at all, but I'm hella homophobe when it comes to my interactions with other men. Dunno why, just am.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Longknife

[deleteduser]

Besides, who would be so shallow that their sexual identity is the most important defining characteristic of their person.

 

For many people, it can be - in the sense that being gay is an identity, as much as any race/religion/what-have-you. Being gay determined many things about my world, including how I interacted with family, with strangers, the opposite (and same) sex, my political struggles, and so forth.

 

 

Er, and as far as Eternity goes, I like having gay/bi/queer NPCs in the way FNV did, but I don't particularly care one way or another for romance. I'm still slowly playing through Mass Effect 3, and while I liked that my Shepard finally had a romance option developed as far out as the 'straight' options (which was not the case in ME2), it isn't doing much for me as a gamer.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Mustang

[Monte Carlo]

Let's go back to the original design goals, i.e. to capture old-school isometric tactical fantasy CRPGs. These were before Bioware turned into an emo joke with legions of Joss Wheedon fans.

 

These games were not predicated on romances of any sort with the exception of BG2 which has four (count them) minor, text-only, relationships which were completely avoidable.

 

From that minor feature in 2001 we now have too many threads on this subject (couldn't the OP have added to one of the others?). And this is because people clearly want this game to be like Dragon Age or Dragon Age 2 of Meh Effect or whatever other piece of Bioware dating-sim-nonsense they were playing before.

 

Please try to understand that the majority of people don't want (a) ANY romances (b) ANY references to sex or sexuality and © view it as a waste of developer's time.

 

Thanks.

[SanguineAngel]

What if the focus stayed on the actual storyline rather being distracted by clumsy attempts at doubling as a romance simulator? That way no one is excluded, and the game isn't bogged down by trying to substitute for people's real life emotional needs and can simply focus on telling a story.

 

Yes, and romance has no place in stories!

 

Edit: Sorry, I should also contribute.

 

For my part, I believe that the question of sexual orientation, whether straight or homosexual should only come to the fore if it's relevant. If romance and sex does come into the story, then I think it is crucial that not just sexual orientation but also gender roles in general be handled with respect and dignity. Above all, I hope whatever the story that the characters are well written and expertly presented and provide an intellectually and emotionally engaging, respectful story.

 

That being said, characters come in all shapes and sizes. Even if it's not being directly addressed, I hope that the characters created represent all walks of life and are all handled with due care, respect and attention.

Edited September 18, 2012 by SanguineAngel

[KozuBlue]

If there are to be romances, I would love there to be a gay option. It seems absurd but it really is pretty cool to have the choice to do that when for so many years there hasn't been one. And I trust Obsidian to do it right.

[Longknife]

What if the focus stayed on the actual storyline rather being distracted by clumsy attempts at doubling as a romance simulator? That way no one is excluded, and the game isn't bogged down by trying to substitute for people's real life emotional needs and can simply focus on telling a story.

 

I don't even think OP is asking for homosexual relationships. He's just asking for homosexuals. This has nothing to do with the romance topic.

 

He compared his wants to what Fallout New Vegas got. New Vegas doesn't let you have a homosexual boyfriend or girlfriend. All New Vegas did was acknowledged that homosexual people exist and that they're normal human beings just like you and me, and that not every gay man has an outrageous lisp and that not every gay woman wants to immediately bump pelvises with every female she finds and/or that she's butch as hell.

 

Nothing more, nothing less.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Longknife

[Blablachar]

If there are to be romances, I would love there to be a gay option. It seems absurd but it really is pretty cool to have the choice to do that when for so many years there hasn't been one. And I trust Obsidian to do it right.

 

This perfectly sums up the issue of romances- none of them then, so this topic butthurrt will end as well.

[NoxNoctum]

I don't want to see them filling some "quota" like Bioware does.

 

Their only focus should be good story, good gameplay and good and characters.

 

Really romance is just lame anyways in these kinds of games.

 

I especially disliked how in DA:O you couldn't be nice to the assassin elf dude (can't remember his name anymore), without him taking it as a comeon. I mean seriously?

Edited September 18, 2012 by NoxNoctum

[Darkpriest]

ughh... another one of these...

 

I do not get it... why is it so important to get homosexualism in games...

 

It might be a choice, if it has some merit... going for that option just because, is plain stupid and takes away resources from some other, possibly more story influencing character...

 

I'd stick to normal relationships, and put more focus on the world, history, quests and so on, than on a writing of a character, which could possibly feel forced onto the world...

 

If you put in homosexuality, you should also put in world's attitude toward such... Different cultures, different views, somewhere repercussions, in other place freedom, etc.

 

TBH personally I am not that much interested in romance options, but I won't mind them if they are good.

[Blablachar]

Maybe someday you'll learn to control yourselves like normal people do. You don't see normal men constantly obsessing over breasts, now do you?!

 

Nope.

 

Well, unless those are teenagers or hyper libido individuals (quite rare though).

[Longknife]

ughh... another one of these...

 

I do not get it... why is it so important to get homosexualism in games...

 

It might be a choice, if it has some merit... going for that option just because, is plain stupid and takes away resources from some other, possibly more story influencing character...

 

I'd stick to normal relationships, and put more focus on the world, history, quests and so on, than on a writing of a character, which could possibly feel forced onto the world...

 

If you put in homosexuality, you should also put in world's attitude toward such... Different cultures, different views, somewhere repercussions, in other place freedom, etc.

 

TBH personally I am not that much interested in romance options, but I won't mind them if they are good.

 

Ok has ANYONE in this thread played New Vegas?

 

We're literally talking about 1-3 lines of dialog that reveals that some characters are infact gay/lesbian, nothing more.

I fail to see how this eats up time and resources or otherwise gets in the way.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Longknife

[Entropious]

The OP makes it clear that the fellow wishes for the game to be sodomite-friendly, that is, he wants it to fulfill a socio-political requirement of the radically liberal West. This has nothing to do with the game quality.

 

Has anyone ever seen, in a review of Fallout/Baldur's Gate etc. issues concerning homosexuality? Did anyone note "the game is great, but no homo, so it gets a lower score"? Be reasonable.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Entropious

[Pangur]

No offense to anyone, but personally, I'm strongly against gay/lesbian options in this game. I'm not homophobic, but I'm really tired of homosexual theme being forced upon players. Actually, in ME 3, I felt kinda discriminated (being a straight female), because if you play with a non-imported female character and let Ashley live, you'll basically end up with no straight romantic options at all.

 

Or, for that matter, better exclude any sex/romance from the game entirely.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Pangur

[licketysplit]

I don't want to see them filling some "quota" like Bioware does.

 

Their only focus should be good story, good gameplay and good and characters.

 

Pretty much this. I don't like people asking devs to put fanservice specific story elements in their games. If they want to do it, let them. If not, so be it.

Edited September 18, 2012 by licketysplit

[ShadySands]

Let's go back to the original design goals, i.e. to capture old-school isometric tactical fantasy CRPGs. These were before Bioware turned into an emo joke with legions of Joss Wheedon fans.

 

These games were not predicated on romances of any sort with the exception of BG2 which has four (count them) minor, text-only, relationships which were completely avoidable.

 

From that minor feature in 2001 we now have too many threads on this subject (couldn't the OP have added to one of the others?). And this is because people clearly want this game to be like Dragon Age or Dragon Age 2 of Meh Effect or whatever other piece of Bioware dating-sim-nonsense they were playing before.

 

Please try to understand that the majority of people don't want (a) ANY romances (b) ANY references to sex or sexuality and © view it as a waste of developer's time.

 

Thanks.

 

I'm not entirely convinced that the majority of people don't want any romances or sexual references. At least not on this board anyway, I believe the poll in the romance thread has quite a bit more people for it than against it.

[deleteduser]

you'll basically end up with no straight romantic options at all.

So essentially, in the way that we've had no homosexual romance options at all... until the last few years, and even then, very sparsely. (Just making a point - I personally don't care if Eternity has romance or not).

 

I imagine it will be handled like FNV - there won't be gay characters/romances unless Josh and Avellone envision their characters that way, and they will most certainly not be 'forced' on the player. Sometimes in FNV, you would discover a character was gay, just through normal conversation - just like real life. It was usually just a line or two, and did not affect the game other than to give you a little more insight into the character.

[NoxNoctum]

To me this is like someone demanding that Tolkien (or I guess GRRM would be a better example) put something in their next book to fit their particular group. It's just silly . Let them write a story and let the chips fall where they may.

Edited September 18, 2012 by NoxNoctum

[C2B]

I'm against romance itself (unless it's a major, well handled theme in the game) but Gay and Lesbian charachters (if they are in) should be included in a similiar way F:NV did it. (as in well and respectful handled)

Edited September 18, 2012 by C2B

[Longknife]

Seriously to me this is as ridiculous as someone demanding that Tolkien (or I guess GRMM would be a better example) put something in their next book to fit their particular group. It's just dumb. Let them write a story and let the chips fall where they may.

 

But it's barely story relevant. It's no more story relevant than a guy saying "hold on, let me ask my wife, she'd know. I'll meet you back here in an hour."

It's no more story relevant than some guy being black and that's that, with his skin color having no plot relevance or story importance other than it just being who he is.