1 PC plus companions, or create multiple characters (plus companions?)

[Paul D]

I am assuming an NPC would have some form of formulaic composition, with stats and behaviour (response to environment) incorporated. If you create your own characters, the level of automated response may be difficult; ergo, you may need to role-play each character.

 

I have nothing against that by the way; in fact I think it would be cool. If it were possible to have a mixed party NPC's and PC's the party dynamics, and gameplay would be interesting.

 

It would be fantastic if we had the choice. This way people who would prefer PC + NPC companions (as per script), PC + NPC from adventure guild, or PC + multiple PC incl. NPC's if desired.

 

Probably a programatic challenge to achieve such a blend of potential options.

[ddillon]

My advice, if this is something you guys really want... make some noise.

 

I prefer allowing players to create as many characters as desired (limited only by maximum party size). I enjoy being able to encounter and recruit NPCs as in BG, BG2, DA:O, etc, but I would prefer to have the option to create multiple adventurers for reasons Shevek and others have mentioned.

 

I do not favor the "Adventurer's Guild" concept. When I create multiple adventurers, I imagine them as companions beginning the adventure together. Recruiting adventurers in a generic fashion from such a guild (and paying to do so) is NOT what I want.

 

If you worry about early game balance, consider a spawn system that increases enemy numbers based on party size (at least for early encounters if not for all encounters).

[Dianjabla]

Well, I said it elsewhere so I reiterate: probably wouldn't do it myself, but *if* there was a multiplayer option available like in BG, then by all means have multiple generated PCs controllable by one player. If that's what floats your boat, that's cool. There was still only one child of Bhaal out of them, though. I can understand the hesitancy regarding limited number of NPC companions - what if there aren't enough that you like? I'd much prefer the broad swath of companions available from the BG series especially if they'll fight amongst each other or fight you over certain courses of action. But then, as always, Torment pulled it off and I didn't even notice.

[Jozape]

Also, being allowed to make more than one does not force you to make more than one. If you just want PCs + NPCs, you should be able to do that too. This game should be about options. Being able to craft the entire party was a significant option in several previous titles and it should be an option in PE.

 

Exactly. What people are asking here wouldn't take away from those who expect an experience closer to Planescape: Torment. It'd be adding an experience closer to Wasteland, Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, or The Temple of Elemental Evil for those that want it.

[C2B]

Creating your own party (including backgrounds) is something I can totally get behind as compared to having many but non-fleshed out companions.

[draft1983]

personally i loved the characters in bg1 and especially bg2. If the option of creating your whole party resulted in obsidians npc companions becomign obsolete then i have to say i'm against it. I really love doignt he companians quests, hearign their storys and listening to them argue and fall out with eachother, it really adds to the immersion and the feel of the world as a whole, really makes it feel as if there are more things happenign to the world than just to yourself. I really feel the deepness and complexity of the npc's really added to the story in bg2 and without them the game would ahve been alot poorer for it.

[draft1983]

And people saying about how great it was in wasteland.. that was wasteland, if you want that then play wasteland. This is a different game and if major things liek this are changed then im sure it will lose backers that purposely backed the game for what they have read the "core" of the game will be. When you walk into an area/inn etc and one of your companions knows the inn keeper, or the lord etc and they have a conversation or start bickering about something and this opens a new quest.. i love this, and will be lost if you can only create 6 chars yourself. ofc if the option is there that obsidians npc companians are included and the option of create how ever many members u wish at the start then fine.... that player chooses to lose alot of story and background, their choice. But if it's one or the other then obsidians npc's please, thats a big draw to this game for me, i miss the minsc' etc. I really want obsidina to make the game they had planned and not get pulled away from that

[slopesandsam]

I actually far prefer creating only a single player character. Having deep, interesting companions is one of the major selling points of PE, for me.

 

Not that I oppose giving other players the option of creating an entire party, it's just that I would never play the game that way. Characters into which the developers had breathed life and emotion? Or a bunch of empty puppets whose stats I'd juked?

[Jozape]

And people saying about how great it was in wasteland.. that was wasteland, if you want that then play wasteland. This is a different game and if major things liek this are changed then im sure it will lose backers that purposely backed the game for what they have read the "core" of the game will be. When you walk into an area/inn etc and one of your companions knows the inn keeper, or the lord etc and they have a conversation or start bickering about something and this opens a new quest.. i love this, and will be lost if you can only create 6 chars yourself. ofc if the option is there that obsidians npc companians are included and the option of create how ever many members u wish at the start then fine.... that player chooses to lose alot of story and background, their choice. But if it's one or the other then obsidians npc's please, thats a big draw to this game for me, i miss the minsc' etc. I really want obsidina to make the game they had planned and not get pulled away from that

 

It was never one or the other. Obsidian has already decided to focus on a single created player character + joinable companions. The supporters of a fully created party in this topic are merely asking for additional playstyle options.

[incubus9]

If someone wants to role-play a party versus role-playing a single character with companions, there shouldn't be an issue with this. The first RPGs I ever played was the Gold Box D&D adventures like Pool of Radiance and Curse of the Azure Bonds and I loved them. It is great if you love to focus on combat and exploring. I would say that 5 silent characters will detract from the immersion that 1 PC + companions would give you. If adding multiple character creation isn't too expensive then it should be added.

[dlux]

I would like to reuse this quote from the romance thread:

It's a waste and draws significant resources from other parts of the game!

lol

 

I personally find having a PC only party rather boring in a story driven game. They cannot interact with each other or the PC like they did in Baldur's Gate for example. This is also supposed to be a story driven game just like BG or PS:T, so I want more story, not less!

But if it is included as an OPTION, then that is fine by me. I am not going to whine about it just like the romance haters do for example - I will just not use this feature. If I want to play a PC only game, then I will play "Legend of Grimrock". It makes sense to have only PCs in this game seeing that it is a combat and not a story driven game.

[draft1983]

 

It was never one or the other. Obsidian has already decided to focus on a single created player character + joinable companions. The supporters of a fully created party in this topic are merely asking for additional playstyle options.

 

I'm just concerned that adding such big changes is goignt o use up too much resource and move the project in a different direction. So far i have heard "i dont want isometric" "i want first person" "i want create whole party" "i don't want romances" "i want centaurs" "i don't want dwarves" "i want aliens" "i like dibalo so i want zombies" 2make it like wasteland" "3d portraits" "steampunk" "no elves" blah blah. I was excited aboutt he game obsidina was selling to me, not some hashed up mess that people want put in because it was in a game they liked 3 weeks ago.

[Merin]

It was never one or the other. Obsidian has already decided to focus on a single created player character + joinable companions. The supporters of a fully created party in this topic are merely asking for additional playstyle options.

 

I'm just concerned that adding such big changes is goignt o use up too much resource and move the project in a different direction. So far i have heard "i dont want isometric" "i want first person" "i want create whole party" "i don't want romances" "i want centaurs" "i don't want dwarves" "i want aliens" "i like dibalo so i want zombies" 2make it like wasteland" "3d portraits" "steampunk" "no elves" blah blah. I was excited aboutt he game obsidina was selling to me, not some hashed up mess that people want put in because it was in a game they liked 3 weeks ago.

 

Except for the following -

 

1 - they are in very, very early stages of developing the game; ultimately they will make the game they want to the best way they can, but there's not much set in stone yet... they have said this, multiple developers, multiple times

2 - they are not only watching the forums, and saying they are, they are directing people to the forums and soliciting opinions; case in point, I had thought the 1 PC + NPC companions was set in stone, but one of the developers comes in and says "if you want this, make noise" - so we who want this are doing what the developer asked

3 - I've played lots of Wasteland, thank you... you want a game with companions you recruit, you have TONS of options for this in RPGs - what options do those of us who want to create our party have? Wasteland 2 is coming out, there's that indie game you mentioned... and then SoZ, I guess... leaving us having to go back like a decade or more for options, and trust me, I've played IWD to death... meanwhile, even avoiding BioWare you can find plenty of RPGs where you make 1 PC and recruit followers - Bethesda, for example, or Drakensang.

 

Overall, two things are key -

 

1 - Obsidian will make the game they are going to make; they are not going to make a game they don't want to.... we are donators, pledging to their vision, not publishers or investors with any control over what they do... don't worry about this

2 - Obsidian is asking for what contributors want. They want us to speak up. The developers in interviews and on the KS updates have said, time and again, they don't want to make something that we don't want to play.

 

Put aside your fears and just let your voice be heard on your preferences. And don't fear that any amount of clamoring will get full voice, FP POV, real time hack/slash combat, etc. They said spirit of Planescape: Torment, Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale. Two of those games you could create your party, two of those games you could recruit your party... all three you could solo if you wanted. Expect that balance in design, at worst.

[Pangur]

Actually, a PC-only party is what I dislike in RPGs. I find it hard to role-play more than 1 character. And I really love interacting with companions, learning their stories, gaining their trust, watching relationships within the party... that kind of thing. Without it the party (and the game to some extent) feels kinda... hollow.

 

But, well, if it's an option, I'm fine with it.

[Gyges]

I purchased Storm of Zehir but never played it when i found out it didnt have companions like NWN2 and MoTB. So my stance is pretty obvious on this.

[Shevek]

I love making my own party. In BG2, I would custom make all their portraits. I would choose their soundsets. I would even obsess a bit too long over the details of their histories.

 

From a roleplaying standpoint, I felt more connected to my silent group of adventurers than I did with the pre-fab NPCs.

 

From a munchkin standpoint, nothing matches the replayability in going through the game with a different custom party. That completely changes the combat experience. BG2 was a dream game for putting together a party and running through a bunch of dungeons. I mean, ya, I could do that with IWD 1/2 also but BG2/ToB was so much more expansive.

 

I ran several duos and trios. My fave being a Half Elven Ranger/Cleric (it was cheating in BG2 because it got all Cleric AND Druid spells, lol) and a Fighter/Thief. I sometimes ran it as a trio and added in a Gnomish Fighter/Illusionist. This allowed me to pick up the occaisional NPC for quest purposes.

 

Sometimes, I would ignore the NPCs completely and just make a whole slate of characters. When I did this, I would install all difficulty mods just to see how I would do. No other game gave me this many options in how I could play.

 

Thanks to the modding community and the ability to make custom parties, BG2 was an incredibly flexible game. It was a story driven rpg AND it was a difficult dungeon hack. It was one game that could fit many types of play.

 

I would love to see Project Eternity accomplish the same feat.

[Merin]

I love making my own party. In BG2, I would custom make all their portraits. I would choose their soundsets. I would even obsess a bit too long over the details of their histories.

 

From a roleplaying standpoint, I felt more connected to my silent group of adventurers than I did with the pre-fab NPCs.

 

Yepyep.

 

And for role-playing replayability... a ton of recruitable NPCs gives you more options, sure... but few companions (or forced companions) and suddenly things get overly repetitive.

 

I like NPC companions. I like my own party more.

[Tale]

I really like the adventurer guild idea. I mean I really like it.

[Shevek]

The adventure guild idea is basically what Final Fantasy Tactics did way back when. You could recruit someone for a price and then build them up however you wanted.

 

I like the adventure guild idea too since, the dev said earlier, it would clear up issues with pacing that occur from having too many characters early on.

[Merin]

I really like the adventurer guild idea. I mean I really like it.

 

Is this like Might & Magic / Bard's Tale / Mars Saga/Mines of Titan? While interesting, and I'm not against it per se, it does feel a bit like a factory churning out adventurers... and it usually existed in games where, especially at lower levels, mortality was pretty bad.

[Shevek]

Merin: If they put in stuff like prefab NPCs killing eachother, ala-BG2, mortality may exist.

[TCJ]

In BG2, you could just start a multiplayer game and create as many party members as you wanted, should you desire to have a PC-created party, or at least partially-created. Why not re-use that system? Since it's put under multiplayer, it won't be the default, so players will actually be encouraged to play with a single PC and all the original companions.

[Elerond]

Only problem what I see in creating your own party is how you can fit on story if it is desinged from that viewpoint that there is only one pc character. Of course there is ways like adventure guild or if your own house is Inn then there could always (or in timely bases) NPC which you can recruit (that is to say create and take with you). But these approaches can leave tent in main story arc if there were writen something for orginal companions. Although if you can freely choose companions as Obsidian is already hinted then I would see any real story wise harm from it other than when player gets this ability to recruit new PC and how many them s/he can recruit during game. Because I don't think that player should have full retinue from start of the game and player should not have ability to use these his or her own creations as cannon fodder.

[Merin]

yup, makes me sad to think about characters who haven't been made who have died XD silly tilly! n.n

 

Not that silly. I still weep when I think about two blocks west, one block south of the Adventurer's Guild in Skara Brae, and the piles and piles of adventurer corpses lain there.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Merin

[Redwulf]

I have played both kinds of games, and to tell the truth, I think I did enjoy creating my whole party at the start in Icewind Dale better, in most ways. That is only because I gave each member a personality and I wrote in long bio's for each. So they were my team, and I enjoyed walking the snowy depths with them most of all.

At the same time, I liked how in Baldur's Gate and Knights of the Old Republic how the companions that join you have their own unique personalities and quirks. Come on, who doesn't love being called a "Meat-Bag" by HK-47? And I can't forget Boo the space-hamster either "Go for the eyes Boo!". I think if those behind Project Eternity can make interesting companions, that give us a lot of input, and even argue among each other, I will be content with just making my main character at the start. Making those companions interesting is of vital importance for the enjoyment of the game though, if the companions are dull and uninteresting, the whole quality of the game will suffer greatly. I think Obsidian knows this.