Ouch, Bioware... Dragon Age 2, and now this?

[Amentep]

I think it's a case of badly managed expectations. BG1 and BG2 were not really advertised as "all your choices r us" or something. I haven't followed the ME3 development nor read any of the ads, but jeebus it (the banners) was all over the internet on every website, including sites not related to video games at all. If those ads promised some kind of "your choices matter to us", then I can understand the outrage. Maybe ignorance really is bliss sometimes?

 

Edit to add: As it was, I mostly got the game and played it to satisfy curiosity. The ending was poor, but not worthy of "nerd rage". Biggest disappointment was the feeling of linearity and the lack of party members from ME2 (some of which were infinitely more interesting than the ME1 ones imnsho).

 

I haven't got to the end yet, but having been spoiled somewhat on the basics on it, I can't help but wonder if the problem is that they were hamstrung by certain choices they made early on in ME1 and (i suspect) the desire to be able to continue with the world of Mass Effect (if not the Shepard character) past ME3.

 

Mind you as far as I recall Bioware have said that you create your Shepard within a certain set parameters (ie Shepard wasn't going to be a fly fisherman from Arcturus) so there has always been an inherently limiting concept with ME that the characters and stories were going to have certain things that always happened (at least that's how I always took it).

[Humanoid]

I can't help but wonder if the problem is that they were hamstrung by certain choices they made early on in ME1 and (i suspect) the desire to be able to continue with the world of Mass Effect (if not the Shepard character) past ME3.

 

Mind you as far as I recall Bioware have said that you create your Shepard within a certain set parameters (ie Shepard wasn't going to be a fly fisherman from Arcturus) so there has always been an inherently limiting concept with ME that the characters and stories were going to have certain things that always happened (at least that's how I always took it).

 

If they designed ME3 around any intention to be able to continue the universe past the ending, then it'd be an almost unrecognisable gameworld. It's basically designed with the opposite of that intention.

 

And as much as I don't like direct comparisons, there's that other fixed-protagonist recent CRPG which seems to deal with the limiting nature of that format much more elegantly and got unprecedented praise for it's C&C.

 

---

 

At any rate, I have no real emotional investment with the ME series since I'm a latecomer who played the games out of order (ME2 mid-2010 and ME1 a couple months later), but I can definitely see how much more I would have been disappointed by the series' direction had I played things the right way around. I imagine I had far less issue than most into being railroaded into working with Cerberus in ME2 than veteran players would have been, because all the information I got would have been "these people resurrected you, how nice of them." Most of the plot inconsistencies and wild character redesigns would have slipped right past me.

[Amentep]

I can't help but wonder if the problem is that they were hamstrung by certain choices they made early on in ME1 and (i suspect) the desire to be able to continue with the world of Mass Effect (if not the Shepard character) past ME3.

 

Mind you as far as I recall Bioware have said that you create your Shepard within a certain set parameters (ie Shepard wasn't going to be a fly fisherman from Arcturus) so there has always been an inherently limiting concept with ME that the characters and stories were going to have certain things that always happened (at least that's how I always took it).

 

If they designed ME3 around any intention to be able to continue the universe past the ending, then it'd be an almost unrecognisable gameworld. It's basically designed with the opposite of that intention.

 

 

From what I've heard about the end-game I don't think they broke anything that couldn't, conceivably, be "fixed" to give a ME universe similar but certainly still feeling post-Reaper invasion. But maybe I'll feel differently once I get to the end.

[Oner]

It's just how creative work happens, never heard of a band than managed to keep making awesome for more than an album or two, either.

Stop listening to ****ty music then. I've heard (of) plenty.

Heck, Jeremy Soule, Alex Brandon, etc are all famous 'cause they made awesome music several times.

[Raithe]

The thing is, if you're comparing it to the DX:HR ending.. The ending for that game fit within the story of what had come before, and where it was going. It wasn't a great ending, but it was coherent with everything else, and it suited the game.

 

The ME3 ending just..has that violent reversal from choices mattering. And in fact, it seems geared towards making choices that you had made earlier.. not matter. Throw in that it's not coherent with everything else. And that it directly contravenes everything Bioware had been saying about it before hand...

 

"We won't give you an a, b, or c ending" and you end up having to select button a, b, or c...

[Volourn]

^{ME3 ending > BG2 ending}

 

^{No contest.}

 

^{ME3 ending > ME3 beginning}

 

^{No contest.}

[Amentep]

You know I can't really remember BG2's expansion ending. I vaguely remember the Jon Irenicus from BG2 proper end. Of course I usually never played BG2 through to the end when I played it. Have more half-started campaigns in the IE engine than I think any other games I played...lol.

 

Most of the time and end is an end; there are a few that disappoint me but if the game is fun I'll keep playing it. I hated Secret of Mana's ending with a passion (easily one of the top worst game endings - at least the US English Translation it came out with - I've ever played) and yet I kept playing the game because it was fun (then ChronoTrigger came out and I never bothered with Secret of Mana again).

 

I'll be interested to see how I feel finishing ME3 (so far I'm not as fond of ME3's gameplay as I was about ME1 and 2).

[Volourn]

BG2's ending is simply you kill Irenicus and that's it.

 

TOB's ending is you kill that wannabe goddess (one of BIO's two worst bosses ever). That's it.. Oops, oh yea, you can be good/evil god or stay mortal. L0L DEEP AND SPECIAL LOL

[Oner]

A slightly different take on the endings: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/5496-The-Positive-Side-of-Mass-Effect-3s-Ending-Drama

[Malcador]

Damn, he's more annoying on camera than he is via text.

[Nepenthe]

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/260/index/10245444/1

 

Not trying to turn attention to other things, are they?

 

Kind of an unceremonious end to DA2, and about as close to an admission of ****ing up I've yet seen from Bioware. Looks like humble pie's on the menu at Koutouki this week.

[Raithe]

http://social.biowar...ndex/10245444/1

 

Not trying to turn attention to other things, are they?

 

Kind of an unceremonious end to DA2, and about as close to an admission of ****ing up I've yet seen from Bioware. Looks like humble pie's on the menu at Koutouki this week.

 

I still haven't gotten around to trying the DA2 dlc.. hell, I haven't even picked them up yet.. and I'm not in any rush to do so...

[Meshugger]

:lol:

[tripleRRR]

The sad part is the explanations in that image aren't all that far off from what you get in game...

[greylord]

BG2's ending is simply you kill Irenicus and that's it.

 

TOB's ending is you kill that wannabe goddess (one of BIO's two worst bosses ever). That's it.. Oops, oh yea, you can be good/evil god or stay mortal. L0L DEEP AND SPECIAL LOL

 

You have to fight the big bad end boss who wants to take all the power and become the next Deity...if you beat her you can take her power instead and become a deity, or you can stay on Faerun. Either way determines what happens between you and your Love Interest/significant other. If you stay it typically has some sort of happily ever after, if you leave something else. Also, if I remember correctly it details what happens to each of your other companiosn that traveled with you.

 

So...overall...much more in depth and much more resolving on your situation and the rest of your companions that travelled with you than ME3 or most other games.

 

No Red light, Green Light in that ending.

[greylord]

You should have put spoilers on the LotR parody of the game...

 

[Volourn]

"You have to fight the big bad end boss who wants to take all the power and become the next Deity...if you beat her you can take her power instead and become a deity, or you can stay on Faerun. Either way determines what happens between you and your Love Interest/significant other. If you stay it typically has some sort of happily ever after, if you leave something else. Also, if I remember correctly it details what happens to each of your other companiosn that traveled with you."

 

If that's your example of 'deep'... you lose. That's shallow and simplistic.

[MrBrown]

http://social.biowar...ndex/10245444/1

 

Not trying to turn attention to other things, are they?

 

Kind of an unceremonious end to DA2, and about as close to an admission of ****ing up I've yet seen from Bioware. Looks like humble pie's on the menu at Koutouki this week.

 

It's also a pretty straight confirmation of DA3.

[tripleRRR]

Not like the end of DA2 wasn't a pretty straight confirmation of DA3....

[BobSmith101]

http://social.biowar...ndex/10245444/1

 

Not trying to turn attention to other things, are they?

 

Kind of an unceremonious end to DA2, and about as close to an admission of ****ing up I've yet seen from Bioware. Looks like humble pie's on the menu at Koutouki this week.

 

It's also a pretty straight confirmation of DA3.

 

Yet another new character. After DA2 and ME3 no way would I believe a word of whatever bull**** they try to spin.

Edited March 20, 2012 by BobSmith101

[Bos_hybrid]

Yet another new character.

 

Did anyone actually want to play as Hawke again?

Edited March 20, 2012 by Bos_hybrid

[Guest Slinky]

I want to be a dragon.

[Bos_hybrid]

I want to be a dragon.

 

Please don't give bio ideas.

[Morgoth]

In hindsight, I found DA2 to be the better game than ME3 overall, mostly due to the fact that it actually felt like an RPG, while ME3 was the worst in the series when it comes to Role-Playing. And plot holes. It shows that a hack like Mac Walters cannot reach the expertise and skill of the mighty David Gaider.

 

Either way, open-world + possible Frostbite 2 engine should be good. If they skip the stupid marketing videos and stop putting cameos (journalists, game sluts etc.) into their games, people just might take them seriously again. Heck, could even threaten the TES series in terms of sales.

 

Obligatory:

 

ME1 > ME2 > ME3

DA2 > DA:O

Edited March 20, 2012 by Morgoth

[greylord]

In hindsight, I found DA2 to be the better game than ME3 overall, mostly due to the fact that it actually felt like an RPG, while ME3 was the worst in the series when it comes to Role-Playing. And plot holes. It shows that a hack like Mac Walters cannot reach the expertise and skill of the mighty David Gaider.

 

Either way, open-world + possible Frostbite 2 engine should be good. If they skip the stupid marketing videos and stop putting cameos (journalists, game sluts etc.) into their games, people just might take them seriously again. Heck, could even threaten the TES series in terms of sales.

 

Obligatory:

 

ME1 > ME2 > ME3

DA2 > DA:O

 

You know, I don't agree with your ranking (especially in regards to the DA's) BUT...something about the way you phrase it and say it simply just make me want to say...sometimes I just love your posts. Absolutely Ace in your statement.