Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate II Enhanced Editions Announced

[Gorth]

A shame converting the assets to the ToEE engine isn't feasable.

 

Sure, supplying grief is my specialty

 

I feel a bit cheerful today... what is your advice oh griefmaster?

 

Not sure what I think about the whole thing really. Mildly curious?

 

If they really wanted to add something, they would come up with a game engine that was configurable, so you could mix and match 2d/3d (so you could add 3d avatars on 2d backgrounds, rather than pre-rendered "sprites"), allowed for easier change of rulesets (nothing hard coded into the engine) etc. One more online client however is a killer. When Origin gets uninstalled again shortly, Steam will be the only thing barely tolerated on my PC.

[Humanoid]

I for one like the implied focus on iOS. Not because I want to play it - I don't own a smartphone or tablet - but purely as a market tester. I have no intention of replaying BG2 on any platform - I'm burnt out on micromanagement of large parties - and have no desire to play BG1 (which I've never played) either. Instead I just watch in the hope of any potential success of a non-twitch RPG spurring other developers to explore this avenue for new games.

 

It's the same principle in which I was happy to see Broken Sword 2 rereleased despite no new content (graphical and interface improvements only) - it was another step in the path that lead to Revolution now working on three brand new 2D adventure games.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Humanoid

[Spider]

I'll most likely get this for the ipad. It just seems like it's a perfect fit for that. And it has been a long time since I played BG. But I am worried that it'll be a bit dull if I can't get the mods I like. They did mention a new difficulty level though, so my one hope is that they basically incorporate SCS into the game by default as a difficulty option. That'd probably be enough for me to be happy.

[Nepenthe]

More advertising mindlessly repeated for your enjoyment: http://www.neogamr.net/news/beamdogs-trent-oster-talks-about-baldurs-gate-enhanced-edition !

[Gfted1]

Im actually looking forward to having it on my iPad.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Why is it so unreasonable to ask for 'one concrete improvement that seems substantial'?

Zoom.

That one I really don't get. I mean, it would be useful if there were lots of hidden detail in the backdrops that could be brought out by zoom, as with looking at a 18 MP photo, but it isn't like that. It's like looking at a 1 MP photo on a 1280x720 monitor. You can zoom in all you like, if you find big pixels wonderful. Don't know why you'd want to zoom out further given that BG already has a decent area map and at any modern res stuff is already small. Seems pretty much entirely like them trying to tie the conversion to OpenGL (which is very useful for things like ARM given their relatively weak performance relative to desktop) into something practical for PC.

 

I'm not implacably opposed to the whole project but I am deeply skeptical, mainly because the hype has so far been perfectly balanced to trigger my hmmm? detector on multiple angles. BG3 teasing. Inconsequential (for PC) engine tweaking. Lots of vague promises with almost nothing concrete. At the moment it looks like everything has been done primarily for the purpose of getting it working on iPad despite constant comments about how important the PC is.

 

Basically, I'm not enthusiastic because they've given me no reason to be enthusiastic. That could change if they release more than vague promises but for now I see no reason for excitement, and no reason to buy a game I already own again.

 

Now I don't know how the end product is going to look but working zoom is a pretty big feature for me, for the following reasons:

1. at 1680*1050 the game looks very pretty but the characters, portraits, and text are tiny to the point that its not practical to play that way. The small circular perspective of the characters doesn't look good on a large map covered with the fog of war - because it was not intended to be played like that.

2. at lesser resolutions the game looks like crap stretched all over the screen

So if the characters and environments are sharp on my native resolution (and don't distort) while zoomed in I'm satisfied. I'm assuming maximum zoom in will be limited to 640x480 size except you'll be able to see more of the game world obviously, so blocky pixels won't be an issue. Especially if they do improve the rendering as promised.

As for zoom out, I assume it will be limited to the native resolution or something, although it obviously doesn't have to be.

[Delfosse]

More advertising mindlessly repeated for your enjoyment: http://www.neogamr.n...nhanced-edition !

 

The only concrete thing he says is that they're gonna "fix what is broken and that would be multiplayer". What's wrong with it? The only thing I always thought was lacking in BG's multiplayer was to host and play arenas.

[Monte Carlo]

I'd really like that. A 4th ed version of Baldur's Gate would be awesome

 

Please don't say that again. Not even in jest. It's not funny.

[Nepenthe]

I haven't tried it in a while, but I assume that the problem is that it's, you know, broken, as in not working. Certainly doesn't work on OS X/ipad.

[Monte Carlo]

I wonder if the enhanced edition can be modded?

[Drowsy Emperor]

Most likely. Updating and clearing up the code should make the game even easier to mod, no?

[Zoraptor]

Now I don't know how the end product is going to look but working zoom is a pretty big feature for me, for the following reasons:

1. at 1680*1050 the game looks very pretty but the characters, portraits, and text are tiny to the point that its not practical to play that way. The small circular perspective of the characters doesn't look good on a large map covered with the fog of war - because it was not intended to be played like that.

2. at lesser resolutions the game looks like crap stretched all over the screen

So if the characters and environments are sharp on my native resolution (and don't distort) while zoomed in I'm satisfied. I'm assuming maximum zoom in will be limited to 640x480 size except you'll be able to see more of the game world obviously, so blocky pixels won't be an issue. Especially if they do improve the rendering as promised.

As for zoom out, I assume it will be limited to the native resolution or something, although it obviously doesn't have to be.

I'd certainly hope they're going to address the UI, but I would presume that the UI will not scale with zoom. If it does then it would be exactly the same for all practical purposes as changing the screen resolution.

 

None of that really changes anything though. In a 3d game you would often have quite a lot of redundant detail that can be enhanced by changing the POV/ zoom, if there's a potential 1 million triangles to be displayed yet only 100k are showing you can theoretically get 10x more detail by zooming and you have proper, er, scope for proper zoom for things like rifle scopes. The same cannot be said for a 2d game as a bitmap is by definition a 1:1 representation where 1 picture element displays best as 1 screen pixel. If you zoom into a bitmap you are not actually adding detail, if you try and turn a 1 MP picture into a 4 MP one you end up with two possibilities, a blocky 4 MP picture or a fuzzy 4 MP picture, you don't end up with a 4 MP picture with lots of extra information. In the absence of the original max builds of the levels (so no upping the pixel count via re-rendering from source) it's a pretty fundamental limitation.

[Tigranes]

I don't know if any actual details on zoom are available, or its just the conjecture based on the ~3 photos that were released a while ago. If the latter, it seems that you can pretty much play a higher resolution with higher resolution UI, but 'zoomed in' so sprites and the world is still large, without the pixelation. I'm not sure how that last part works, since that would imply every single art asset in the game was redrawn with extra pixels, no? If the pixelation remains the same, then the only thing zoom achieves would be that you can change screen resolution without exiting the game.

 

Anyway, I don't think stuff is too small when I play superbig resolutions, I enjoy seeing such a large part of the map, but I can see how some people will like it.

[Sargallath Abraxium]

BG is dead. And, what 6 original members at most? Big deal. Is BIo and Interplay getting money out of this? If not, why should I support it? Espicially since BG1 was overrated ... inclduing by me,

 

It';s a minor update. It's a minor trash update to a game past its prime. Nothing they've announced makes this a worthy purchase with my money. Maybe they'll announce something that'll change my mind.. maybe not.

 

 

...canna believe I's gotta agree wit' the dwarf on this'n ('cept that BG wasna overrated; SoA & ToB was, greatly)...a Planescape: Torment redux, now that'd 'ave me attention...

 

 

...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

[Drowsy Emperor]

Trent Oster ? @TrentOster

We are looking at the #bgee pathfinding. We have a few theories on the problems. Mainly looks like lack of fidelity on search maps.

 

Edited April 11, 2012 by Drowsy Emperor

[Junai]

BG is dead. And, what 6 original members at most? Big deal. Is BIo and Interplay getting money out of this? If not, why should I support it? Espicially since BG1 was overrated ... inclduing by me,

 

It';s a minor update. It's a minor trash update to a game past its prime. Nothing they've announced makes this a worthy purchase with my money. Maybe they'll announce something that'll change my mind.. maybe not.

 

 

...canna believe I's gotta agree wit' the dwarf on this'n ('cept that BG wasna overrated; SoA & ToB was, greatly)...a Planescape: Torment redux, now that'd 'ave me attention...

 

 

...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

 

BG lives forever, like chess and Mozart..

 

I *do* want to see a demo of the EE before I purchase it though.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Junai

[Monte Carlo]

I'm really interested but the ability to mod it is a bit of a deal-breaker for me.

[Nepenthe]

This game'll still cost less than you spend on games you'll never play on any given day of a steam sale.

[Spider]

I'm really interested but the ability to mod it is a bit of a deal-breaker for me.

 

They did say they wanted exisiting mods to work with it though, so hopefully that won't be an issue (of course they won't work on the ipad anyway most likely, but that's another issue entirely)

[Jaesun]

Trent Oster ? @TrentOster

We are looking at the #bgee pathfinding. We have a few theories on the problems. Mainly looks like lack of fidelity on search maps.

 

 

THAT alone would be worth the price of this new version.

[Aedelric]

I already own two copies of the original, it would have to be a marked improvement over the original for me to buy another. Currently I have not seen anything that makes me want to part with my money, but I am willing to wait and see as I do love those games.

[Delfosse]

so sprites and the world is still large, without the pixelation. I'm not sure how that last part works, since that would imply every single art asset in the game was redrawn with extra pixels, no?

 

No, it's done through an extrapolation algorithm. Trent what's-his-name mentioned that they're "researching the best upscaling algorithm" (what's there to research? get the best one, see if it works smoothly in your beloved iphones, end of story), which doesn't add more resolution to the image, it just removes the pixelation. Like that: http://en.wikipedia....i/Image_scaling

 

If the image above shows, you can see the difference. The one on the left is just a zoomed version, it's therefore pixelated. The one on the right is enlarged with an extrapolation algorith, hence no pixelation, but there isn't much detail to this object (it became dull), as you can see.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Delfosse

[Tigranes]

Ah, they're upscaling. Should have thought of that, really. Much appreciated.

 

Was the BG pathfinding that bad? I thought the NWNs and other games were worse. But can't hurt to improve it, it did have its quirks.

[Delfosse]

Was the BG pathfinding that bad?

 

Not at all. The pathfinding algorithm in 2d is extremely simple, it's called backtracking. It's something you learn in your first weeks of programming courses, it's that simple.

 

The only thing that BG's algorithm didn't manage at all was when the path was blocked by another character. The algorithm considered that path blocked, end of story. However, if the path was blocked by a friendly character that was also moving, the algo shouldn't have dismissed that path. That particular issue caused problems with moving multiple characters through a narrow passage: some of them would think that there's no way of moving through it and would take a longer route, which most people usually solved by right-clicking on the ground multiple times, remember?

 

This particular problem can be solved with a few lines of code. From what I've read so far, Trent is just trying to make it sound and look like they're actually working, so he can ask for money later.

[Nepenthe]

Ah, they're upscaling. Should have thought of that, really. Much appreciated.

The zoom should, of course, allow you to view it at original scale as well.