Mass Effect 3

[Orogun01]

While I do personally enjoy making some fun of BioWare from time to time, I find the false perception of EA forcing Bio to do dis and dat also very amusing.

 

The BioDocs, or at least Ray Muzyka, seems to have a very firm grip on the senior executive board. He's not gonna screw his own company. Besides, I believe if John Riccitello ever resigns as CEO from EA, Ray would be the perfect candiate to replace him. I just have that hunch.

 

At this point, Bio can only grow bigger and stronger. But not necessarily better.

This

 

Although I believe that Greg and Ray have taken up to more of a managerial position, overseeing various projects but not taking part on them.

[Nepenthe]

AFAIK, Ray runs the whole shebang, while Greg is in charge of SWTOR. Aaryn Flynn is in charge of the Edmonton studio (he's been in Bioware since BG2). I suspect they all still have fairly significant creative control, even if it's on a higher level than the project/"creative" directors.

 

I'm not sure if I want to spring for the Collector's Edition or not. I'm guessing any sort of "bonus" content in the CE will eventually be made available for the regular folk, via DLC, right?

Nope. But the exclusive bit will be weapons and armor of some kind, and in ME2 they were both virtually useless. Past performance also suggests that whatever is preorder exclusive at gamestop won't be available down the line (nor the Origin exclusive item, I'd wager), but everything else will be. Any actual content in the CE will be also available as Day1 DLC (like with DA2).

Edited January 6, 2012 by Nepenthe

[Majek]

I'm not sure if I want to spring for the Collector's Edition or not. I'm guessing any sort of "bonus" content in the CE will eventually be made available for the regular folk, via DLC, right?

Probably. Just like digital edition keys will be sold cheap just after release date. Just ask Morgoth. :D

[GhostofAnakin]

Nope. But the exclusive bit will be weapons and armor of some kind, and in ME2 they were both virtually useless. Past performance also suggests that whatever is preorder exclusive at gamestop won't be available down the line (nor the Origin exclusive item, I'd wager), but everything else will be. Any actual content in the CE will be also available as Day1 DLC (like with DA2).

 

I'm not bothered by weapons and armor. My main concern would be missing out on any NPC party members or sidequests that are only available in the CE. If that's not the case, then I won't buy the CE.

[Nepenthe]

Nope. But the exclusive bit will be weapons and armor of some kind, and in ME2 they were both virtually useless. Past performance also suggests that whatever is preorder exclusive at gamestop won't be available down the line (nor the Origin exclusive item, I'd wager), but everything else will be. Any actual content in the CE will be also available as Day1 DLC (like with DA2).

 

I'm not bothered by weapons and armor. My main concern would be missing out on any NPC party members or sidequests that are only available in the CE. If that's not the case, then I won't buy the CE.

Never been done before, and the "bonus mission and character" mentioned in the CE blurb lacks the magic word "exclusive". Would be out of character for them anyway, can make more money this way.

[Chippy]

I recently read that long-term bioware employees have been resigning after the direction games like ME2 and DA2 have gone in. I'm just speculating, but that's normally a sign that people don't have the luxury of being released into their roles/are being told to perform their job a certain way. So that's why I'm a bit sceptical when people talk about different teams doing different jobs.

 

I suppose Bioware could be growing and newer people are making decisions that a smaller team wouldn't have made years ago - like constantly exploding enemies - but if a series like DA does not develop but replaces what it has built with it's first game (and in my oppinion for the worst) then I won't be pre-ordering MA3 or any other Bioware title again.

[entrerix]

so now you get me3 gear if you play the kingdoms of amalur demo?

 

thats cool i guess, free stuff for playing a free demo = great advertising, hurts no one.

[Volourn]

"I recently read that long-term bioware employees have been resigning after the direction games like ME2 and DA2 have gone in."

 

Like who?

 

 

"I'm just speculating"

 

I see.

 

'Nough said.

[Nepenthe]

"I recently read that long-term bioware employees have been resigning after the direction games like ME2 and DA2 have gone in."

 

Like who?

 

 

"I'm just speculating"

 

I see.

 

'Nough said.

I remember one guy who was widely quoted before da2 came out. I think he went to work at some online gambling site, unless I'm mistaken.

[Hurlshort]

I recently read that long-term bioware employees have been resigning after the direction games like ME2 and DA2 have gone in.

 

The problem I see here is that the direction ME2 went was fantastic and improved on the original in many positive ways.

 

I can see folks getting pissed about the direction DA2 went. I disliked it tremendously. But we should also remember DA1 had a problematic development cycle and it was no surprise that they would need to streamline that for future games. It doesn't forgive some terrible decisions they made, but changes were necessary nonetheless.

[Hassat Hunter]

Depends on who you ask.

 

Planet scanning/Hammerhead where worse than MAKO.

No story (ME2) definitely doesn't beat having a story (ME1).

Also lack of RPG elements, inventory still doesn't like that.

 

I suppose it worked great as cover shooter, but I don't really like cover shooters. I'm more an RPG-person...

[Orogun01]

The problem I see here is that the direction ME2 went was fantastic and improved on the original in many positive ways.

 

I can see folks getting pissed about the direction DA2 went. I disliked it tremendously. But we should also remember DA1 had a problematic development cycle and it was no surprise that they would need to streamline that for future games. It doesn't forgive some terrible decisions they made, but changes were necessary nonetheless.

So you think that a large development cycle justifies the massive change of direction instead of just streamlining DA1?

[Volourn]

DA2 is just as good as DA1.

 

 

As for turnover, all I see is 'specualtion' and not fact. Either way, turnover always occurs. Not one company doesn't see turnover.

 

 

"I remember one guy"

 

l0lz

[Drowsy Emperor]

DA2 is just as good as DA1.

 

I agree, they both equally suck.

[WorstUsernameEver]

"That one guy" that left Bio was the lead on Dragon Age: Origins, had some very detailed thoughts on why he left and also what he thought of Dragon Age 2 based on the demo. Some people interpreted it as more damning to BioWare than I think it was ever intended, but it nevertheless painted the picture of someone leaving BioWare because the company was going in a direction he didn't like (and in many ways, Dragon Age: Origins was the last of a dying breed as far as their games go).

[Nepenthe]

"That one guy" that left Bio was the lead on Dragon Age: Origins, had some very detailed thoughts on why he left and also what he thought of Dragon Age 2 based on the demo. Some people interpreted it as more damning to BioWare than I think it was ever intended, but it nevertheless painted the picture of someone leaving BioWare because the company was going in a direction he didn't like (and in many ways, Dragon Age: Origins was the last of a dying breed as far as their games go).

I agree, but I also think that his next choice of employment cast enough light on his comments in general to make them rather suspect. There's still an impressive amount of people who worked on BG1 still in the company who've not seen fit to move on after ~15 years there...

 

Hell, if you were similarly inclined you could twist this to similar, rather nasty results.

 

Edit: after a quick look at Mobygames, it looks like 2-3 of the the 7-8 guys who were still there from the Shattered Steel team did leave after Origins. Leaving the two docs, James Ohlen and John Winski, afaict.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Nepenthe

[HoonDing]

"That one guy" that left Bio was the lead on Dragon Age: Origins, had some very detailed thoughts on why he left and also what he thought of Dragon Age 2 based on the demo. Some people interpreted it as more damning to BioWare than I think it was ever intended, but it nevertheless painted the picture of someone leaving BioWare because the company was going in a direction he didn't like (and in many ways, Dragon Age: Origins was the last of a dying breed as far as their games go).

I agree, but I also think that his next choice of employment cast enough light on his comments in general to make them rather suspect. There's still an impressive amount of people who worked on BG1 still in the company who've not seen fit to move on after ~15 years there...

 

Hell, if you were similarly inclined you could twist this to similar, rather nasty results.

Lame attempt. You should've linked to Brian Mistoda leaving during Alpha Protocol development (though that still wouldn't be up to par with a lead designer leaving in the middle of development of a major title).

[Volourn]

One guy in a company of hundreds is not enough -espicially when the big wigs who make the major final decisions are still there in power.

 

The big talk was a multitude of long time developers leaving not just one guy. Come talk to me when the docs leave BIO. That would be a big deal.

 

Again, turnover hasppens allt he time. Obsidian has seen turnover too but as long as the owners who make the final decisions - ie FU, Avellone et al. - are still at Obsidian and in control, no big deal.

[Drowsy Emperor]

People don't have the luxury of quitting just because Bioware is no longer dedicated to making real RPG games. Some of them probably don't even care and others might even like the new direction.

 

It doesn't really matter that much anyway, their prime was done by ToB and no one is expecting them to resurrect as a niche game developer when "100+ million dollar franchises" are the order of the day.

 

Like Bethesda, you know what you're getting 95% of the time prior to buying the game. So buy it, or don't.

 

The only 2 things I'm interested in is knowing:

 

a) what will be their next franchise (in a new RPG)

b) will they break away from copy/pasting the basic KOTOR scheme (you're a good/evil - jedi/grey warden/spectre that has to destroy ancient evil yadayadayada) that every game is based on

 

Although I won't hold my breath expecting much of the former or hoping for the latter.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Drowsy Emperor

[Malcador]

Hm, not sure that his next job makes his comments after leaving suspect, who knows why he chose the work after all, also not sure it's indicative of Bioware being the next Origin/Bullfrog/Westwood, heh.

 

Looking forward to playing this, forgot the release is relatively close too - but might coin toss it on just getting the story off LPs.

[HoonDing]

b) will they break away from copy/pasting the basic KOTOR scheme (you're a good/evil - jedi/grey warden/spectre that has to destroy ancient evil yadayadayada) that every game is based on

They tried with DA2, although it seems that it's going back to what you posted considering the content of one of the DLCs.

[Drowsy Emperor]

b) will they break away from copy/pasting the basic KOTOR scheme (you're a good/evil - jedi/grey warden/spectre that has to destroy ancient evil yadayadayada) that every game is based on

They tried with DA2, although it seems that it's going back to what you posted considering the content of one of the DLCs.

 

The basic plot outline is not the entirety of the "scheme": there are characters, dialogue, dramatic twists, relationships, quests etc. etc. that recur more or less in every game with slight or even no changes. I'm tired of the whole package. None of it feels fresh or new - more like well trodden ground whose only plus at this point is that it can be traversed on autopilot. And that's not much of an endorsement.

 

Its amusing to hear complaints from my friends after playing ME2 or DA2 in the vein: "all their games are the same! they're just repackaging xyz!" when I've been telling them that very thing for the last 5 years.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Drowsy Emperor

[Volourn]

Drowsy, it be easier on you if you just posted the following on every page of a BIO trhead: "BIo sucks now!" People say I'm repetitive, but you are probably the most repettive guy on the baord except for maybe one other poster.

 

And, before youc ry about me being a BIO fnaboy, I should let you know this fanboy is such a fnaboy he rushed out and preorder and have been playing KOTOR MMO nonstop since release... oh yeah, no I haven't... my bad.

 

The BIO games of today are, by and alrge, vastly superior to their earlier games. BG1 is a friggin' joke. SS2, and MDK2 are patehtic. BG2 is awesome and is the only old game that is stilkl good but even then is misisng out on awesome stuff. KOTOR is as overrated as BG1.

 

DA2 > BG1 No contest.

 

Better characters, better writing, better story, better graphics, better music, better combat, better character system, plainly better anything.

[Hurlshort]

The problem I see here is that the direction ME2 went was fantastic and improved on the original in many positive ways.

 

I can see folks getting pissed about the direction DA2 went. I disliked it tremendously. But we should also remember DA1 had a problematic development cycle and it was no surprise that they would need to streamline that for future games. It doesn't forgive some terrible decisions they made, but changes were necessary nonetheless.

So you think that a large development cycle justifies the massive change of direction instead of just streamlining DA1?

 

What part of "It doesn't forgive some terrible decisions" do you not understand?

 

I wasn't in on the design meetings, so I can't understand how they ended up where they did. All I'm saying is that it was not surprising that there was a big change from DA1 to DA2. Unfortunately many of us feel that was a change for the worst.

[Drowsy Emperor]

DA2 > BG1 No contest.

 

Better characters, better writing, better story, better graphics, better music, better combat, better character system, plainly better anything.

 

Are you really comparing the latest game of a developer to their decade old first try at RPG's?

 

If the game wasn't better than BG1 that would be grounds for hara-kiri.

 

For the sake of other forum members I won't bring BGII, ToB and the series as a whole into this discussion and see how their late offerings compare to it. That would be really pointless as everyone's position on the issue is well known.

 

I hold that the only thing Bioware has released that's really fresh and original (up to a point) since the BG series are the Mass Effect games. Other games, like Jade Empire and Dragon Age are too flawed or derivative to consider.

 

KOTOR sucks. It sucked then, it sucks now. But its SW so no one cares and they play it anyway.