Nonek Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Oh, well that's rather a waste of twenty hours, seems a wee bit rum but thank you anyway Nepenthe much appreciated. Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin. Tea for the teapot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raithe Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Oh, well that's rather a waste of twenty hours, seems a wee bit rum but thank you anyway Nepenthe much appreciated. Actually, I can see the reasoning behind it. The Mass Effect trilogy is the story of Shephard and how he deals with it all. If he's dead, he's dead. That's it. Story was over when you chose to play the game in a way in which he dies. That's the consequences.... "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonek Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) Rather a brave decision on the makers part, to dissuade certain players from partaking of the third game. Thinking about it I actually approve, still shame i'll not get to finish the trilogy, but these things are sent to try us. At least i'll avoid Chobot's nasal whining, silver lining and that. Edited February 4, 2012 by Nonek Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin. Tea for the teapot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepenthe Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Rather a brave decision on the makers part, to dissuade certain players from partaking of the third game. Thinking about it I actually approve, still shame i'll not get to finish the trilogy, but these things are sent to try us. At least i'll avoid Chobot's nasal whining, silver lining and that. ... Considering the amount of effort you had to put into getting Shepard killed, I'd think you'd be overjoyed with the result. You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Rather a brave decision on the makers part, to dissuade certain players from partaking of the third game. Thinking about it I actually approve, still shame i'll not get to finish the trilogy, but these things are sent to try us. At least i'll avoid Chobot's nasal whining, silver lining and that. ... Considering the amount of effort you had to put into getting Shepard killed, I'd think you'd be overjoyed with the result. Doesn't seem a lot of effort involved, considering you could only get Shepard killing by avoiding all loyalty missions and avoiding all upgrades (hence avoiding wasting time with planet scanning). The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Rather a brave decision on the makers part, to dissuade certain players from partaking of the third game. Thinking about it I actually approve, still shame i'll not get to finish the trilogy, but these things are sent to try us. At least i'll avoid Chobot's nasal whining, silver lining and that. ... Considering the amount of effort you had to put into getting Shepard killed, I'd think you'd be overjoyed with the result. Doesn't seem a lot of effort involved, considering you could only get Shepard killing by avoiding all loyalty missions and avoiding all upgrades (hence avoiding wasting time with planet scanning). That reminds me of the students who avoid all homework and studying and then are surprised when they fail. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonek Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Yes, I just made a point to prioritise the mission and its urgency over crewmate loyalty and resource gathering. I'd stop to do a few side missions if in system but totally avoid any therapy sessions with the menagerie, I trawled every inch of the first game so I thought i'd try something different for the second (and luckily enough I started off with a fair wad of resources from the level 60 import.) Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin. Tea for the teapot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 It's quite a stretch, thinking saving the universe would take priority over solving daddy issues. Well, in a BioWare game at least. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raithe Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Ah, but if saving the universe requires trusting your team, then solving the teams problems before you go.. actually means having a better chance of saving the universe.. 1 "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I never did figure out how exactly Tali trusting me meant she'd not get a rocket to the face. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orogun01 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Because of friendship and rainbows? I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I never did figure out how exactly Tali trusting me meant she'd not get a rocket to the face. With the unresolved trial waiting for her back at home, she decides that it's better to go out in the line of duty to ensure decent life insurance benefits for her family? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oblarg Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Rationalize away, hurlshot, but the fact is the "loyalty" mechanic in ME2 is poorly thought-out and feels like a phony excuse to tie together a game which ultimately has you spending an inordinate amount of time doing things that have nothing to do with the central plot. Plot-wise, ME2 is a trainwreck. There's no way around it. The individual character quests are interesting and well-done, but they're not tied together in any convincing manner and the primary plot has so many gaping, unexplained holes that it's near non-existant. "The universe is a yawning chasm, filled with emptiness and the puerile meanderings of sentience..." - Ulyaoth "It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built." - Kreia "I thought this forum was for Speculation & Discussion, not Speculation & Calling People Trolls." - lord of flies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tale Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 ME3 will doubtfully be any better. I think I'm getting sold on it by what I hear new about the mechanics, though. I'm coming around. Multiple evolutions of powers and enemies with various roles sounds like it could be fun. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepenthe Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) Doesn't seem a lot of effort involved, considering you could only get Shepard killing by avoiding all loyalty missions and avoiding all upgrades (hence avoiding wasting time with planet scanning). Yeah, except you can't avoid doing loyalty missions due to the way the game is paced, you don't unlock the endgame until after you've done several of them. Oh hey, here we are back at the "multitude of plotholes" that never get specified, too. I'll address my favourite one of them, the "it doesn't make sense for a cerberus ship to be marked as one!!!11one" with the next attached picture Edited February 5, 2012 by Nepenthe You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoraptor Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Rationalize away, hurlshot, but the fact is the "loyalty" mechanic in ME2 is poorly thought-out and feels like a phony excuse to tie together a game which ultimately has you spending an inordinate amount of time doing things that have nothing to do with the central plot. I have to disagree at least partly and that's despite also finding the overreliance on character related side plots irritating. The loyalty mechanic worked fine, some of them certainly could have been better handled in terms of how the loyalty or lack thereof paid off but most had a reasonable reason for the increased performance. Plot-wise, ME2 is a trainwreck. There's no way around it. The individual character quests are interesting and well-done, but they're not tied together in any convincing manner and the primary plot has so many gaping, unexplained holes that it's near non-existant. Have to agree with Nepenthe, there aren't really gaping plot holes in ME2. The oversupply of loyalty missions results in a rather poorly integrated (or perhaps poorly paced might be better) and rather underdeveloped plot, but it makes reasonably coherent internal sense despite that. The only plot holes are introduced in the context of it being part of a series and your likely antipathy to Cerberus from ME1. Even then I'm willing to cut it some slack with the proviso that they should really have found a better way, given that I don't get upset at Kreia being a forced companion in K2 when you can find out almost immediately that she's a sith. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oner Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 It's called a loyalty system, but the point of solving those issues was the crew didn' have regrets and second thoughts, so they could concenrate on the mission. Giveaway list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DgyQFpOJvyNASt8A12ipyV_iwpLXg_yltGG5mffvSwo/edit?usp=sharing What is glass but tortured sand?Never forget! '12.01.13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oblarg Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Well, Kreia *isn't* a sith, though. She *was* a sith. She is neither sith nor jedi by the time she joins your party. There are several gigantic plot holes in ME2, but I'm too tired to list them now. Perhaps I'll compile a list later. "The universe is a yawning chasm, filled with emptiness and the puerile meanderings of sentience..." - Ulyaoth "It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built." - Kreia "I thought this forum was for Speculation & Discussion, not Speculation & Calling People Trolls." - lord of flies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majek Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 ME was never anything more than b movie sci fi quality anyway. 1.13 killed off Ja2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepenthe Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Well, Kreia *isn't* a sith, though. She *was* a sith. She is neither sith nor jedi by the time she joins your party. There are several gigantic plot holes in ME2, but I'm too tired to list them now. Perhaps I'll compile a list later. Dude, you've been too tired to list them since the game came out, in spite of repeatedly referring to them. I think you should have your blood sugar levels checked. I've seen lists of "plot holes" in the game, they've been 60% "bwaa, the game didn't hold my hand and I can't connect the two dots myself", 35 % "I hate Bioware for ruining my childhood, so I will look at this game in bad faith and attempt to twist the plot into a point where it makes no sense" (I suspect Boo's different avatars are behind these) and 5 % something that I'm actually willing to accept as an actual plot hole. You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorth Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 they've been 60% "bwaa, the game didn't hold my hand and I can't connect the two dots myself", If they say that about ME2, no wonder I no longer feel like the target audience of the franchise Back to getting my butt kicked and dying unfairly and inexplicably in UFO Enemy Unknown. “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raithe Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 There were seeming examples of Character stupidity, but that can't really be classed as plot holes. Case in point, the Council sticking their fingers in their ears and basically going "bwah-bwah-bwah, you might have saved our lives but we don't want to believe the horrible things going on". However, that can be backed up by history and how people react in general... so. Not so much plothole. I think a chunk of the background plot did tend to get overshadowed by all of the family issues you had to keep solving to get your crew focused, but apart from how quick Shephard was to forgive Cerberus, or how folks like Ashley refused to even listen to reasons of why you were doing stuff - oh, and that Human-Reaper which was just.. kind of silly - I wouldn't have said there were hordes of glaring plot holes. More just, plot annoyances. ME has always been that space opera format. And that allows a certain element of silliness to be enjoyed as part and parcel of the genre. It isn't dark, gritty, hard sci-fi that is meant to be taken completely seriously. Just watch Mordin's take on Gillbert & Sullivan to get that.. 1 "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Yeah, except you can't avoid doing loyalty missions due to the way the game is paced, you don't unlock the endgame until after you've done several of them. Recruitment missions != loyalty missions. Loyalty missions are all optional, in fact you can jump into the Omega Relay right after the derelict Reaper. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonek Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Only plot hole that I could see was why Shep would calmly accept Cerberus's aid in the first place, with admiral Kahoku's widow and children still very much in mind, and that became all the more galling when meeting Alenko. On the whole I thought it was a rollicking good ride and I think that dying in the suicide mission is a perfectly valid ending to the games. I'd have liked Shep's ressurection to have affected him in at least some way, but that didn't spoil my enjoyment. Didn't trust the menagerie at all, with the exception of Garrus. Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin. Tea for the teapot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepenthe Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) Yeah, except you can't avoid doing loyalty missions due to the way the game is paced, you don't unlock the endgame until after you've done several of them. Recruitment missions != loyalty missions. Loyalty missions are all optional, in fact you can jump into the Omega Relay right after the derelict Reaper. I am quite aware of the mechanics and the differences between the mission types. You can't access the derelict reaper straight after doing all the recruitment missions because the prerequisite Collector Cruiser ambush doesn't trigger until you've done some loyalty missions. Ok, I guess it could be random, but I've actually tried it, and always had to do loyalty missions before endgame was unlocked via that event. Edited February 5, 2012 by Nepenthe You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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