RANDOM VIDEO GAME NEWS THREAD!

[HoonDing]

Considering Bethesda's publishing history (WET, Rogue Warrior, Brink, Hunted, et al.) they might actually be brave/stupid enough to go for Alpha Protocol 2.

[Hurlshort]

"The quality of the game and the critical response is good enough that I can't see how it would affect Obsidian's reputation with fans or other publishers."

 

Obsidian forums do not equal overall views. The critiical repsonse and the qualityn of the game has hurt Obsidian's rep just as AP did. DS3 has had subpar reviews and fan reaction outside these forums. Heck, the Codex forums don't even waste their time spamming their fourms with DS3 threads like they usually do. Why? 'Cause DS3 just doesn't matter. EPIC FAIL. FO3.5 was EPIC SUCCESS.

 

If you look at Metacritic, Dungeon Siege 3 has fairly decent scores. In fact it only has 1 negative score and almost 50 good scores from critics. In comparison, Alpha Protocol has quite a few negative reviews and did very poorly when reviewed on the consoles.

 

DS3 is definitely better received than AP. I'm not talking about user reviews, I'm talking about actual published reviews. But that really doesn't have anything to do with sales.

[Sannom]

That's not how game development contracts usually work. You get advances and as the game sells you pay a pecentage of your profits back to the publisher until you repay back all development costs. At least according to Mr. Sawyer. Most publishers just don't throw free money at devs and tell them to go wild and no worries if the game bombs. If the game bombs it will hurt both companies financially.

Weird, because from what I understood from Sawyer's Formspring answers, Obsidian is paid a certain amount of money for certain milestones that were fixed in the contract that both parties signed. None of the sells profits go back to Obsidian unless the contract included a bonus if the game is particularly successful. And apparently that's how all of Obsidian's projects worked.

 

Alpha Protocol is still owned by Sega so far as I know.

It's a former employee of Obsidian that said that Sega was really talking out of its ass when it said that there would never be an Alpha Protocol 2. Basically, that's not their decision to make, not anymore.

 

If you look at Metacritic, Dungeon Siege 3 has fairly decent scores. In fact it only has 1 negative score and almost 50 good scores from critics. In comparison, Alpha Protocol has quite a few negative reviews and did very poorly when reviewed on the consoles.

Yeah, Dungeon Siege 3 have mixed/middle-ground score for the major part, with a few good ones (8/10, 4/5, 80+/100, the like). No the huge gap that Alpha Protocol, between reviewers that would give it a 2 out of 10 while others would give it a 8, and sometimes even a 9.

 

It's pretty much what was expected here : middle-ground, nothing noteceably bad or good.

Edited July 17, 2011 by Sannom

[pmp10]

The only real thing at stake here for Obsidian is the chance to work with Square Enix again.

But given their history with previous publishers that just may be a big deal.

Lucas arts hired another studio for kotor3, so did Atari for neverwinter.

With Sega being unhappy with AP alienating any more publishers doesn't seem to be a very smart move.

Especially considering Bethesdas publishing history.

 

And I'd say that it may be no longer clear whether Obsidian can build a successful game from the ground-up without a strong IP to aid sales.

 

 

The critiical repsonse and the qualityn of the game has hurt Obsidian's rep just as AP did.

That's a unfair exaggeration.

The metacritic score of DS3 hovers around 70% which is a world of difference from the 60% AP got.

 

DS3 has had subpar reviews and fan reaction outside these forums. Heck, the Codex forums don't even waste their time spamming their fourms with DS3 threads like they usually do. Why? 'Cause DS3 just doesn't matter.

But that may just showcase a lack of IP strength and/or title exposure.

Certainly if DS3 doesn't matter to the codex it may not matter to the target audience.

It is not clear however if the reason for that is game quality or lack of interest in IP.

Edited July 17, 2011 by pmp10

[Labadal]

Some clarification:

 

100k is the NPD number. NPD covers sales in USA. 100k is for all platforms for retail copies. This does not include neither digital sales or amazon sales. One should also remember the game released late in June, wich means it was only tracked for about 10 days. June was a five week tracking month, but this had no effect on DSIII.

 

We don't know European numbers, but it has done approximately 50-60k in the UK. that leaves the rest of Europe and the rest of the world.

 

My guess is that it has sold around 300k worldwide.

 

Japanese sales won't contribute much.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Looks to me DS3 is about as successful as AP. In either case, it's not really clear who the intended audience was, apparently not to the publisher either.

It seems to me that DS3's intented audience, and by extension the gameplay, were very clear. Combat-focused, gamepad-focused, not too much distraction in the shape of dialogues or secondary gameplay, a strong combat system. And the audience were the gamers who liked console ARPGs like the Dark Alliance series or some recent X-Men games.

I don't think DS IP is as strong as either one of those, so not enough to carry a game by itself, and not being a real RPG there's not much interest from RPG players either. On the other hand, if the game only cost $5 million or so, a few hundred thousand sales would probably make a profit, so it may be OK.

[Niten_Ryu]

I'd like some proof that DS sold 'millions'. Yeah, f(v)olorn hope on anything other than roofles on that one.

 

Alpha Protocol is still owned by Sega so far as I know.

 

Don't have numbers from 2002, but I was only of the unfortunate bastards who bought the game right away. Damn I was pissed off how bad it was (this was when games on trails were not as common as nowadays). Back in the day I liked Total Annihilation and expected something else... shame on me

 

Anyway, thankfully internet remembers positions at least. This was when The Sims and it's expansions sold stupidly well and PC gaming was going strong.

Best-selling games for the month of March 2002:

Rank This Month / Rank Last Month / Title / Publisher / Average Price
1 / * / The Sims: Vacation / Electronic Arts / $30
2 / 4 / The Sims / Electronic Arts / $42
3 / 1 / Medal of Honor: Allied Assault / Electronic Arts / $44
4 / * / Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast / LucasArts / $47
5 / 3 / The Sims: Hot Date / Electronic Arts / $28
6 / 2 / Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone / Electronic Arts / $27
7 / 18 / Command & Conquer Renegade / Electronic Arts / $42
8 / * / Dungeon Siege / Microsoft / $49
9 / 5 / RollerCoaster Tycoon / Infogrames / $21
10 / 7 / The Sims: Livin' Large / Electronic Arts / $28
11 / 6 / Zoo Tycoon / Microsoft / $26
12 / * / Starcraft: Battle Chest / Vivendi Universal / $22
13 / * / Heroes of Might and Magic IV / 3DO / $45
14 / 11 / The Sims: House Party / Electronic Arts / $29
15 / 12 / Backyard Basketball / Infogrames / $19
16 / 13 / Diablo II: Lord of Destruction / Vivendi Universal / $29
17 / 10 / NASCAR Racing 2002 Season / Vivendi Universal / $43
18 / 9 / Civilization III / Infogrames / $47
19 / 19 / SimTheme Park / Electronic Arts / $18
20 / 14 / Empire Earth / Vivendi Universal / $47

Best-selling PC games for the month of April 2002:

Rank This Month / Rank Last Month / Title / Publisher / Average Price
1 / 1 / The Sims: Vacation / Electronic Arts / $29
2 / 8 / Dungeon Siege / Microsoft / $42
3 / 2 / The Sims / Electronic Arts / $42
4 / 4 / Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast / LucasArts / $47
5 / 3 / Medal of Honor: Allied Assault / Electronic Arts / $45
6 / 5 / The Sims: Hot Date / Electronic Arts / $28
7 / 6 / Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone / Electronic Arts / $28
8 / 10 / The Sims: Livin' Large / Electronic Arts / $28
9 / 13 / Heroes of Might and Magic IV / 3DO / $43
10 / 9 / RollerCoaster Tycoon / Infogrames / $21
11 / * / The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind / Bethesda / $49
12 / 12 / Starcraft: Battle Chest / Vivendi Universal / $21
13 / 11 / Zoo Tycoon / Microsoft / $27
14 / * / Freedom Force / Electronic Arts and Crave / $39
15 / 16 / Diablo II: Lord of Destruction / Vivendi Universal / $31
16 / 14 / The Sims: House Party / Electronic Arts / $29
17 / * / SimTheme Park / Electronic Arts / $17
18 / * / Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Desert Siege / Ubi Soft / $20
19 / 18 / Civilization III / Infogrames / $47
20 / * / Age of Empires II: The Age of Kings / Microsoft / $30

 

So it sold only bit less then Neverwinter Nights or Jedi Outcast (both million+ unit sellers). Also sold more then Morrowind (that didn't make it to top 20). Argh.. this painful - Dungeon Sige shouldnt' have sold as much as it did

[Slowtrain]

DS1 was the most pointless game I ever played. I can't even say it was bad, just pointless. The damn thing almost completely played itself, even the level ups required no input from me, the game took care of it all.

 

Utterly pointless.

 

This from a sp pov though. Maybe it was great in mp.

[Volourn]

"That's a unfair exaggeration.

The metacritic score of DS3 hovers around 70% which is a world of difference from the 60% AP got."

 

70% is not exactly great. heck, people are claiming that BIO got destroyed in reviews yet DA2 is rated a soc alled 'horrible' (I'd term it lacklustre compared to the usual BIO blowjob) late 70s rating. You get a low 70% you cna't be takens eriously. Not that review scores matter anyways. Only sdales do and DS3 was apparantly unsuccessful.

 

 

 

"I'd like some proof that DS sold 'millions'."

 

Im can't believe people still try to argue the unarguable. The DS series was/is a bonafide million dolalr seller. It came out within the ame time rnage as some HUGE RPGs like NWN and MW along with some stomped also rans like POR2 and IWD2 and did extremely well for itself. DS series is a multi million selling series. This is FACT.

 

If you cna't sell a DS game, you are doing something wrong.

 

"But that may just showcase a lack of IP strength and/or title exposure."

 

See above. The DS Ip was strong and DS3 got some pretty good exposure.

 

 

P.S. This doesn't eman I like the oruiginal DS games as I LOATHED thme and I'm sure I'd rpefer DS3 if I tried it.

[Gorth]

Wasn't the original DS just Progress Quest with a new rendering engine?

 

What the 'fans' of the game loved, seems to be the rather generous multiplayer features it offered (if the feed back in the DSIII section is anything to go by).

[Tigranes]

Yeah, Dungeon Siege 1 from memory sold quite a bit, and allowed GPG to take off. Why it sold that much I'll never know, but it did.

[Lexx]

Didn't we agreed already that metacritic score is bull****?

 

 

What I wonder is why DS1 sold at all. I can't remember anything that was revolutionary or such about that game.

[Hurlshort]

DS1 was revolutionary, the engine was fairly amazing for the time. But I compared it to the movie Independence Day once before, it was a great looking game released at a very good time, but it hasn't held up as an important piece of software or anything.

 

Although I was fairly surprised to see the number of "Dungeon Siege in name only!" posts when DS3 was released

 

DS3 is just Alpha Protocol with swords!

[Lexx]

Ah, that's another point I'd like to blame: Somehow it feels to me as if there wasn't enough advert for DS3. I mean, even the "Dungeon Siege in name only!" people came out only *after* the demo was released, never before, even though it was known in what direction DS3 is going.

[ShadowScythe]

I guess Squeenix was too busy with doing prerendered cinematics for Human Revolution, Hitman and Tomb Raider to bother with DS3.

 

I think they should've made it clear that multiplayer was just local co-op for people who couldn't be in the same room early on in the prerelease hype. It seems like that was the big issue with the game for critics and DS fans and it should've been clarified at least with the critics early on before they started demanding features that were never intended for the game (I guess the same issue of expectations was probably the main reason for Alpha Protocol's critical panning)

[pmp10]

But I compared it to the movie Independence Day once before, it was a great looking game released at a very good time, but it hasn't held up as an important piece of software or anything.

If thats the case why was DS2 successful then?

It took on Battlefield 2 on NPD and I doubt that was just due to DS1 nostalgia.

 

I mean, even the "Dungeon Siege in name only!" people came out only *after* the demo was released, never before, even though it was known in what direction DS3 is going.

Most likely they simply expected the franchise to maintain certain gameplay elements.

It's hardly unreasonable if you have no time to keep up with all the latest gaming news.

 

I think they should've made it clear that multiplayer was just local co-op for people who couldn't be in the same room early on in the prerelease hype.

Do you really believe that dropping features expected as standard would help the game?

Among co-op titles only budget priced games can do without multiplayer.

And if online play was a major feature of DS1&2 then ignoring it would lead to an even greater player backlash.

 

It seems like that was the big issue with the game for critics and DS fans and it should've been clarified at least with the critics early on before they started demanding features that were never intended for the game (I guess the same issue of expectations was probably the main reason for Alpha Protocol's critical panning)

Except AP was an original IP and had few expectations associated with it.

The impressions made before the game came out were build by Obsidian and Sega.

Edited July 18, 2011 by pmp10

[Flouride]

Some clarification:

 

100k is the NPD number. NPD covers sales in USA. 100k is for all platforms for retail copies. This does not include neither digital sales or amazon sales. One should also remember the game released late in June, wich means it was only tracked for about 10 days. June was a five week tracking month, but this had no effect on DSIII.

 

We don't know European numbers, but it has done approximately 50-60k in the UK. that leaves the rest of Europe and the rest of the world.

 

My guess is that it has sold around 300k worldwide.

 

Japanese sales won't contribute much.

 

Aye, that 100k is just for one market out of many and doesn't even cover the digital sales. If DS3 really did 100k units in retail in just the two weeks or so in USA I would say that's pretty good. It's a resurrected franchise, just because it sold millions 10 years ago doesn't mean anything now.

 

Aye, with the UK numbers, Australia and rest of Europe I would imagine the total sales are somewhere around 300k as well. Is that bad? Only Obsidian and Square-Enix knows. We have no knowledge of the budget, other than that the team working on the game was somewhat small. If they hope for 1 million sold copies at Square it still doesn't mean they need to sell 1 million copies to make profit (and they never said how fast they expected to hit that number, plenty of people wait on pretty much every title for the game to go on sale before buying). The game might be commercially succesfull even after 500k sold copies....

 

Japanese sales who knows. I guess it will depend on the localisation and marketing.

[Flouride]

That's not how game development contracts usually work. You get advances and as the game sells you pay a pecentage of your profits back to the publisher until you repay back all development costs. At least according to Mr. Sawyer. Most publishers just don't throw free money at devs and tell them to go wild and no worries if the game bombs. If the game bombs it will hurt both companies financially.

Weird, because from what I understood from Sawyer's Formspring answers, Obsidian is paid a certain amount of money for certain milestones that were fixed in the contract that both parties signed. None of the sells profits go back to Obsidian unless the contract included a bonus if the game is particularly successful. And apparently that's how all of Obsidian's projects worked.

 

 

Ye, I understood it like you Sannom. Don't know where Volourn got his "facts".

[Labadal]

Saw this weeks UK sales(second biggest market in the world). Dungeon Siege III rose from position 35 to 11.

 

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p...mp;postcount=38

 

I'm guessing it has the capacity to do better than Alpha Protocol in sales, but not quite reach 1 mil.

[pmp10]

Saw this weeks UK sales(second biggest market in the world). Dungeon Siege III rose from position 35 to 11.

 

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p...mp;postcount=38

 

I'm guessing it has the capacity to do better than Alpha Protocol in sales, but not quite reach 1 mil.

Previous list has it at 19.

But 8 positions would still be a hell of a climb after release.

Can anybody from UK come up with a theory?

[Labadal]

Saw this weeks UK sales(second biggest market in the world). Dungeon Siege III rose from position 35 to 11.

 

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p...mp;postcount=38

 

I'm guessing it has the capacity to do better than Alpha Protocol in sales, but not quite reach 1 mil.

Previous list has it at 19.

But 8 positions would still be a hell of a climb after release.

Can anybody from UK come up with a theory?

 

My bad, I was comparing different trackers.

 

Charttrack.

Week ending July 9.

Week ending July 16.

 

So it went from 35 to 15.

 

ukie.

Week ending July 9.

Week ending July 16.

 

I don't know why the lists are different, charttrack does the ukie lists too.

[Pidesco]

UKIE gathers all the multiplatform titles together, doesn't it?

[Nepenthe]

Saw this weeks UK sales(second biggest market in the world). Dungeon Siege III rose from position 35 to 11.

 

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p...mp;postcount=38

 

I'm guessing it has the capacity to do better than Alpha Protocol in sales, but not quite reach 1 mil.

Previous list has it at 19.

But 8 positions would still be a hell of a climb after release.

Can anybody from UK come up with a theory?

If it was release week and the week after, UK released on Friday. If not, no idea.

 

(Yes, I admit, I did not buy it. I feel bad about it, ok?)

Edited July 18, 2011 by Nepenthe

[WorstUsernameEver]

(Yes, I admit, I did not buy it. I feel bad about it, ok?)

 

Why should you? (I understand that it was a joke, but still.)

 

Unless you pirated it.

[Hurlshort]

It is not too late to repent, sinner Nepenthe!

 

It really is too early to call it on DS3. It hasn't hit the bargain bin yet or anything, so if it can keep selling at a steady rate for awhile, it should do fine.

 

Looking at that list, it's clear that quality has little to do with sales. I get that Zumba Fitness is for a specific audience, but all those movie license games in the top ten are frighteningly bad.