Commercial success

[XxTaLoNxX]

EA is not 'random PR people'. EA, btw, unlike us, cannot lie.

 

In some places naivety is considered a virtue. Not on the internet, naivety is directly linked to being full of "it" on the internet.

 

Which reminds me of a certain quote...

 

"Better to be silent and appear stupid, then open mouth and remove all doubt. "

[Volourn]

Whcih reminds me of another certain quote: "Heed your own advice."

[greylord]

For a mainstream game from a mainstream publisher SS and a well known developer like Obsidian, and the 3rd game and a hugely popular series that has sold millions.. that is a very low number.

 

DA2 sold over a mil in 1 week, and some were trying to claim it as a 'failure'. Come on, 162k in 1 week is fail. No way to spin doctor . Thankfully, vghcartz is a joke so these numbers mean nothing.

 

Once again, of course, I disagree with your opinion of VGchartz. Then again, you think DA2 was the snitz, and I probably don't agree with that opinion either...we probably disagree on many things.

 

However, though I think you may be the minority on DA2 here, I am almost definately the minority opinion on VGchartz here.

 

Numbers publishers put out...now that's the joke. Most of the times those aren't copies sold at retail, that's how many they sold to retailers that the retailers now have to sell themselves.

 

Price drops that are somewhat permanant are a good indicator...such as Dragon Age now being sold at around $40 USD...and that's even the original $60 PS3 version.

 

Yeah...I'll bring DA2 into the picture as I feel your opinion of that game is pretty flawed as well.

[greylord]

"Shipped != Sold

 

Also most of those units that were "sold" were pre-orders, and of those over 60% were returned to GameStop in that first week. Perhaps you should... visit the DA2 forums on the BioWare Social Network before you further shove-foot-in-mouth. It's obvious now that you don't know what you are talking about. "

 

L0L random number alert! "60%"

 

R00fles!

 

DA2 has sold 2mil+ copies and sold 1mil+ copies in the first week. This is fact. Deal with it.

 

Your ignorance of how this all works is hilarious.

 

Says who? Bioware and EA...

 

Let me guess...you believed this guy as well

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Saeed_al-Sahhaf

 

and feel US troops STILL never got anywhere near Baghdad?

 

PS: Truthfully though, I DO trust BW to release something somewhat accurate, and those numbers as I said WERE SOLD...but were sold to the retailers. How much the retailers sold and retained may be completely different however.

Edited July 2, 2011 by greylord

[XxTaLoNxX]

I am almost definately the minority opinion on VGchartz here.

 

Numbers publishers put out...now that's the joke. Most of the times those aren't copies sold at retail, that's how many they sold to retailers that the retailers now have to sell themselves.

 

In a way you're wrong, but in a good way. See, you perceive the skewed numbers of VGchartz as an interpretation of facts which leads to a summarized opinion. While that is partially correct, you are wrong as well. But I hate the word "wrong" because it is so black and white as a word. Instead of "wrong" it is just a possible misinterpretation of numbers. Which isn't a bad thing.

 

The real issue here is that you are 100% correct that the numbers posted to VGchartz are not actual sales, they are shipments of units. The thing Volourn can't seem to grasp is that units SHIPPED != SOLD units.

 

(!= means "not equal" in programming languages btw)

 

And for the record... DA2 may have sold enough units to not be an economic failure, but as a game, it failed on all fronts where gaming is concerned. Hell it doesn't even have multiplayer... which means it "should have had" an extraordinary single player experience but alas that is not the case... it just plain sucks.

[MonkeyLungs]

Are there people arguing that the sales for DS3 are good? Bec ause they are not. We have discussed some things that could mitigate the lower sales though, namely development efficiency (potentially low cost of project -- this is unkown though) and the creation of Onyx engine as a development assest. These are two factors that could help to make the low sales of DS3 not such a negative.

 

I don't think it is disputable that the game in real numbers though is selling quite bad. Just go and look at any online retailer that has sales rankings and see how well the title is stacking up against the competition. It's really not an argument is it?

[Tigranes]

I think what is at dispute is whether there are any 'real numbers' available. I suspect the numbers will be mildly disappointing for Obsidian/Square, but we will see when we have some 'real numbers'.

 

It was never going to be a multi-million seller - for Obsidian it's a smaller title in terms of budget and scope, and out of all their licensed games this has the weakest franchise of all (completely separate from whether DS1/2 were good or not, it's not a particularly valuable franchise in this respect). It'll be interesting how Obsidian takes this, compared to Alpha Protocol, and whether after the latest round of releases, they re-evaluate their strategy of "taking the Obsidian style story heavy RPGs to a wider PC/console audience". (At least FNV sold about 50 billion...)

[Hurlshort]

You mean it isn't selling like the next Call of Duty!?! What a disaster, the folks at Obsidian need to loot the office of everything valuable and head for the hills! You are all doomed!

[C2B]

I think what is at dispute is whether there are any 'real numbers' available. I suspect the numbers will be mildly disappointing for Obsidian/Square, but we will see when we have some 'real numbers'.

 

It was never going to be a multi-million seller - for Obsidian it's a smaller title in terms of budget and scope, and out of all their licensed games this has the weakest franchise of all (completely separate from whether DS1/2 were good or not, it's not a particularly valuable franchise in this respect). It'll be interesting how Obsidian takes this, compared to Alpha Protocol, and whether after the latest round of releases, they re-evaluate their strategy of "taking the Obsidian style story heavy RPGs to a wider PC/console audience". (At least FNV sold about 50 billion...)

 

If the million + expected sales on that Square Enix executives profile is/was accurate I don't really think its going to be that disappointing. Its still a very managable and actually low goal over three plattforms.

Edited July 2, 2011 by C2B

[XxTaLoNxX]

You mean it isn't selling like the next Call of Duty!?! What a disaster, the folks at Obsidian need to loot the office of everything valuable and head for the hills! You are all doomed!

 

Lol. And see this is kinda a good point. And I think I made a similar point to begin with... "Who was ever the target audience?" That and the game hasn't really been out that long, people need to learn that week 1 sales are not the end all tale of success and failure. SquareEnix and Obsidian obviously had a sales goal, but they aren't full of themselves either.

They knew the target audience was small, and once they permeate that audience the rest of the sales are all secondary audience sales.

 

The game was never meant to be a blockbuster. It was meant to test a new engine, put that info out there to the industry that it's a good engine and capable of a lot without too many bugs, and to get some sales from the game. As far as I can tell it's a success, it's sold well enough in week 1 that by week 10 they should meet their sales goals. Then it becomes a bargain-bin game and they sell some more. Also, WE DON'T HAVE THE REAL NUMBERS. There are digital sales and non-reported physical sales they are preventing us from getting the grand scope.

 

I just wish all the "Chicken Littles" would just shut-up and stop crying out that the sky is falling.

[Flouride]

I think what is at dispute is whether there are any 'real numbers' available. I suspect the numbers will be mildly disappointing for Obsidian/Square, but we will see when we have some 'real numbers'.

 

It was never going to be a multi-million seller - for Obsidian it's a smaller title in terms of budget and scope, and out of all their licensed games this has the weakest franchise of all (completely separate from whether DS1/2 were good or not, it's not a particularly valuable franchise in this respect). It'll be interesting how Obsidian takes this, compared to Alpha Protocol, and whether after the latest round of releases, they re-evaluate their strategy of "taking the Obsidian style story heavy RPGs to a wider PC/console audience". (At least FNV sold about 50 billion...)

 

If the million + expected sales on that Square Enix executives profile is/was accurate I don't really think its going to be that disappointing. Its still a very managable and actually low goal over three plattforms.

 

Sorta depends on how fast they were planning on reaching that million sold games. It's obvious they can't reach that goal in just few weeks, it's going to take months and some sales to reach that goal. I would imagine the Japanese sales will be higher than on your normal western rpg since Square Enix is the publisher which will help them reach that number.

[C2B]

Sorta depends on how fast they were planning on reaching that million sold games. It's obvious they can't reach that goal in just few weeks, it's going to take months and some sales to reach that goal. I would imagine the Japanese sales will be higher than on your normal western rpg since Square Enix is the publisher which will help them reach that number.

 

Considering the statement was pretty general I would guess they have at least 2-3 weeks into the Japanese release so at least 2 months for it to reach that goal.

 

Of course if we suddenly see a huge (general) price drop and no communication from Obsidian/no patches or DLC we pretty much can guess that it didn't sell fast enough. That there are patches coming and the last comment in the blogpost makes hopeful.

Edited July 3, 2011 by C2B

[Volourn]

"It was never going to be a multi-million seller - for Obsidian it's a smaller title in terms of budget and scope, and out of all their licensed games this has the weakest franchise of all (completely separate from whether DS1/2 were good or not, it's not a particularly valuable franchise in this respect)."

 

This is not true. The two earlier DS games sold millions. The DS is a valuable franchise - that's why SS and OBS picked it up. People don't pick up series that aren't valuable. DS3 most certainly was aimed to be a multi million seller.

[Sannom]

The DS is a valuable franchise - that's why SS and OBS picked it up. People don't pick up series that aren't valuable. DS3 most certainly was aimed to be a multi million seller.

DS isn't such a well-known and loved franchise. You don't see people fawning over the gameplay or story, most people are just happy that it enables for an Ultima 5 remake. It's known enough that SE picked it up from Gas Powered Games, but it's not a super-popular franchise. Some documents seen before said that the SE management was expecting one million and more sales, not multi-millions right from the bat.

[Hurlshort]

This is not true. The two earlier DS games sold millions. The DS is a valuable franchise - that's why SS and OBS picked it up. People don't pick up series that aren't valuable. DS3 most certainly was aimed to be a multi million seller.

 

I don't know, it's a pretty different marketplace today compared to when DS1&2 came out. DS1 was nearly 9 years ago. Action-RPG's are not a huge genre. It also wasn't as strong an IP as something like Fallout. It's not like the name helped the movie make any money. Do we even know how much the IP cost to acquire?

[WorstUsernameEver]

Amazon UK is already doing pretty cheap sales with the game.

 

I don't think it's too early to say that Dungeon Siege III is not doing well sales-wise.

 

@Hurlshot: Really? Torchlight did extremely well. Granted, different price and different scope, but considering just how many XBLA/PC Diablo-clones we're seeing lately I'd say the genre is actually doing pretty well. Dungeon Siege III is a different beast since it's full-price and the design is rather different, and I'd say that those two things are damning it. It's not just the flaws, Obsidian seems to have forgotten to consider for what audience they were developing the game.

Edited July 3, 2011 by WorstUsernameEver

[LadyCrimson]

Action-RPG's are not a huge genre.

Blizzard and most MMO's would like to disagree with you. DS3 just isn't the "popular" form of aRPG's as most think of them, since Ob's went for something a bit different. But I do agree that there doesn't seem to be tons of room for a plethora of Diablo's, say, vs. a plethora of 1st person shooters. I often wonder why that is...

 

1st person shooters - you run around shooting at stuff.

aRPG's - you toss fireballs/whack your sword at stuff.

 

eg, what makes shooter fans keep buying all these new shooters, while aRPG fans just say "I'll wait for D3 to come out", when the formula for either doesn't change that much (I know they change a little/try for new things at times, I'm just saying....). I know so many who won't even try a new aRPG because something in the game isn't like Diablo & it irks them.

[pmp10]

It's not just the flaws, Obsidian seems to have forgotten to consider for what audience they were developing the game.

Is decision like that really in Obsidians hands?

Target audience seems to be more of a publisher thing and it seems DS3 was always meant to go consoles-first.

 

eg, what makes shooter fans keep buying all these new shooters, while aRPG fans just say "I'll wait for D3 to come out", when the formula for either doesn't change that much (I know they change a little/try for new things at times, I'm just saying....).

Maybe because shooter fans are more appreciative of newer technology.

Newer graphics/physics and better production values are far more important in that genre witch in turn gives it more mass-appeal.

[LadyCrimson]

Maybe because shooter fans are more appreciative of newer technology.

Newer graphics/physics and better production values are far more important in that genre witch in turn gives it more mass-appeal.

Not a bad point. Some of those same ppl I know couldn't give a flying hoot about new graphics/physics.

 

I guess I was wondering (in terms of sales at least) if the fact most aRPG's were, in the past, aimed at the PC market had something to do with it. They don't seem to port over well to consoles (at least not to the original aRPG fans minds) while shooters went there easily.

 

Target audience seems to be more of a publisher thing and it seems DS3 was always meant to go consoles-first.

That was my impression from the get-go as well.

Edited July 3, 2011 by LadyCrimson

[Hurlshort]

I guess I was wondering (in terms of sales at least) if the fact most aRPG's were, in the past, aimed at the PC market had something to do with it. They don't seem to port over well to consoles (at least not to the original aRPG fans minds) while shooters went there easily.

 

That would make a lot of sense. RTS games have the same issue, they just don't seem to do well on the console, even when they are implemented decently. Halo Wars was reviewed well, based on a blockbuster IP, and it still only managed a million sales. aRPG's seem like they would be easier to make work on the console, but there isn't much history of success there. The big dog Blizzard is strictly PC.

 

The only games I can think of that have done decently in this generation are those Xmen games.

[Bendu]

A drop in price for a game, which has been released two weeks ago, is normal nowadays. Especially for the UK market. I guess Skyrim and Rage failed too, because you can buy the game for 29 Euro in the UK (they are even discounted before release!).

 

Only Square Enix and Obsidian can answer the question, if DS3 has been a commercial success for the publisher. A much better indicator for success will be DLC and patches.

Edited July 3, 2011 by Bendu

[LadyCrimson]

I guess Skyrim and Rage failed too, because you can buy the game for 29 Euro in the UK (they are even discounted before release!).

I need to move to the UK.

 

And I'm definitely hoping for DLC for DS3.

[Volourn]

"DS isn't such a well-known and loved franchise"

 

Simply not true. DS1 and DS2 were huge sellers and were very popular. A lot more successful than either FO1 and FO2 were to be sure but that didn't stop Betehsda from selling millions with FO3.

 

 

 

" It also wasn't as strong an IP as something like Fallout."

 

Kiddin' right?

 

FO1 and FO2 sold elss than a mil each. DS and DS2 sold millions. To try to claim that DS series wasn't popular is just silliness.

 

UIf DS3 fails it is not DS1 and DS2's fault.

[Tigranes]

DS sold more than FO, it just didn't have a lasting fanbase in the same way. That said, FO3's commercial success probably had as much to do with Bethesda picking it up and porting their TES brand of gaming in there.

 

UIf DS3 fails it is not DS1 and DS2's fault.

 

Of course. Who said?

[Flouride]

DS sold more than FO, it just didn't have a lasting fanbase in the same way. That said, FO3's commercial success probably had as much to do with Bethesda picking it up and porting their TES brand of gaming in there.

 

Exactly. Their own fanbase + (most of) Fallout fans is quite a lot of potential sales. And what comes to the sales of original Fallouts, those games came out during the time that piracy was pretty damn huge (at least in Finland) and the games didn't have multiplayer (that sometimes forced pirates to actually buy their games). I knew about 20 people from my school alone who had pirated copies of both of the Fallout games and this was in a small town of 5k people. Sales figures from 10-15 years ago just don't tell the whole truth... (not that it does present day either)