Witcher 2 Again

[Bos_hybrid]

Just finished the game. Good game, was surprised. Still don't like Geralt or Triss, but the support characters were good and the world seemed more interesting. Excellent graphics and the game ran smoothly for me. Combat was fun reminded me of Assassin's Creed. Later down the line will have to see how differently the game plays out with it's C&C.

 

In the end though I would still like to see CD Projekt next game be something other than The Witcher, unfortunately I don't see this happening.

 

What I do find surprising is the complete lack of crying about how this isn't an RPG. What's happening here?

[Tale]

What I do find surprising is the complete lack of crying about how this isn't an RPG. What's happening here?

 

What I tend to find is that most of the time, complaints are a sign of a problem, but not specific to what the problem is. If someone dislikes a game, they generally won't understand why, so they'll reach for the obvious and public culprits. It's not what I think this type of game should be. It's dumbed down. Etc. The plot sucks. When the impacting factors are sometimes more subtle and less recognized.

 

That is to say, when someone likes a game, they forgive the faults. When they dislike a game, they'll complain about any element of it, regardless of whether or not that's why they actually dislike it.

 

This is the role critics are supposed to fill, by my understanding. People who actually know enough to point out these elements and understand how they contribute to the overall enjoyment of a particular game.

[Nepenthe]

What I do find surprising is the complete lack of crying about how this isn't an RPG. What's happening here?

 

What I tend to find is that most of the time, complaints are a sign of a problem, but not specific to what the problem is. If someone dislikes a game, they generally won't understand why, so they'll reach for the obvious and public culprits. It's not what I think this type of game should be. It's dumbed down. Etc. The plot sucks. When the impacting factors are sometimes more subtle and less recognized.

 

That is to say, when someone likes a game, they forgive the faults. When they dislike a game, they'll complain about any element of it, regardless of whether or not that's why they actually dislike it.

 

This is the role critics are supposed to fill, by my understanding. People who actually know enough to point out these elements and understand how they contribute to the overall enjoyment of a particular game.

This, so much this.

 

Sometimes it's not even the game that people dislike, I heard a story from a guy working at Tesco... He said that when people find out that there's been a mistake somewhere, they almost take a kind of a glow to them... Some people live to see successful people and companies fail. It's a sad situation when it happens withing the CRPG community, there aren't enough studios as it is.

[Humanoid]

Yep. I just finished it after a 12 hour session and there's so many things I hate about it. Yet it's still the best game I've played for a long time.

 

Bunch of negatives:

Don't like alchemy.

Don't like the crafting.

Don't like the looting and inventory system.

Character system isn't particularly interesting. Most skill points are passive flat bonuses that don't change gameplay. (Rare exceptions like riposte and area-effect spells)

Mutagens and weapon/armor enhancements are just passive fluff.

Irritated like hell at the finisher animations (being an Aard spamming magic build doesn't help)

Bored by the repetitive nature of all the spells.

Ambivalent about the roll-roll combat in general.

Ravines. Oh god, ravines. Turned lush outdoor environments into tunnels.

 

Yet some things that I thought would be huge negatives we're really so bad. QTEs were easy and predictable - simple enough to know when to expect them unlike ME2 which tended to catch me when I was sitting back watching some cutscene. And boss battles - lots of complaints about them but I'd rather 90% of the inconsequential mooks be removed instead.

 

 

Anyway, more generally - I'd probably go for another playthrough once 1.3 is released - but on easy (normal all the way on the first clear), skipping nontrivial sidequests (Melitele's Heart the worst of them) and ignore loot (including crafting/potions) as much as possible. And I'll still love it.

 

 

EDIT: Early worries about instability didn't turn out to be an issue. After the two CTDs up to the beginning of act 1, I didn't get another ....until the end credits crashed.

Edited June 11, 2011 by Humanoid

[WorstUsernameEver]

Bunch of negatives:

Don't like alchemy.

Don't like the crafting.

Don't like the looting and inventory system.

Character system isn't particularly interesting. Most skill points are passive flat bonuses that don't change gameplay. (Rare exceptions like riposte and area-effect spells)

Mutagens and weapon/armor enhancements are just passive fluff.

Irritated like hell at the finisher animations (being an Aard spamming magic build doesn't help)

Bored by the repetitive nature of all the spells.

Ambivalent about the roll-roll combat in general.

Ravines. Oh god, ravines. Turned lush outdoor environments into tunnels.

 

That leaves you with dialogue and minigames as positives.

[Humanoid]

That's all I ask for in an RPG really.

 

 

The obscured message there is that me tolerating the combat is, in relative terms, a positive. Most other RPGs I count it as an outright negative - set easiest difficulty right from the get go, and if that's still too tedious, cheese/cheat to make it bearable.

[WorstUsernameEver]

That's all I ask for in an RPG really.

 

 

The obscured message there is that me tolerating the combat is, in relative terms, a positive. Most other RPGs I count it as an outright negative - set easiest difficulty right from the get go, and if that's still too tedious, cheese/cheat to make it bearable.

 

I actually think The Witcher 2 has some of the worst RPG combat in the last 5 years, so I can't really agree with you on that.

[Lexx]

Witcher 2 is pretty much an action-adventure only. But as the rpg genere is so damn blurry nowadays, most folks do not notice it anyway.

 

I cannot rage about it anymore, I am all outa rage about this. So I just live with it and don't complain that Witcher 2 isn't enough rpg.

Edited June 11, 2011 by Lexx

[Wombat]

As for the character advancement system, a certain character builds doesn't seem to work at all. About combat, I think I have a mixed feeling. It delivers the feel of metal crashing each other quite well but, as a game-play, once Gelart is surrounded, he is done for in the constant knock-back animations. Due to this, the basic "tactics" is trying to lure one from group, which can get boring. For the game-play's shake, probably, removing magic casting animation (although it represents traditional casting time concept) could be a possible solution if it doesn't totally contradict the setting. In any case, I think CD Projekt Red should find a way for combat game-play and visual effect and/or physics to coexist.

 

Also, the Witcher has reasonable difficulty mode, which makes the players to prepare well in harder difficulty. Now in harder difficulty, Gelart doesn't seem to be a sword master at all since close combat means death for him. In recent patch, they seem to have decreased the difficulty level, though. In any case, I haven't used most of alternatives given to Gelart simply because they don't work out well (Aard is just for removing objects while spamming Quen seems to be the only "tactics" while most of potions/bombs are quite useless). Either it is tactical choice during combat or strategic choice before engaging it, most of the "choices" got useless.

 

That said, I think the Witcher 2 has got more streamlined compared with its predecessor. The shifts from QTE/cutscenes to combat feel natural probably due to the lacked bird view camera and faster pacing, which makes story-conveyed pretty naturally, too. I felt like to be put in a movie while C&C is intact and the world feel more vivid than in the original.

 

Dialogues are mixed creature here, too. I think they are generally good. However, due to many background settings, quite many things need to be told to convince those familiar with other the novels. Also, some of the factors are needed to be kept untold till the last part of the story in order to keep some mysteries remained. These made especially the later dialogues tend to be rather explanatory to be natural conversations from NPCs. The flaw is very obvious but I have no idea on how to address the issue. The designers could have put some content to keep the main story flow naturally than putting some fetch/collect items quest, though. That said, as for the claims that the story feels cut in the middle, I must point out that the story is composed of a few plots and, the story arc of Assassins of Kings is completed. Indeed, some other plots didn't see their conclusions but claiming the story is half done due to it would probably be unfair to the designers since they are not in the title. In fact, I think this part is well done to keep the expectation to possible later works while concluding a story.

 

All in all, the game is definitely has its flaws and I definitely could come up with other flaws than what I wrote here but I think the designers did a good job to make them more or less ignorable by doing a good job in putting the players into their world/story. So, yea, I guess I could say that the sum feels better than its parts like with the original.

[Tigranes]

Man, I like TW2 combat. To me, really crap RPG combat is KOTOR 1&2. It's not great, of course, but... maybe I have low standards.

 

I think most of the problems it has is a balance/tweak issue. i.e. Quen is way too overwpoered, and using Quen a lot makes the combat a lot duller; blocking needs to use less vigor and the counterattack needs to be more effective; the combat really should have integrated more environmental factors to take advantage of its positioning bonuses.

[Wombat]

Oh, I don't hate it, either.

 

I think most of the problems it has is a balance/tweak issue. i.e. Quen is way too overwpoered, and using Quen a lot makes the combat a lot duller; blocking needs to use less vigor and the counterattack needs to be more effective; the combat really should have integrated more environmental factors to take advantage of its positioning bonuses.

Agreed, here, too.

[Orogun01]

Man, I like TW2 combat. To me, really crap RPG combat is KOTOR 1&2. It's not great, of course, but... maybe I have low standards.

 

I think most of the problems it has is a balance/tweak issue. i.e. Quen is way too overwpoered, and using Quen a lot makes the combat a lot duller; blocking needs to use less vigor and the counterattack needs to be more effective; the combat really should have integrated more environmental factors to take advantage of its positioning bonuses.

Disagree here, Quen was the saving grace against clusters of enemies. Specially after they removed the group style; oh yeah and blocking uses less vigor if you spend points on the skill. Counter attack was pretty damn effective on mine since it took about a 3/4 of the enemy's HP.

 

My particular problems were with the progression, aside from a few skills most were useless :cough:knife throwing:cough: and there wasn't really a change in gameplay style throughout the whole game.

[Hassat Hunter]

Think I'm using 1.2, but where's the delete savegame option? Also can't seem to exit the loading screen of the main menu, have to load a game (ingame works fine). And is it just me that texture popup seems to become more likely? Or is it just the cave-area I am in?

And found another sack that wasn't lootable. Should have fixed that too. Or is that only for new games?

 

...so confused.

 

EDIT: Hmmm, should read patch notes better. Delete apparently for the savegames. Nevermind on that. *off to test*

Edited June 11, 2011 by Hassat Hunter

[HoonDing]

My particular problems were with the progression, aside from a few skills most were useless :cough:knife throwing:cough: and there wasn't really a change in gameplay style throughout the whole game.

[Orogun01]

My particular problems were with the progression, aside from a few skills most were useless :cough:knife throwing:cough: and there wasn't really a change in gameplay style throughout the whole game.

Even with bombs the gameplay it's almost always "Quen, and fight" hell I wish there was a statistic that kept track of how many times you've used Quen, then we could compare.

 

But what I meant by it is that aside from a few skills progression isn't really felt in combat. It feels like instead of becoming more powerful, you are just becoming competent.

[Zoraptor]

Knife throwing useless? It's not as useful as bomb spam against most enemies (especially mook mobs like nekkers) but I'd hesitate to call something which came close to winning three boss fights by itself useless.

[Wombat]

Counter attack was pretty damn effective on mine since it took about a 3/4 of the enemy's HP.

I wonder why some people including myself find it useless while some others don't. I may be doing it wrong.

 

Knife throwing useless? It's not as useful as bomb spam against most enemies (especially mook mobs like nekkers) but I'd hesitate to call something which came close to winning three boss fights by itself useless.

Yea, I haven't taken knife-throwing skill simply because I used bombs for ranged but some people from multiple sources find it pretty useful. Also, I used traps time to time, which turned out to be pretty effective. So, yes, I tried to use tactics available quite a lot but, when it comes to magic, I wonder if I used something outside Quen. Indeed, I used Yarden against a boss fight. With the recent patch, Igni seems to get more powerful, though.

 

Also, I hadn't used 0 weight mod till later part in chapter 2 for I tried to follow how it is designed, first but eventually gave up once I found it dragging the game-play experience too much. I could use less of bombs and traps simply because I couldn't carry them but, after the mod, I got able to spam them. So, yes, I guess I cheated on this part. However, how many people played the game without that mod?

[Orogun01]

Knife throwing useless? It's not as useful as bomb spam against most enemies (especially mook mobs like nekkers) but I'd hesitate to call something which came close to winning three boss fights by itself useless.

It was always too slow for me, left me open and not to mention that the game has some targeting issues. BTW, what bosses fights were those? Because I swear that most of the boss fights I remember there wasn't a target symbol.

[Wombat]

Hmmm...gog.com and Gamebanshee have more people than here for various cases but I don't have accounts there and I'd rather wait for the official boards to open.

 

In any case, E3 finished, no new DSIII or other Obsidian game info...there will not be many things going on here now, it seems.

[Hassat Hunter]

I'm half-way Chapter II (Normal difficulty, lvl 20 now) and I have yet to use Quen, Traps, Bombs or Throwing Knives. They just don't seem worth it (well, besides Quen maybe, but I prevent myself from using it to make the game more fun). Maybe I should go to hard to see your guys battles be "slash, roll, roll, slash" because everyone pretty much dies on groups (especially Harpies. Weakest enemies EVER). Having the attack multiple enemies skill on 100% is great for this, no more worrying about groups, just murder them all at once.

Don't even need to use potions anymore either, like the prologue or act I.

 

Got 2 skillpoints left as I exited last night to sleep, probably will unlock adrenaline with them. Which probably explains why it feels easy.

Edited June 12, 2011 by Hassat Hunter

[Tigranes]

You don't really need the target symbol, knife throwing pretty much auto-aims for you. The draug, for instance, can be cheesed entirely if you have about 50 knives (at one time I had nearly as much without realising).

 

To be honest, I think we all individually have (a) stuff we like, (b) stuff we're good at, © stuff we get used to, then extrapolate this onto the game's mechanics as a whole. I can easily see why knife throwing, for instance, is not very satisfactory, or doesn't feel precise, or simply doesn't feel very effective after bombs, but I've certainly seen it be really useful in some cases. Main reason I don't like Quen is because it's way too effective, not because of how it's designed - again it comes back to the fact that with a little bit of nerfing or beefing, every tool in combat would be useful for someone.

[Zoraptor]

It was always too slow for me, left me open and not to mention that the game has some targeting issues. BTW, what bosses fights were those? Because I swear that most of the boss fights I remember there wasn't a target symbol.

 

Letho (first one, particularly good for interrupting him casting Quen), Draug, and Hall and Oates Serrit and Auckes. I could have used them for Letho two but by that level and with the Ginsu I was using it only only took about ten seconds to finish him in a straight fight.

 

[Humanoid]

Never tried either, but that's just the inner miser in me. Knives aren't recoverable after using them are they?

 

 

I also avoided Quen for the most part since it was boring, but found I'm just not good enough to dodge the big but quick foes like the golems - two hits and I'm dead.

[Azure79]

I just finished my second run. If an expansion or sequel comes along, I hope CDR has fun keeping track of all the things that can change.

 

This time,

I sided with Iorveth so I learned that Saskia was actually the dragon, though I suspected as much during my first run. Between saving Philippa and Triss I chose Triss. I figured I had killed all the guards anyways and she would be rescued. I assumed she had a telepathic link with Saskia so help was coming. Also I have a weakness for redheads, a damsel in distress + redhead is irresistable.

 

I'm guessing if I made the opposite decision Triss would be somehow rescued anyways since she seems crucial to the story (kudoes to CDR if they really kill her off), but I don't want her to hold a grudge and backstab me in later games. Sorceresses seemed to do that a lot in this game, in addition to just about everyone else.

 

Left Saskia alive because I suspected Geralt would have an opportunity to free her in later games. I think my hunch is correct because I picked up a shiny dagger called, Philippa Earhart's Dagger in the epilogue and it just screams plot device.

 

 

I like the combat overall though I also think it's a bit clunky. I wish you could move around in the block position (does one of the skills allow this?) and target enemies better. Often I would just go flying into a middle of a group and get murdered. I also want specific key inputs to pull off specific moves and combos. I found it hard to get timing and distance right because I wasn't sure what kind of attack Geralt would do. Sometimes he would stab, other times he would do a spinning move etc.

[Humanoid]

I'd take a third button for the leaping attack as a preferred solution with both other attacks being standing attacks. Adding more commands for specific moves otherwise is a bit too much complexity for my tastes. People with only two-button mice might disagree.

 

That plus a more wieldy target selection + lock system would make my day