Mass Effect 3

[Orogun01]

Frankly, just another bunch of complaints directed at Bioware I don't understand. I'm not going to play as a gay male (in this game or any probably any other), but for that option to be there is definitely no skin off my back.

That would be true back in the day when BW romances weren't so forward with their advances, now they probably confess their feelings to you the moment you see them and you have to beat them with a stick.

 

Shepard:"Hi Kaidan, how's life treating you"

Kaidan: "You had me at hello"

 

 

Is it Bioware are arrogant because they are successful, or they MUST be arrogant because they have been successful? I haven't seen them release anything since DA2, so I'm not sure how yow can already call them out for not learning anything?

Success it's not a measure of quality, just of popularity. They have had a streak of games with poor storytelling, they have been steadily growing apart from their own style and have redefined themselves by just keeping the romances and scraping the rest.

[Nepenthe]

Frankly, just another bunch of complaints directed at Bioware I don't understand. I'm not going to play as a gay male (in this game or any probably any other), but for that option to be there is definitely no skin off my back.

That would be true back in the day when BW romances weren't so forward with their advances, now they probably confess their feelings to you the moment you see them and you have to beat them with a stick.

So Jaheira didn't start on hitting you the second you stepped out from Irenicus's dungeon? This is an even stronger sign to me that I'm playing different games from y'all.

 

Success it's not a measure of quality, just of popularity. They have had a streak of games with poor storytelling, they have been steadily growing apart from their own style and have redefined themselves by just keeping the romances and scraping the rest.

There really is no way I can oppose a well-structured argument like that (*snicker*). It's sad I have to carry the brand of the "bioware defender" just because I can't swallow all the bull**** the critics are pushing.

[HoonDing]

Is Tali a possible F/F option? In ME2 she has the same flirt dialogue options with FemShep as with MaleShep. :talimancer:

Edited May 18, 2011 by virumor

[Malcador]

This is why Anti-social Shep is the best.

[Orogun01]

So Jaheira didn't start on hitting you the second you stepped out from Irenicus's dungeon? This is an even stronger sign to me that I'm playing different games from y'all.

Now you are talking about the glory days, back when BW was BW and interactions weren't streamlined for the casual crowd.

There really is no way I can oppose a well-structured argument like that (*snicker*). It's sad I have to carry the brand of the "bioware defender" just because I can't swallow all the bull**** the critics are pushing.

Your choice, they are just falling into the same trap as everyone else IMO. Making sure that their games appeal to the widest audience possible and trying to tune the experience for maximum yield on the first playthrough. AKA: making idiot-proof games.

[HoonDing]

Actually, Jaheira started hitting on Charname after two to three in-game days... and with most newbies resting numerous times in Irenicus' dungeon, getting out of there after two-three in-game days, this gives a wrong impression.

[Nepenthe]

Actually, Jaheira started hitting on Charname after two to three in-game days... and with most newbies resting numerous times in Irenicus' dungeon, getting out of there after two-three in-game days, this gives a wrong impression.

Oh, ok, hitting on a new guy two days after your husband is dead. Completely different thing.

 

Your choice, they are just falling into the same trap as everyone else IMO. Making sure that their games appeal to the widest audience possible and trying to tune the experience for maximum yield on the first playthrough. AKA: making idiot-proof games.

And that's where you are wrong. Sure, there's a bit of IMO here, but frankly the problems with DA2 had absolutely nothing to do with pandering to the masses or making the games idiot proof. Those parts, like the combat, were the ones that actually worked well. The real issues were in the borderline insane cost-cutting measures (meet the new dungeon, same as the old dungeon), the corridor structure and the severely limited pc camera (which still made the game play better than DAO on consoles). Both of these are either simply bad design, or a desperate attempt to make a good game without the budget required for it. The cognitive dissonance here is that due to their initial bias of "it's now popular, so it must suck" people call the game out for the wrong things, especially when they aren't going into the details. I think there's more than one trap to fall into, here, and a lot of old school rpg elitists have fallen into the pit of not being able to tell where the problems are.

 

Bioware have pulled themselves out of slumps before (abovementioned NWN will be agreed by most, if not Volo), and the extra 3-6 months given to ME3 is certainly a sign that they've realised they need time to deliver the quality product for which they (still for the moment) are known.

[Tale]

Hey, in two to three days, bodies are cold. And often buried in that time.

 

Perfect time for moving on, IMO.

[Malcador]

God damn elitists.

[HoonDing]

I believe Jaheira explains at one point that it was part of their life's philosophy, to move on quickly if someone of the two dies.

[Tale]

She's also a Druid and a Half-Elf. You know how they are. Fickle.

[HoonDing]

Not to mention, her husband was a chump.

 

They specifically gave Jaheira a Remove Fear spell in BG1 that Druids normally don't get, because Khalid was most prone to lose morality and run off. R00fles!

[Nepenthe]

Not to mention, her husband was a chump.

 

They specifically gave Jaheira a Remove Fear spell in BG1 that Druids normally don't get, because Khalid was most prone to lose morality and run off. R00fles!

Better part of valor!

[entrerix]

im glad they are including more lesbian options. i hope they go back and patch it into me 1 and 2 so my femshep can bang ashley and miranda.

 

bam.

bam.

[Tale]

If they include more lesbian options, I demand the ability for Shepard to get a sex change at the beginning of ME3.

[Malcador]

And for a million credits, both of 'em at the same time.

[greylord]

Actually, Jaheira started hitting on Charname after two to three in-game days... and with most newbies resting numerous times in Irenicus' dungeon, getting out of there after two-three in-game days, this gives a wrong impression.

Oh, ok, hitting on a new guy two days after your husband is dead. Completely different thing.

 

Your choice, they are just falling into the same trap as everyone else IMO. Making sure that their games appeal to the widest audience possible and trying to tune the experience for maximum yield on the first playthrough. AKA: making idiot-proof games.

And that's where you are wrong. Sure, there's a bit of IMO here, but frankly the problems with DA2 had absolutely nothing to do with pandering to the masses or making the games idiot proof. Those parts, like the combat, were the ones that actually worked well. The real issues were in the borderline insane cost-cutting measures (meet the new dungeon, same as the old dungeon), the corridor structure and the severely limited pc camera (which still made the game play better than DAO on consoles). Both of these are either simply bad design, or a desperate attempt to make a good game without the budget required for it. The cognitive dissonance here is that due to their initial bias of "it's now popular, so it must suck" people call the game out for the wrong things, especially when they aren't going into the details. I think there's more than one trap to fall into, here, and a lot of old school rpg elitists have fallen into the pit of not being able to tell where the problems are.

 

Bioware have pulled themselves out of slumps before (abovementioned NWN will be agreed by most, if not Volo), and the extra 3-6 months given to ME3 is certainly a sign that they've realised they need time to deliver the quality product for which they (still for the moment) are known.

 

 

I would disagree that NWN was the slumps. In fact it's main draw was an overwhelming success. The idea of NWN was never that it was a new campaign like BG, it was that it was a game where you could design your own dungeons, host your own games, and be like the prior NWN where you designed your own games of D&D. In that aspect it was a success like no other game has ever been before or after.

 

Since BG the closest I'd say they've been to developing a slump would perhaps be MDK, or more recently, Sonic...which ironically catered also to the console (hand helds being corralled into that console realm, I know...they are different)...but even those didn't have the mistakes they made (as you so aptly pointed out, I'd also point out the gay conversations continuing even when someone already stated they didn't swing that way...as well as the massive amount of junk that littered the areas for no apparant reason and the reasonings behind such junk in game, and more so, the three act city which they have done well in the past with other games involving cities, but in this one had it so limited as you would get bored with the actual city areas due to constant reuse and small numbers of places to explore in them that by act 2 you were bored of the city...even if you still liked the story) in DA2. DA2 overall was just not up to their standards of what had come previously.

 

It holds well with other smaller game companies that put out less expensive games...but if BW is going to that standard instead...then I'll wait for reviews and be skeptical of whether the game is worth buying or not, just like I do with those lesser companies.

[Orogun01]

And that's where you are wrong. Sure, there's a bit of IMO here, but frankly the problems with DA2 had absolutely nothing to do with pandering to the masses or making the games idiot proof. Those parts, like the combat, were the ones that actually worked well. The real issues were in the borderline insane cost-cutting measures (meet the new dungeon, same as the old dungeon), the corridor structure and the severely limited pc camera (which still made the game play better than DAO on consoles). Both of these are either simply bad design, or a desperate attempt to make a good game without the budget required for it. The cognitive dissonance here is that due to their initial bias of "it's now popular, so it must suck" people call the game out for the wrong things, especially when they aren't going into the details. I think there's more than one trap to fall into, here, and a lot of old school rpg elitists have fallen into the pit of not being able to tell where the problems are.

 

Bioware have pulled themselves out of slumps before (abovementioned NWN will be agreed by most, if not Volo), and the extra 3-6 months given to ME3 is certainly a sign that they've realised they need time to deliver the quality product for which they (still for the moment) are known.

Personally I was talking BW general and not DA2 in particular. DA2 was a flop and no doubt due to issues beyond BW's new direction, what I mean it's that they have steadily been moving away from traditional CRPGs and more into Action/RPG. Sadly because of that their storytelling quality has suffered a bit.

My own personal Bias regarding DA2 was that I like the general direction they took with DA:O, which they destroyed on the sequel.

[GhostofAnakin]

I've been re-playing ME2 in preparation for ME3 (even though it's still another 6 to 9 months away) and came to the conclusion that hopefully ME3 incorporates the good portions from ME1 and ME2, while eliminating the fluff.

 

In ME1, the main quest, while cliche and pretty simplistic, worked for this type of game. But the party interaction wasn't very satisfying, and their characters weren't very fleshed out. In ME2, the main quest was kind of dumb, culminating in that stupid Terminator-esque robot battle at the end. But what ME2 did well, IMO, was the party member quests, from the recruitment of said party members, to their individual loyalty quests.

 

So in general, I'd be more than happy with ME3 if it had something like ME1's main quest combined with ME2's party/side quests.

[Oblarg]

Don't hold your breath for a good plot in ME3 - all the information thus far points to it being as bad or worse than ME2.

[Orogun01]

Don't hold your breath for a good plot in ME3 - all the information thus far points to it being as bad or worse than ME2.

Blasphemy, BW is just doing away with all those unnecessary things like: continuity, suspension of disbelief, plot, conflict. It's going to be a landmark in the history of games.

A game without a story.

[Tale]

unnecessary things like:... suspension of disbelief

This one's real valuable to the Mass Effect crowd.

[HoonDing]

Don't hold your breath for a good plot in ME3 - all the information thus far points to it being as bad or worse than ME2.

Blasphemy, BW is just doing away with all those unnecessary things like: continuity, suspension of disbelief, plot, conflict. It's going to be a landmark in the history of games.

A game without a story.

All that matters is blue babies.

[WorstUsernameEver]

IGN: "Mass Effect 3 plays like a shooter"

[HoonDing]

IGN: "Mass Effect 3 plays like a shooter"